I have concerns. Like to hear the more positive people's views.

 

Did it seem at all like there was a lack of open receivers, despite some of the bigger gains and 300 yards passing (I might need to go watch the game again)?

 

And does it seem that our offense still labors to get the points they do? I mean I'm watching the OU v. Louisiana Tech game and maybe LT is not as good as Rice, but OU just makes it look like it's so easy. They look faster. I just use this game as an example but I've seen it in some other games too.

By the way Erick, that's a pretty high bar you set with "game changer"

 

I'd love for you to identify the game changers among the last three draft's cornerbacks.

 

If you aren't drafting a elite cornerback who can play his position at an extremely high level because he isn't a "game changer" (your definition, and I'd love for you to explain it better) then I'm not sure you'd last very long as a GM or scout.

 

Furthermore, I'm not really sure you quite understand the significance of a cornerback who can play his position at a high level.

 

 

You are elite at being condescending.

You are elite at being condescending.

 

He takes it to a whole notha level. I have noticed that the more pessimistic posters are easier to have a conversation with than the ultra optimist. I consider myself to be optimistic too.

When your a CB, INTs are an important stat. Just how YPC is important with RBs and sacks are with DL. It is not the end all be all. If he got 3 INTs last season, I wouldn't point to a corner who had 4 and say the guy with 4 is better. My point is that if you are trying to label a CB as 'shut down' or 'elite' and he has 0 interceptions against a QB for an entire season that he played and started, I ain't buying it.

 

This is sooo funny because this is so similar to when I was on here saying Armando Allen isn't that great and every domer jumped all over me defending his 4.2 ypc performance.

 

Again, not saying the kid isn't good. He just isn't elite. He isn't a game changer. And much like I told you guys with Allen "Wait until we get an elite back" (and now, no one would claim AA could touch Folston or Bryant), I will say it again. JUST WAIT, until we get an elite CB on this team and you will see what "shut down" really means.

 

YPC for a RB is completely different than sacks for a defensive end and INTs for a corner. I won't accuse you of being a box score guy because I don't know you, but the INT argument is simply not factual. Are you familiar with Nnamdi Asomugha? He had one great season in the NFL interception wise (2007, 8 INTs), and after that QBs refused to throw to his side of the field. The next 4 years combined he had 3 INTs. At that point in time, many considered him the best corner in the league. I would say if QBs are afraid to throw your way, your INT stats are not gonna be great because you don't have the chances. You also used the argument that Rutgers went 6-6 so him shutting down Brandon Coleman isn't considered "shutting down" an elite receiver. Who cares if the team went 6-6? Brandon Coleman was considered an elite receiver at the college level, and had Russell by 6 inches. If he comes back to ND, I challenge you to look at more than just his stats and key in on him while he's playing. Is he perfect? no. Has he shutdown every single guy he has ever played against? no.

 

PS, One thing to consider is that he has only been playing the position for 2 years. He is only going to get better. We haven't seen the best from him as a player.

Edited September 3, 201410 yr by LasVegasIrish

YPC for a RB is completely different than sacks for a defensive end and INTs for a corner. I won't accuse you of being a box score guy because I don't know you, but the INT argument is simply not factual. Are you familiar with Nnamdi Asomugha? He had one great season in the NFL interception wise (2007, 8 INTs), and after that QBs refused to throw to his side of the field. The next 4 years combined he had 3 INTs. At that point in time, many considered him the best corner in the league. I would say if QBs are afraid to throw your way, your INT stats are not gonna be great because you don't have the chances. You also used the argument that Rutgers went 6-6 so him shutting down Brandon Coleman isn't considered "shutting down" an elite receiver. Who cares if the team went 6-6? Brandon Coleman was considered an elite receiver at the college level, and had Russell by 6 inches. If he comes back to ND, I challenge you to look at more than just his stats and key in on him while he's playing. Is he perfect? no. Has he shutdown every single guy he has ever played against? no.

 

PS, One thing to consider is that he has only been playing the position for 2 years. He is only going to get better. We haven't seen the best from him as a player.

 

FYI look at the difference between playing corner in the NFL vs college. Hashmarks bro. You cant compare the two.

FYI look at the difference between playing corner in the NFL vs college. Hashmarks bro. You cant compare the two.

 

The point remains the same. Interceptions don't define if you are a "shut down" corner or not.

The point remains the same. Interceptions don't define if you are a "shut down" corner or not.

 

This is silly. Again, teams don't stop throwing to one side unless you have proven to make some damage. One of the biggest impact plays a corner can make in the pass game is an interception.

 

Bottom line... dude has more to prove before he gets drafted.

This is silly. Again, teams don't stop throwing to one side unless you have proven to make some damage. One of the biggest impact plays a corner can make in the pass game is an interception.

 

Bottom line... dude has more to prove before he gets drafted.

 

Did I say an interception wasn't an impact play? Everyone has more to prove before they get drafted...

 

Damage doesn't mean interceptions either. A QB isn't going to throw at a guy if he consistently breaks the play up or causes an incomplete pass.

 

What would you rather have:

 

A guy who gets thrown at 10 times with 1 pick and 6-7 completions and big plays against him?

 

or

 

A guy who gets thrown at 10 times with 2-3 completions, no big plays against him and no INTs?

 

But you are right, this is silly. It's obviously a pointless argument that we will never agree on.

My perspective on the term "shutdown corner" has always been a guy who is on his receiver like glue, legally, with excellent press/bump and run coverage skills, fast and fluid, with an excellent eye for the ball. If he's not picking it off, he's breaking up the pass more often than his assignments are catching it. It takes a lot to be a shutdown corner - KR could eventually be there but is he really there right now?

My perspective on the term "shutdown corner" has always been a guy who is on his receiver like glue, legally, with excellent press/bump and run coverage skills, fast and fluid, with an excellent eye for the ball. If he's not picking it off, he's breaking up the pass more often than his assignments are catching it. It takes a lot to be a shutdown corner - KR could eventually be there but is he really there right now?

 

I would say he has more games than not that he is doing exactly what you said. Agreed with your take on a shut down corner. Russell is not perfect, and still has a lot to learn at the position (but so does everyone at the college level). He has only been playing the position for 2 years though, and look how great he already is...

 

I think BK said it best when he stated that you don't replace a guy like Russell. I bet the coaches, teammates and apposing players consider him elite. He is a guy you have to gameplan for.

Fair enough. To be totally honest, I don't generally key on one player during or after a game so I'm just asking for curiosity's sake Thanks!

Fair enough. To be totally honest, I don't generally key on one player during or after a game so I'm just asking for curiosity's sake Thanks!

 

I don't usually key in while watching the game initially, but when rewatching or looking at articles and stuff like that. Nowadays, so many articles highlight guys in certain moments that you can find a bunch of stuff on specific players. I will be interested in seeing how Mayock, Kiper and McShay evaluate his film come draft time.

You are elite at being condescending.

 

I apologize for that, seriously.

 

I guess my point is, you can absolutely be elite without rising to "game changer", which is reserved for only a precious few.

 

Out of the last five drafts, how many game-changing cornerbacks are we even talking about? The kid from LSU who plays for the Cardinals comes to mind. Aside from that?

 

But that doesn't mean there haven't been some elite CB's drafted, guys who can step onto the field and play at an extremely high level early in their careers.

 

KR is ascending to that level player.

 

And he is absolutely the best cornerback ND's had in a LONG time. He doesn't single-handedly change a game, but he is a tremendously skilled defender and one of the best at what he does in the country. And when it's all said and done, the NFL will come calling in a premium round.

 

All that said, I'm genuinely sorry for coming off like an a-hole.

 

And I mean that.