Recruiting long game

[davislove 0]

Kelly ( the Politician that he is) talks a lot about playing a lot of players but in reality he hasn't. Even now he's talking about wanting to play Nix and Tuitt the whole game.

 

That's all great but the problem is we're recruiting stronger and getting a backlog of talented redshirts. which may hamper some future recruiting classes.

 

take 2015, we will have about 14 players eligible for a 5th year and at this point maybe 2 or 3 have not proven themselves valuable enough to not return. (J.Brown, Hardy, Robasa)

 

Springman,councell, DD, Hanratty, amir, golson, grace, schmidt, farley and martin are keepers

 

If chase was good enough to play as a frosh-- if/when healthy he's probably too good to let go.

 

So either our future recruiting classes are:

 

(A) gonna be so good that we can afford to let contributors hit the road

 

(B) going to feature a lot of youngsters on special teams and garbage time

 

© survival of the fittest, over recruit positions during a cycle and let the cream rise and the others transfer

 

Option C looks to be happening with Safety and WR.

[corysold 0]

Good point, but I think this stuff has a way of working itself out.

 

Besides, I'm not convinced your entire list of potential 5th years are all definitive keepers.

 

Hanratty - Hasn't started a game yet and is now hurt. Who knows how he ends up.

 

Grace - Hasn't started a game yet and seemingly can't displace Fox/Carlo permanently, two guys who are good, but not great.

 

Councell - Supposed to have the tools, but again, hasn't played yet and plays the same spot as Jaylon Smith, might be passed over.

 

Joe Schmidt is a former walk-on who is providing depth at ILB right now. I don't see him playing his way into a starting role.

 

The other guys I'd probably agree with (and who knows, maybe all of the above become starters as well).

 

But to your point, this is a great thing, but not something I'm sure ND can overcome the same way Alabama can. If by his Jr. year, if a player isn't contributing at Alabama, he's "hurt" and medicaled or gotten rid of some other way. It isn't coincidence that year after year, Alabama, Georgia, LSU etc. have 8-10 man senior classes. If you aren't playing, you are gone.

 

I'm not sure that will work at ND, which makes it a 5th year game as you alluded to.

[davislove 0]

Good point, but I think this stuff has a way of working itself out.

 

Besides, I'm not convinced your entire list of potential 5th years are all definitive keepers.

 

Hanratty - Hasn't started a game yet and is now hurt. Who knows how he ends up.

 

Grace - Hasn't started a game yet and seemingly can't displace Fox/Carlo permanently, two guys who are good, but not great.

 

Councell - Supposed to have the tools, but again, hasn't played yet and plays the same spot as Jaylon Smith, might be passed over.

 

Joe Schmidt is a former walk-on who is providing depth at ILB right now. I don't see him playing his way into a starting role.

 

The other guys I'd probably agree with (and who knows, maybe all of the above become starters as well).

 

But to your point, this is a great thing, but not something I'm sure ND can overcome the same way Alabama can. If by his Jr. year, if a player isn't contributing at Alabama, he's "hurt" and medicaled or gotten rid of some other way. It isn't coincidence that year after year, Alabama, Georgia, LSU etc. have 8-10 man senior classes. If you aren't playing, you are gone.

 

I'm not sure that will work at ND, which makes it a 5th year game as you alluded to.

 

I don't think is just knicked up and should be fine. He's in the hunt for a starting spot. You can't turn away an experienced Olinemen. I'm more concerned with heggarty then conner.

 

Grace may not start this year but probably will the following season. He'd be another contributing vet in what appears thus far to be a thin ILB.

 

councell played last season. I expect him to get passed over by smith, but what happens if smith gets hurt? I'm sure the staff would want and experienced guy to be the next man in.

 

you don't need to be a starter to get a 5th year. Schmidt has already pass some scholarship guys on the dept chart and like I said before ILB is thin.

 

Those SEC schools are great at thinning the herd. Of course we are gonna have some injuries, and transfers to open up some slots but this particular group (our JR's) seems to have an unusual amount of useful 5th year options. Our Sophomore group have 6 guys. 7 now if you count baratti but thats manageable.

[yikityyakirish 0]

Anybody else think medical hardships will increase at ND?

[VCDomer 75]

Kelly ( the Politician that he is) talks a lot about playing a lot of players but in reality he hasn't. Even now he's talking about wanting to play Nix and Tuitt the whole game.

 

That's all great but the problem is we're recruiting stronger and getting a backlog of talented redshirts. which may hamper some future recruiting classes.

 

take 2015, we will have about 14 players eligible for a 5th year and at this point maybe 2 or 3 have not proven themselves valuable enough to not return. (J.Brown, Hardy, Robasa)

 

Springman,councell, DD, Hanratty, amir, golson, grace, schmidt, farley and martin are keepers

 

If chase was good enough to play as a frosh-- if/when healthy he's probably too good to let go.

 

So either our future recruiting classes are:

 

(A) gonna be so good that we can afford to let contributors hit the road

 

(B) going to feature a lot of youngsters on special teams and garbage time

 

© survival of the fittest, over recruit positions during a cycle and let the cream rise and the others transfer

 

Option C looks to be happening with Safety and WR.

 

As we build QUALITY depth C is (and should be) the option. I agree with Corysold in that I dont see as many of those players you listed getting offered 5th years. BK and staff have done a great job in recruting, but it can only be sustained with winning seasons. And by that I mean 9-10 win seasons with BCS bowl victories.

[VCDomer 75]

Anybody else think medical hardships will increase at ND?

 

Can you get one for a sick nana?

[REMND 0]

I start with the theme that you are better off with a player's 5th year after they know the scheme and have the extra layer of armor than burning a first year just so they can see the field. Guys like Jaylon Smith and some of our early entries are different since they are ready to contribute now.

 

OLmen often need the extra time to redefine their bodies and get the requisite strength. We have a pretty good history of 5th year OLmen I think.

 

Some DL are that way. I am hoping Jarron Jones follows that path and really comes on his 3rd year on.

 

I think it is a fluid situation where you do not waste a year of eligibility so they can see the field. Then the players has a chance of making a real contribution his 5th year if he earns it.

 

Every year our needs will be different. The players eligible may not want a 5th year (Cierre Wood). They may not be as good as a potential new recruits. They may not get offered a 5th year. They may get injured before their 5th year arrives.

 

I think the staff will use your A, B and C and more to address the 5th year situation which will be fluid.

 

I do not want to play a newbie unless they are ready to contribute now or we have a depth problem and we are relying on them for the next year. That means we are going to have tough 5th year decisions to answer every year.

[NDhoosier 1,336]

Transfers are bound to happen and it doesnt mean that the school is doing something wrong. Alabama gets transfers because kids want to play. Some recruits dont cut it or play as good as projected, so the underclassman will rise above them and take their spot.

[davislove 0]

We have 8 safeties on our roster.

 

7 of them have at least 3 years remaining while the other guy has 2. I think ND over recruited to improve their odds of landing good safeties. Would not surprise me if some of them are now getting the cold shoulder from the coaches to nudge them from transferring. I mean didn't they do that to mattingly in the hopes he de commit? And wasn't Gunner kinda done the same way?

 

PS: NDHoosier, go ahead and call the internet police because I'm stealing your signature.

[REMND 0]

We have 8 safeties on our roster.

 

7 of them have at least 3 years remaining while the other guy has 2. I think ND over recruited to improve their odds of landing good safeties. Would not surprise me if some of them are now getting the cold shoulder from the coaches to nudge them from transferring. I mean didn't they do that to mattingly in the hopes he de commit? And wasn't Gunner kinda done the same way?

 

PS: NDHoosier, go ahead and call the internet police because I'm stealing your signature.

 

That is odd. We are probably a little over stocked at RB and Safety. At RB, we at least can move them to slot with guys like Amir, Mahone, and Folston.

 

8 safeties! We only got one last year. I think 4 are sophomores eligibility wise. Turner, Barratti, Badger and Shumate are all sophomores.

 

Eilar and Farley are juniors but he has a 5th years.

 

Collinsworth is a senior but he has a 5th year.

 

7-8 is the right number though but they are not evenly distributed.

[NDhoosier 1,336]

PS: NDHoosier, go ahead and call the internet police because I'm stealing your signature.

 

You better not. I will abuse my power, violate your constitutional rights, and make it hurt longer than it should. I know people, FBI will be knocking on your door! :ballchain:

 

Saw it on IE, I guess it is picture going around from SubwayDomer.

 

7 of them have at least 3 years remaining while the other guy has 2. I think ND over recruited to improve their odds of landing good safeties. Would not surprise me if some of them are now getting the cold shoulder from the coaches to nudge them from transferring. I mean didn't they do that to mattingly in the hopes he de commit? And wasn't Gunner kinda done the same way?

 

couple things here.

1) Gunner was NOT kicked/shunned out, he wanted out because he realized that he wasnt going to start for 3 years. Remember, he transferred before the Golson incident.

2) While Mattingly was given the cold shoulder last recruiting cycle, I doubt coaches treat current players the same way. Mattingly was free to still go wherever he wanted, if a coach did that to a player on the roster, then it would be pretty low because the player is bound to the school (unless your name is Vanderdoes) and if you break that contract, there are consequences.

Edited August 16, 2013 by NDhoosier

[davislove 0]

That is odd. We are probably a little over stocked at RB and Safety. At RB, we at least can move them to slot with guys like Amir, Mahone, and Folston.

 

8 safeties! We only got one last year. I think 4 are sophomores eligibility wise. Turner, Barratti, Badger and Shumate are all sophomores.

 

Eilar and Farley are juniors but he has a 5th years.

 

Collinsworth is a senior but he has a 5th year.

 

7-8 is the right number though but they are not evenly distributed.

 

redfield, turner and badger still have 4 years remaining. I don't think you can take 2 safeties per year. You'll always have a corner or wr who can convert. You'd run out of schollies quick carrying that many players who won't ever see the field.

[davislove 0]

You better not. I will abuse my power, violate your constitutional rights, and make it hurt longer than it should. I know people, FBI will be knocking on your door! :ballchain:

 

Saw it on IE, I guess it is picture going around from SubwayDomer.

 

 

 

couple things here.

1) Gunner was NOT kicked/shunned out, he wanted out because he realized that he wasnt going to start for 3 years. Remember, he transferred before the Golson incident.

2) While Mattingly was given the cold shoulder last recruiting cycle, I doubt coaches treat current players the same way. Mattingly was free to still go wherever he wanted, if a coach did that to a player on the roster, then it would be pretty low because the player is bound to the school (unless your name is Vanderdoes) and if you break that contract, there are consequences.

 

Fine, I'll leave it be. I don't want YOUR PEOPLE after me:grin:

 

While I don't doubt Golson being the starter was A reason he left ND. He also didn't get along with coach martin. Since martin took over as OC and QB coach, you can tell that he wants a particular type of qb (dual threat) and gunner was not it. So yeah, I think the writing was on the wall for gunner that he was not really gonna get a fair look.

 

As far as coaches giving the cold shoulder, they do what they have to do. Some of these 5th year guys who don't get asked back are the same ones who claim the coaches jumped and cheered when they committed, and told them they were exactly what ND needed. I recall michael floyd and teo being called 6 star recruits when kelly wanted them to return. I'm sure CBK could have talked wood into staying if he really wanted him back.

[chirodomer 47]

Did anyone see that Bama put a kid out on medical hardship and he is going to start for savannah state. We are on an in level playing field.

Edited August 16, 2013 by chirodomer

[davislove 0]

Did anyone see that Bama put a kid out on medical hardship and he is going to start for savannah state. We are on an in level playing field.

 

Dan wenger?

[VCDomer 75]

Fine, I'll leave it be. I don't want YOUR PEOPLE after me:grin:

 

While I don't doubt Golson being the starter was A reason he left ND. He also didn't get along with coach martin. Since martin took over as OC and QB coach, you can tell that he wants a particular type of qb (dual threat) and gunner was not it. So yeah, I think the writing was on the wall for gunner that he was not really gonna get a fair look.

 

As far as coaches giving the cold shoulder, they do what they have to do. Some of these 5th year guys who don't get asked back are the same ones who claim the coaches jumped and cheered when they committed, and told them they were exactly what ND needed. I recall michael floyd and teo being called 6 star recruits when kelly wanted them to return. I'm sure CBK could have talked wood into staying if he really wanted him back.

 

Really? Are you joking? I may have missed the tongue in cheek inference, but I dont think that Wood would have stayed if he was given special invitation by God.

[davislove 0]

Really? Are you joking? I may have missed the tongue in cheek inference, but I dont think that Wood would have stayed if he was given special invitation by God.

 

I was serious.

 

We all know kelly and wood were not the tightest but I think the staff could have sold him on staying and raising his draft status by being the featured back if they really wanted him.

 

Also this subject is about coaches shunning certain players for whatever reason. Wood may have wanted to leave to support his child but that's another context.