nico7980 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Now this story seems to be a little old as far as the infraction goes.. But this guy who may have been a prof. at UM.. Seems to want to get this out for some reason.. Heck. He's even got links to everything that he's saying.. http://www.washtenawwatchdogs.com/police-report.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echo88 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Well, I don't buy the Lizzy account of what happened at ND, but remember that we have a player starting for our squad who was accused of the same thing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlotteND Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Well, I don't buy the Lizzy account of what happened at ND, but remember that we have a player starting for our squad who was accused of the same thing..... No we don't. There was never an accusation of rape, in Seeberg's account or in any police report of the incident. It's bad enough when the media repeats **** like that, but its worse when even our own supposed fans can't get it straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico7980 Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 ND got blasted by everyone for something not as egregious as this. It was everywhere. Now the shoe's on the other foot. Just curious as to how those same ppl that was killing ND. Especially on the some Um sites. What they are saying now. And all of a sudden. It's not a big deal. Huh.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishguy773 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 No we don't. There was never an accusation of rape, in Seeberg's account or in any police report of the incident. It's bad enough when the media repeats **** like that, but its worse when even our own supposed fans can't get it straight. Sorry. Sexual assault. That's nothing anyway, right? But in he Lizzy case, she was harassed after the fact by fellow football players, as well. Sure, the Michigan claims do appear worse, but our house isn't virginal in this kind of situation, either. Claims and appearances of institutional coverups, and whatnot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaster Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) No we don't. There was never an accusation of rape, in Seeberg's account or in any police report of the incident. It's bad enough when the media repeats **** like that, but its worse when even our own supposed fans can't get it straight. Wow, I thought fan denial was bad at the time. Apparently it's even worse now. Give a deceased girl and her parents a little respect and at least acknowledge the accusation. Echo's whole point anyway is that we need to be careful how many stones we cast, especially considering the scrutiny our current team members have endured over he past few years. We have our controversies, everyone else has some too, and hopefully everyone faces them straight up and makes no attempt to excuse, justify, or cover up (the way you just did). Edited August 21, 2013 by smaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaster Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 What did CharlotteND say that was wrong? Really???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echo88 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 No we don't. There was never an accusation of rape, in Seeberg's account or in any police report of the incident. It's bad enough when the media repeats **** like that, but its worse when even our own supposed fans can't get it straight. Lol yes there was buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaverND Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Wait a week or we/you are no better than them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaster Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 What did CharlotteND say that was wrong? What did CharlotteND say that was factually incorrect? You realize these are two different questions, right? But since you lump them, I'll lump my answers: - Saying there was no accusation. Call it rape, sexual assault, whatever...the accusation was absolutely there. - Saying I'm only a "supposed" fan because I don't share his (I'm assuming *his*) perspective. That's an old trick on these boards. - Saying the rest of us can't "get it straight", as if he is somehow privy to information about that incident that the rest of us are not. - Generally trying to minimize the Seeberg situation to make it incomparable to the one this thread was initially about. - Calling said situation unworthy of press attention. Chances are every single person on this board knows a rape/assault victim, whether we realize it or not. One of the biggest daggers for the victims is that manner in which they are questioned, brushed aside, and even blamed. A couple sacks in a game can make the news, but an alleged heinous act against a woman can't? As far as this Michigan incident, there's obviously quite a bit of documentation, but I can only watch and hope that justice is served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlotteND Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Sorry. Sexual assault. That's nothing anyway, right? But in he Lizzy case, she was harassed after the fact by fellow football players, as well. Sure, the Michigan claims do appear worse, but our house isn't virginal in this kind of situation, either. Claims and appearances of institutional coverups, and whatnot. Did anything in my post say alleged sexual assault was nothing? All I said was that what our player was accused of was not the same as what the Michigan player was accused of and that echo should get his facts straight. There are degrees of right and wrong. Violence against women is wrong in any form. However, unwanted touching of a breast is not the same as rape. Both are wrong, but one is worse than the other. The world isn't black and white. I do agree that any harassment after the fact was unwarranted and unacceptable. We have our controversies, everyone else has some too, and hopefully everyone faces them straight up and makes no attempt to excuse, justify, or cover up (the way you just did). I agree with the first part, but nothing I said was an attempt to cover up anything. Rather I'd like to see actual facts discussed if we're going to talk about issues like this. Of course in a case like this where facts are in dispute, you'd have to discuss the info presented directly from each side. Using surmised info that a third party, potentially one with an agenda, interjected into the discussion, or presenting ones own presumptions as fact is not the way something like that should be discussed. Lol yes there was buddy. I'd love to see your source on that one. Nowhere in Seeberg's complaint, university investigation, NDSP investigation, SBPD investigation, or even prosecutor's statements was rape ever even alleged. If you think I'm wrong, show me. Rather people saw reports that a sexual assault accusation was filed against an ND football player and that a rape kit was performed (standard operating procedure in any sexual assault allegation for most states) and think they can put two and two together and make sexual assault = rape. It's a tragedy that a young woman lost her life in this situation. To say that ND is protecting a rapist, as many have said, is intellectually dishonest at best, and malicious at worst. Wait a week or we/you are no better than them. That I can agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaster Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Thank you for your clarifications, Charlotte. I don't agree with everything you said, but you responded thoughtfully and we are closer together in our thinking than I previously observed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratey Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 http://www.washtenawwatchdogs.com/4/post/2013/08/the-cover-up-of-the-arrest-of-university-of-michigan-football-player-brendan-gibbons-for-rape.html This story is blowing up Ann Arbor right now. She met Gibbons at the party and at one point was sitting with him on a couch. She needed to use a bathroom, which was located on the second floor of the fraternity. Gibbons walked with her to the second floor and followed her into the bathroom. She was wearing leggings under her dress, which Gibbons tried to pull down. She said no and left the bathroom. Gibbons followed and forced her into an open bedroom. He pushed her down on the bed, grabbing onto her arm to control her (note the documentation of bruises on her arm by the police)[6]. She told him “no” multiple times. He did not use a condom and semen was found on her dress. After the rape, the woman left the Chi Psi house immediately. She called a friend who met her on the way back to her dorm. She was crying hysterically and she told her friend what had happened[7]. She reported the incident to the resident advisor of her dorm, to a university housing security officer, campus police and to Ann Arbor police. She was taken to University Hospital for a rape examination, which showed vaginal tearing. Brendan Gibbons admitted to having sex with the young woman but claimed that it was consensual. “She never asked me to stop. We were both into it.” He stated that his whole life would be ruined, the girl always wins[8]. Shortly after the woman reported the rape, she began to receive threats from Gibbons roommate and fellow football player, Taylor Lewan (now an All-American), that he would rape her again if she pressed charges against Gibbons. The threats were reported by two other football players to the Office of Student Affairs who reported them to the University police. The University police did a “wellness check” on the young woman[9] and met with Taylor Lewan. They warned Taylor Lewan not to threaten the woman again and that he might face criminal charges[10]. No criminal charges were ever filed by the campus police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 http://www.washtenawwatchdogs.com/4/post/2013/08/the-cover-up-of-the-arrest-of-university-of-michigan-football-player-brendan-gibbons-for-rape.html This story is blowing up Ann Arbor right now. What a smug, nickelback looking piece of sh*t. I can't imagine why a Place Kicker who looks like Barry Gibb would need any help getting women.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratey Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 What a smug, nickelback looking piece of sh*t. I can't imagine why a Place Kicker who looks like Barry Gibb would need any help getting women.. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/RkPiOJdYSkM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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