Break Down Michigan For Me

[OklahomaIrish 0]

Guys, this game is HUGE. Maybe there will be a bigger game or two down the road, but this can get us really pumped or shoot us down. Some of you seem to think we will have no problem with them, well, we have thought that many times only to struggle mightily. I NEVER take this game for granted. Do you want to have a special year?? We have to beat these guys in the big house.

 

If we had Golson, I would be extremely confident. But as everyone knows we are being lead by Tommy barring something unforseen. I worry about our offense, but Tommy has been here before. He knows he can't turn the ball over. Maybe it is Devin Gardner turning the ball over this time.

 

I understand Michigan lost a lot of players on defense. Can somebody be more specific. I did see that their safeties are 5' 11' and 6' tall. I would like to see Niklas and Corey Robinson match up with them.

 

I love our defense. I think it will be better than last year. Does that mean we hold them to 6 points again?? Not exactly. How many times did Denard turn it over last year?? Oh this game will be gigantic. I can't wait. Temple is a nice little tune up. Michigan decides which way we are headed. Let's don't start out in a hole. Let's whoop their asses and get this train rolling.

[OKCIrish99 3]

Indeed a huge game Tim that will be in a very hostile atmosphere. Their defense did lose a lot players but they still have some talent there. Believe they have a good nose guard like us. Gardner is the wild card in this one. He's going to want this game bad. Heard all kinds of reports on him, favorable and unfavorable. He's got a big arm, slow release and erratic accuracy at times. He can get hot though. He's big and can run some.

 

UM's rushing attack concerns me some with their backs. Don't be surprised if Derrick Green (2013 rivals #1 back) gets in the mix. Him along with Touissant can run. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned into Green v. Bryant in this one. All in all, should be a good game. Lady luck always stings us in this one up to last year. A must win game. I will miss playing scUM during the upcoming hiatus.

 

Go Irish!!

Edited August 12, 2013 by OKCIrish99

[onemanwolfpack 0]

I am not an expert on Michigan's Defense, but happy to share what I know...

In short, they replace most of their Dline but expect to be fine on the defensive side of the line. This seems optimistic to me, since Craig Roh was a very solid DE. The other departing lineman (Campbell) was a highly ranked recruit who was a periennial disappointment. The biggest issue they face is that Jake Ryan is out with an ACL injury until late this upcoming season. Jake Ryan was the leader and most distruptive player in my opinion. They have linebacker experience, but sorely miss Jake Ryan on the edge. The secondary has pretty much everyone back (except for Kovachs a multi-year safety starter) and will likely be the strength of the defense. With a strong secondary and Greg Mattison as the coordinator, I would expect a very blitz heavy scheme from UM against ND.

 

Here is a link below which has a fairly optimistic take on the defensive line for 2013.

 

http://michigan.icito.com/season-preview-michigans-defensive-line-could-be-more-explosive-with-frank-clark-entering-lineup-11/

[nd1baby 0]

I know what I'll be saying the whole game...Rees is a god!....Rees is a bum!...back and forth.

[echo88 74]

Naw, Ill let our football team do that....

[onemanwolfpack 0]

Indeed a huge game Tim that will be in a very hostile atmosphere. Their defense did lose a lot players but they still have some talent there. Believe they have a good nose guard like us. Gardner is the wild card in this one. He's going to want this game bad. Heard all kinds of reports on him, favorable and unfavorable. He's got a big arm, slow release and erratic accuracy at times. He can get hot though. He's big and can run some.

 

UM's rushing attack concerns me some with their backs. Don't be surprised if Derrick Green (2013 rivals #1 back) gets in the mix. Him along with Touissant can run. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned into Green v. Bryant in this one. All in all, should be a good game. Lady luck always stings us in this one up to last year. A must win game. I will miss playing scUM during the upcoming hiatus.

 

Go Irish!!

 

Agree with what you said here about Gardner. He can move, but is more of a traditional style QB. Garner is streaky, but doesn't have any big threats coming back at WR (Gallon is best returning starter). One key here is that Michigan shifted to a pro style attack during the latter part of last year. The ND defense under Diaco has typically fared well against that type of offensive scheme. That, plus they replace the entire interior of their line (both guards and center) this year. Their tackles are back and Lewan will probably be the best Tackle ND faces this year, but I don't see how they handle Nix on the inside. I can't see Michigan putting up many points, even with the advantage of being a primetime game at home.

[IanY77 4]

Agree with what you said here about Gardner. He can move, but is more of a traditional style QB. Garner is streaky, but doesn't have any big threats coming back at WR (Gallon is best returning starter). One key here is that Michigan shifted to a pro style attack during the latter part of last year. The ND defense under Diaco has typically fared well against that type of offensive scheme. That, plus they replace the entire interior of their line (both guards and center) this year. Their tackles are back and Lewan will probably be the best Tackle ND faces this year, but I don't see how they handle Nix on the inside. I can't see Michigan putting up many points, even with the advantage of being a primetime game at home.

 

I've casually looked at boards of teams that will face Michigan, and the general consensus is "Control Gallon and [we] win". Good point about Diaco and pro style attacks. While there may be individual players on UM that do well, I think ND has the advantage on both lines vs their opposing lines.

[OklahomaIrish 0]

Now I have a little bit more to have an opinion. To me, the thing I worried about the most was Denard and his ability to run. He's gone. I also feel a lot more comfortable with the standardized pro offense. Man I'm glad we don't run that crap.

 

It seems apparent to me that their defense takes a small step backwards from last year. I would have to give an edge to our offensive line and that is really important. I think our offense will actually be more diverse than theirs and I especially want to see the hurry up. This could greatly help Tommy.

 

The biggest reason for optimism seems to be our defensive line against their offensive line. I see pressure coming. Look out for Shembo and Tuitt. Their strength on offense is their running game, but it won't go anywhere against our front seven. If we don't turn the ball over and they have to go a long ways, they are in trouble.

 

Big plays make up for a multitude of sins. We can protect Tommy. We have some mismatches down field. Tommy is a bit stronger and more confident. Look for him to put the ball up to DeVaris, Brown or even Corey Robinson. We will take some shots, you can bank on it, and I think we hit a couple of them.

[Scotty88 0]

Big plays make up for a multitude of sins.

 

So do small, almost nonexistent ones, ask OKC native Riley Cooper

 

Game is huge but what scares me most is the environment.

 

I'd suppose Manti could rally the troops by giving some thoughts on the aftermath of our last visit to that place.

 

I love catching them early, let's derail their season.

[Rattlesnake 54]

UM's rushing attack concerns me some with their backs. Don't be surprised if Derrick Green (2013 rivals #1 back) gets in the mix. Him along with Touissant can run.

 

The only way they'll run the football on us is with busted plays and Gardner scrambling - and they'll barely be able to do that. We will win in the trenches, no doubt in my mind.. just ask Le'Veon Bell and Stepfan Taylor.

[corysold 0]

The only way they'll run the football on us is with busted plays and Gardner scrambling - and they'll barely be able to do that. We will win in the trenches, no doubt in my mind.. just ask Le'Veon Bell and Stepfan Taylor.

 

Yeah, I think ND is due for a 35-10 type of win. Dominate both sides of the LOS on National TV in a hostile environment, ala Michigan St. last year. Jump into the top 5 and send Michigan on a downward style, similar to what Alabama did to them last season.

 

I know the last few games have been close, but the better team can only find ways to keep games close for so long before the cream rises to the top. I think that happens this year.

[IrishOrDie 0]

I don't mean to underestimate Michigan and there's a lot of time before this game so a lot can still happen, but I just think we win this one handily. We should have destroyed Mich last year and that was with Denard. Our d-line handles Mich's o-line. They'll be one dimensional at that point and I just don't see a way that Gardner torches us up without a run game.

 

I think this is the year we wrap our hands around old Skunkbear's throat and strangle 'em to death.

[DREWGOOSE 1]

should we be scared of these two?

 

[IrishOrDie 0]

should we be scared of these two?

 

[ATTACH]607[/ATTACH]

 

Perhaps for other reasons than football...

[ndomer4 532]

I agree 100 percent Oklahoma, for as long as I've been an ND fan Michigan has always been a pain in the ***. Frankly I could care less about who they lost, no matter how bad Michigan is they always play us tough. Even in 2008 they were coming back on us but they kept shooting themselves in the foot.

 

I`m not too sure on Michigan players, at safety I`m pretty sure they lost the walk on Kovacs. They always have a committee at runningback which is alright, the oline is good (lewan especially), receivers alright, Jake Ryan is a good pass rusher, and they always pull in a good recruiting class.

 

Michigan seems like they`re a team who`s gonna be in and out of the top 25. I can`t imagine how detrimental a loss to them will be for our season. If we win that game we`re 2-0 in the top ten and on our way to a national championship. We lose we go to 1-1, drop to the late teens or 20`s, lose confidence, and are a loss or 2 away from not going to a bcs bowl at all.

 

Expectations are high and we need this win if we plan to accomplish them. We also have no clue how tough some of these teams on the schedule will end up being. USC, Oklahoma, Michigan, Michigan State, Arizona State, BYU, and Pitt are all pretty good teams. If a few of those teams or all end up being better than people thought we could end up with an even more brutal schedule and having to run a gauntlet already at 1-1.

 

Let`s just say we can`t afford to lose this game.

[irish21 0]

I agree 100 percent Oklahoma, for as long as I've been an ND fan Michigan has always been a pain in the ***. Frankly I could care less about who they lost, no matter how bad Michigan is they always play us tough. Even in 2008 they were coming back on us but they kept shooting themselves in the foot.

 

I`m not too sure on Michigan players, at safety I`m pretty sure they lost the walk on Kovacs. They always have a committee at runningback which is alright, the oline is good (lewan especially), receivers alright, Jake Ryan is a good pass rusher, and they always pull in a good recruiting class.

 

Michigan seems like they`re a team who`s gonna be in and out of the top 25. I can`t imagine how detrimental a loss to them will be for our season. If we win that game we`re 2-0 in the top ten and on our way to a national championship. We lose we go to 1-1, drop to the late teens or 20`s, lose confidence, and are a loss or 2 away from not going to a bcs bowl at all.

 

Expectations are high and we need this win if we plan to accomplish them. We also have no clue how tough some of these teams on the schedule will end up being. USC, Oklahoma, Michigan, Michigan State, Arizona State, BYU, and Pitt are all pretty good teams. If a few of those teams or all end up being better than people thought we could end up with an even more brutal schedule and having to run a gauntlet already at 1-1.

 

Let`s just say we can`t afford to lose this game.

 

Jake Ryan is gone for the year with an ACL injury. Our OL should handle their front.

[ndomer4 532]

Jake Ryan is gone for the year with an ACL injury. Our OL should handle their front.

 

I was sitting by a Michigan fan for the ND game and he talked about Jake Ryan like he was the end all be all. Unfortunate injury since I just had one that killed my season so I feel for him.

 

I don`t think they have a stout front 7 but they stifled our run game last year, that can`t happen again.

[piratey 6]

Guys, this game is HUGE. Maybe there will be a bigger game or two down the road, but this can get us really pumped or shoot us down. Some of you seem to think we will have no problem with them, well, we have thought that many times only to struggle mightily. I NEVER take this game for granted. Do you want to have a special year?? We have to beat these guys in the big house.

 

If we had Golson, I would be extremely confident. But as everyone knows we are being lead by Tommy barring something unforseen. I worry about our offense, but Tommy has been here before. He knows he can't turn the ball over. Maybe it is Devin Gardner turning the ball over this time.

 

I understand Michigan lost a lot of players on defense. Can somebody be more specific. I did see that their safeties are 5' 11' and 6' tall. I would like to see Niklas and Corey Robinson match up with them.

 

I love our defense. I think it will be better than last year. Does that mean we hold them to 6 points again?? Not exactly. How many times did Denard turn it over last year?? Oh this game will be gigantic. I can't wait. Temple is a nice little tune up. Michigan decides which way we are headed. Let's don't start out in a hole. Let's whoop their asses and get this train rolling.

 

Hmm where to start...Well let's start at Defense and break down why it's going to be a disaster in Ace Deuce. (Feel free to use any of the below, I'm putting this together during a morning of rolling meetings)

 

DEFENSIVELY

This hot mess begins and ends with the front 7. You want to talk about polar opposites, it's Michigan's front 7 to our front 7. Their front 4 is:

 

DT-Jibreel Black takes over for Will Campbell, they lose 3 inches and 30lbs at the position as Black is one of the most under sized DT's in college football at only 6'2" 278lb. This is an area of HUGE concern for the Wolverines as he is backed up by a True Freshman in Henry Poggi(reported to camp at just 260lbs) and a 3rd year walk-on Ryan Glasgow.

 

NT-Quinton Washington returns for another uninspiring year of meritocracy at the NT position. To say Michigan fans can't wait to replace this kid is an understatement. To this point, expect the 340lb Sophomore Pee-wee Pipkins to replace him by midseason. This is a reason why catching Michigan early is a key.

 

SDE-Chris Wormley proves just how far things have fallen post-RR recruiting(think Ty Willingham) He's a 3* redshirt frosh DE with a pathetic offer list. Backing him up are nothing but freshman, there is no experienced depth at the End position.

 

DE- Franky Clark steps in for the relocated Brennan Beyer...for now. Word on the street is by midseason, true frosh Taco Charlton will be replacing the much, much undersized Clark. Clark once again shows where Michigan is at in terms of defensive depth, another short(6'2") undersized, Rich Rod kid that doesn't fit Michigan's 4-3 alignment.

 

So in summarizing their defensive line, they have three new starters and only one player on the line is heavier than 289lb(Washington is a slender 301lb)

 

SAM OLB-Cam Gordon is taking over for the injured All-Everything Jake Ryan. The drop at this position is about as large as you can get as Gordon is a converted WR and backup Beyer was moved from rush DE to make up for the drop off in depth. 2 walk-on's are the remaining depth at SAM OLB. The rush side of Michigan's front 7 is pathetically weak...

 

MLB-Des Morgan shifts over from the WILL to take over the middle from Demens. Des is small...like REALLY small. He needs cleats on pavement to touch 6'1" and weighed in at 228lb. This is a former 3* kid that hasn't sniffed the inside position in 3 years. I wouldn't be surprised if Joe Bolden doesn't end up taking a majority of the snaps by seasons end.

 

WILL OLB-'Big' (James)Ross is prolly the highest ceiling and is the most talented player on their front 7, he and Pee-Wee Pipkins were the highlights of Hoke's first class defensively. While unproven, Big Ross looks to be a legit OLB.

 

So to summarize the whole front 7... they are returning 1 starter to his position from a year ago and just 2 starters overall(Morgan was WILL last year) They were the 52nd ranked team against the Run last year and a disastrous 77th in the nation in sacks. Given their youth, lack of depth and general lack of talent(of those 7, only 2 were ranked as 4*, the rest is 3* midwest talent....) I see this as among the worst front 7's we will face all year long.

 

LCB- Blake Countess is definitely a high ceiling kid we would have loved to have picked up but lacks experience as he lost last year after blowing out his knee in the first series of the first game.

 

RCB-Courtney Avery... Man... unranked, unheralded, wouldn't walk-on most schools in the B1G and an offer sheet that is almost all MAC schools. 4th year nickle back finally gets a shot at a starting gig. This is a serious cause for concern among the blue faithful.

 

SS-Jarrod Wilson comes up from the special teams to win the SS job in the spring after Jordan Kovacs graduates to get a job as a used car dealer or something.

 

FS-Thomas Gordon is an unremarkable player but the rock of this secondary. His health is key because behind him is a sea of freshmen...

 

Of the 11 starters on Michigan's defense next year, only three return to their position from the year before and just 4 starters overall. This defense is ripe for the picking in the early season, kids like Taco, Bolden and Pee-Wee will likely end up as starters by mid season(think Aaron Lynch and Tuitt in 2011) The Martin/Watt combo on the left side is going to open massive holes for a fast kid like GAIII to abuse, making cuts won't be necessary. They lack dynamic speed in the secondary, which should allow for Tommy to hit his experienced receivers on short/intermediate button/slant/fade routes.

 

Lunch time, so I'll work out an offensive look this afternoon.

Edited August 13, 2013 by piratey

[Paulo1300 0]

jeremy gallon and devin gardner will be dangerous. jeremy gallon = tj jones, he catches everything.

gardner now has a full season of reps as first team qb. barely even got any reps at QB last year before denard was injured since he was a WR.

 

watch the south carolina vs michigan game from last year and you will understand how good michigans offense can be. michigans defense looked horrible (cost them the game), but their offense looked pretty good against that SEC defense. all that people remember from that game is clowney's hit on vincent smith, but michigan really played well against that defense, and lost the game in the last 10 or so seconds.

 

derrick green is not practicing and is hurt, but should be back before their first game. he also (supposedly) came in at 240 lbs - dont know if that is good or bad for them.. toussaint will probably take the reps against us unless derrick green is just a beast. toussaint was bad last year coming off of an injury, but very good the year prior.

 

their weakness will be their d-line (never penetrated much last year and they lost their better dlinemen), missing jake ryan at LB, and interior offensive line (it was a weakness last year, and those guys graduated, so I cant see them improving much).

 

 

that said - i definitely think notre dame is better. with golson i would feel confident saying notre dame will win. without him, i think it just depends on how well rees plays.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Paulo1300

[piratey 6]

Jeremy gallon and devin gardner will be dangerous. jeremy gallon = tj jones, he catches everything.

 

watch the south carolina vs michigan game from last year and you will understand how good michigans offense can be. michigans defense looked horrible (cost them the game), but their offense looked pretty good against that SEC defense. all that people remember from that game is clowney's hit on vincent smith, but michigan really played well against that defense, and lost the game in the last 10 or so seconds.

 

Jeremy Gallon is the shortest 5'8" man on the planet and TJ is 5'11"

 

They were opportunistic in a game they should have lost by 4 scores if SCar had a healthy QB or RB...Remember that Conor Shaw was in various states of broken during the course of the game.

 

18/36 passing for 214 3TD and a pick passing. They needed 100yds rushing from Denard in some weird scat back position to make a game of it.

Edited August 13, 2013 by piratey

[ndomer4 532]

Hmm where to start...Well let's start at Defense and break down why it's going to be a disaster in Ace Deuce. (Feel free to use any of the below, I'm putting this together during a morning of rolling meetings)

 

DEFENSIVELY

This hot mess begins and ends with the front 7. You want to talk about polar opposites, it's Michigan's front 7 to our front 7. Their front 4 is:

 

DT-Jibreel Black takes over for Will Campbell, they lose 3 inches and 30lbs at the position as Black is one of the most under sized DT's in college football at only 6'2" 278lb. This is an area of HUGE concern for the Wolverines as he is backed up by a True Freshman in Henry Poggi(reported to camp at just 260lbs) and a 3rd year walk-on Ryan Glasgow.

 

NT-Quinton Washington returns for another uninspiring year of meritocracy at the NT position. To say Michigan fans can't wait to replace this kid is an understatement. To this point, expect the 340lb Sophomore Pee-wee Pipkins to replace him by midseason. This is a reason why catching Michigan early is a key.

 

SDE-Chris Wormley proves just how far things have fallen post-RR recruiting(think Ty Willingham) He's a 3* redshirt frosh DE with a pathetic offer list. Backing him up are nothing but freshman, there is no experienced depth at the End position.

 

DE- Franky Clark steps in for the relocated Brennan Beyer...for now. Word on the street is by midseason, true frosh Taco Charlton will be replacing the much, much undersized Clark. Clark once again shows where Michigan is at in terms of defensive depth, another short(6'2") undersized, Rich Rod kid that doesn't fit Michigan's 4-3 alignment.

 

So in summarizing their defensive line, they have three new starters and only one player on the line is heavier than 289lb(Washington is a slender 301lb)

 

SAM OLB-Cam Gordon is taking over for the injured All-Everything Jake Ryan. The drop at this position is about as large as you can get as Gordon is a converted WR and backup Beyer was moved from rush DE to make up for the drop off in depth. 2 walk-on's are the remaining depth at SAM OLB. The rush side of Michigan's front 7 is pathetically weak...

 

MLB-Des Morgan shifts over from the WILL to take over the middle from Demens. Des is small...like REALLY small. He needs cleats on pavement to touch 6'1" and weighed in at 228lb. This is a former 3* kid that hasn't sniffed the inside position in 3 years. I wouldn't be surprised if Joe Bolden doesn't end up taking a majority of the snaps by seasons end.

 

WILL OLB-'Big' (James)Ross is prolly the highest ceiling and is the most talented player on their front 7, he and Pee-Wee Pipkins were the highlights of Hoke's first class defensively. While unproven, Big Ross looks to be a legit OLB.

 

So to summarize the whole front 7... they are returning 1 starter to his position from a year ago and just 2 starters overall(Morgan was WILL last year) They were the 52nd ranked team against the Run last year and a disastrous 77th in the nation in sacks. Given their youth, lack of depth and general lack of talent(of those 7, only 2 were ranked as 4*, the rest is 3* midwest talent....) I see this as among the worst front 7's we will face all year long.

 

LCB- Blake Countess is definitely a high ceiling kid we would have loved to have picked up but lacks experience as he lost last year after blowing out his knee in the first series of the first game.

 

RCB-Courtney Avery... Man... unranked, unheralded, wouldn't walk-on most schools in the B1G and an offer sheet that is almost all MAC schools. 4th year nickle back finally gets a shot at a starting gig. This is a serious cause for concern among the blue faithful.

 

SS-Jarrod Wilson comes up from the special teams to win the SS job in the spring after Jordan Kovacs graduates to get a job as a used car dealer or something.

 

FS-Thomas Gordon is an unremarkable player but the rock of this secondary. His health is key because behind him is a sea of freshmen...

 

Of the 11 starters on Michigan's defense next year, only three return to their position from the year before and just 4 starters overall. This defense is ripe for the picking in the early season, kids like Taco, Bolden and Pee-Wee will likely end up as starters by mid season(think Aaron Lynch and Tuitt in 2011) The Martin/Watt combo on the left side is going to open massive holes for a fast kid like GAIII to abuse, making cuts won't be necessary. They lack dynamic speed in the secondary, which should allow for Tommy to hit his experienced receivers on short/intermediate button/slant/fade routes.

 

Lunch time, so I'll work out an offensive look this afternoon.

 

That was a good read haha I was laughing the whole time reading that. You make it sound like they're a bunch of walk ons, I hope they play as bad as you make them sound.

 

If that's the case for their front 7 I wouldn't even throw the ball if I was BK. Run run run...

[golson5 221]

If you think Michigan is running out a bunch of scrubs and are as bad as you think, you're way off

[piratey 6]

If you think Michigan is running out a bunch of scrubs and are as bad as you think, you're way off

 

Or what I'm saying is they return 3 starters, a wealth of inexperience, lack of depth and sone glaring weaknesses with under talented players keeping the seat warm for hoke's last two classes...

 

We would be freaking out if we were starting 8 new players and 7 three star kids

[Paulo1300 0]

Jeremy Gallon is the shortest 5'8" man on the planet and TJ is 5'11"

 

They were opportunistic in a game they should have lost by 4 scores if SCar had a healthy QB or RB...Remember that Conor Shaw was in various states of broken during the course of the game.

 

18/36 passing for 214 3TD and a pick passing. They needed 100yds rushing from Denard in some weird scat back position to make a game of it.

 

in my opinion jeremy gallon is better than tj jones.. i watched every game of both of them.

i wasnt comparing their heights, i was comparing their player quality. regardless of his height, he brings down the pass. and it was very evident how good he was once gardner became qb and they started throwing the ball more often. (dont get me wrong, I think tj jones is very good too, and he showed it against bama).

 

 

I said their defense played very poorly, so ya.. not sure what you are trying to say about the qb. regardless of what you say, they put up 28 points and shut down clowney (until lewan got hurt)

Edited August 13, 2013 by Paulo1300

[corysold 0]

Or what I'm saying is they return 3 starters, a wealth of inexperience, lack of depth and sone glaring weaknesses with under talented players keeping the seat warm for hoke's last two classes...

 

We would be freaking out if we were starting 8 new players and 7 three star kids

 

Yeah, if ND signs 5 3* kids for an entire recruiting class, the fans are up in arms.

 

Just for the sake of argument, imagine the fear if ND's defense looked like this.

 

S- Baratti and Turner

 

CB- Bennet Jackson and Josh Atkinson

 

OLB - Ishaq and Daniel Smith (filling in for Shembo)

 

MLB - Kendall Moore

 

DE - Chase Hounshell and Anthony Rabasa

 

DT - Springmann and Jarron Jones

 

I mean, that is more or less the picture Piratey just painted of the Michigan defense. A bunch of 3* kids, some of which will be better than that, but some that won't. A bunch of young kids with one or two top-end players.

 

Would you feel good playing a top 10 team with that defense?