Biven, Elmer, McGlinchey, McGovern, and Montelus.

 

No question in my mind who the most important guys are in this incoming class.

 

That's NO knock to Jaylon Smith, Max Redfield, and any of the other elite prospects coming in. All these guys will be part of the process, and even with my biases on what I look for in a player, I like almost all these guys quite a bit.

 

If there's one area we got housed in last night vs. Bama, it was our Oline. A few good plays here and there, but while we got beat in the trenches on D, we didn't even TRY to commit to the run last night. A lot of our reserves got hurt over the course of the year, and we've had some pretty rough luck despite bringing in good #'s at the position.

 

Close the talent gap starts with establishing the line of scrimmage on offense. Any time your D is out there for 40 minutes in a title game, it's because you didn't have the wear withal to control tempo. It starts with building depth along the Oline, and in turn letting them duke it out to earn their keep.

 

I don't think many of them will play next year, but these guys will be instrumental in the continued development of the program. Eat plenty, and become good friends with Mr. Longo, gentlemen. Your day will come.

^^^^^^^This!

The responsibility of closing the gap ultimately lies with the NCAA. The gap will NEVER be closed if SEC teams are allowed to sign more players than anyone else and then essentially cut who they don't want like an NFL team. Their scholarships mean as much as an NFL contract and can be pulled at any time. Our guys have to flunk out, break rules, etc to have their scholarships removed, not because we sign a five star. Look at the class Texas AM signed this year just to try to compete. There are rules for the rest of us and rules for the SEC.

I'm excited to see Montelus play. Love the 300lb lineman that can move.

 

I still wish we could have snagged Cyrus Koujanido (sp?) out of high school. He went to a Catholic high school (Dematha) that we have connections to (Brey etc.) He even said prior to the game that he really would have considered ND had we been challenging for titles when he was coming out. Hopefully the next kid like that will give us a look now.

 

It all comes down to linemen. OL and DL. We did really well on OL this year. I can only hope we add Vanderdoes to the DL equation.

I agree the lines are where it starts. Watching Lacy and Yeldon run last night make me all the more excited for Greg Bryant. That kid is built now. That is an SEC type RB that can wear a defense down. Again, no RB is successful without a great OL, but we can't run a Theo Riddick between the tackles against teams like Bama. Did you see Riddick get thrown, literally thrown like a rag doll backwards 6 yards in the 1st half last night? Bryant is right out of SEC country and is their style of back. That's what has me excited about this class. We need more big bodies on the DL too. We need depth, something that is essential to compete with the SEC schools. We can't lose a starter only to throw in a Frosh.

Edited January 8, 201311 yr by BI5224

I agree that the line is very very important but Smith and Redfield are important too. Our Safeties and Linebackers were just too slow. I loved how Motta and FArley stepped up this year but they were too slow against Bama. Redfield and Slaughter will be upgrades next year. Russell, Shumate, and Bennett Jackson have the required speed but I am afraid Collinsworth will be the other choice. I think he will play good against any team outside the top 10 but I am not convinced he can cover enough of the field to play against the top 10 teams.

Collinsworth should be our nickel safety next year. It would be awesome to have a third CORNER to bring in instead of a safety though.

All night long, the single most dominating part of that game was the Alabama Offensive line. The offensive line is even more important then the defensive line in my opinion. Always has been. If you can run the ball consistently and protect your quarterback you have a great chance to win the game. Of course everyone and everything is important. I love that we are playing better defense, but you saw what that offensive line did to our defense. I love the O linemen coming in, I just wish they came last year. We're getting there. Make no mistake, it's coming.

Don't get me wrong - getting stuffed like we did last night is no cause for jumping off. Oklahoma's optimism is certainly founded. This incoming class is exactly the kind of class that BI harps about needing in order to compete with these guys - and he's right. At WORST, we can maybe afford one class every four that is around the 8th to 10th best, but with the way Bama is rolling, even that could be pushing it. We are talking about 3 titles in 4 years - this may be the best dynasty we've ever seen, and it's an era where a LOT of schools are putting a lot of resources into fielding good football teams.

 

The ship is on the right course, we've got a coach who is cerebral and humble enough to adapt to circumstances, and he does a pretty darn good job in dealing with all the bells and whistles that make Notre Dame unique and special to all of us. He's taken us from a relative football stone age and taken us towards relevancy. But I think we should have our eyes opened as to who we're up against, and that the systemic approach to football in the SEC is on an entirely different planet than most any other conference.

 

Took a look back at the last four recruiting classes. From the day that Manti Te'o put on that blue and gold hat in front of a banquet hall in Hawaii and inked with ND until the final whistle blew on last night's game and #5 walked off the field, Notre Dame has signed 81 players - himself included.

 

In that same amount of time, Alabama has inked 103.

 

Think about that for a minute, folks. 22 more scholarships. 22 more chances to find 1, 2, 4 more starters - or to find guys that keep pushing the others you've brought in. 22 more guys that make their 2-deep more of a 3-deep than anything. And all of those chances are with Tuscaloosa being in the SEC hotbed, while Notre Dame assistants are hopping on planes trying to convince kids from warm weather states to come to a small, quiet, private Midwestern school far from home.

 

That's 22 more kids who sat with grey shirts waiting their turn, or who were there to step up when their "Brad Carrico" went out with a career ending injury, or when their "Jordan Prestwood" didn't keep up with grades, or when their "Aaron Lynch" decided to go back closer to home. For them, the Tide just keeps Rolling on. For us, we're starting from scratch every time that happens, and are looking, at best, at his replacement as a true freshman starting from square one. At worst, we're either taking 5th year senior fluff that didn't contribute during their first four years just to fill out a roster, or we simply don't hit 85 players at all.

 

That's practically 5 recruiting classes for every 4 of ours. Whether it be through injuries, grades, or transfers, 'Bama finds a way to turn 103 (plus whatever 5th year redshirts stuck around) into the 85 you saw on the field last night, whooping us for 60 minutes. Meanwhile, every kid we lose along the way means we're begging, borrowing, and stealing from 5th year classes just to try and field 85 scholarship players. Feelings on it aside, the #'s crunch is what it is, and it certainly had a hand in the ass kicking we witnessed last night. And it's not just Bama. Go take a look at what Texas A&M is doing right now in order to compete with the SEC incumbents. Go take a look at LSU over that same span of time.

 

As long as that is the case, and as long as Notre Dame continues to stick by the Luke Massas and the Tyler Stocktons of the world in handing them meaningful, marketable degrees when they hang 'em up, we have to realize that we have ZERO margin for error. Yes, the program is on the right track, but in order for Notre Dame to hoist a crystal ball some day, under these circumstances? We need EVERYTHING to fall into place. It starts with taking a roster with some great players and turning it into a roster FULL of great players, but our academic integrity and loyalty to our kids IS a factor when it comes to throwing our weight around with the heavy hitters in the SEC. Maybe things change a bit when the playoff format gets instituted and tweaked, but in the mean time, it's still an uphill climb.

 

Notre Dame deserves a lot of credit in turning themselves from a bunch of has-beens into re-introducing themselves at the table of discussion, but it doesn't stop at being relevant.

My sentiments exactly calves. I posted my thoughts on over recruiting earlier in this thread. It's just like in baseball, the Yanks and Sox won't ALWAYS win every time, but it's far easier for them to overcome issues that doom other franchises.

Don't get me wrong - getting stuffed like we did last night is no cause for jumping off. Oklahoma's optimism is certainly founded. This incoming class is exactly the kind of class that BI harps about needing in order to compete with these guys - and he's right. At WORST, we can maybe afford one class every four that is around the 8th to 10th best, but with the way Bama is rolling, even that could be pushing it. We are talking about 3 titles in 4 years - this may be the best dynasty we've ever seen, and it's an era where a LOT of schools are putting a lot of resources into fielding good football teams.

 

The ship is on the right course, we've got a coach who is cerebral and humble enough to adapt to circumstances, and he does a pretty darn good job in dealing with all the bells and whistles that make Notre Dame unique and special to all of us. He's taken us from a relative football stone age and taken us towards relevancy. But I think we should have our eyes opened as to who we're up against, and that the systemic approach to football in the SEC is on an entirely different planet than most any other conference.

 

Took a look back at the last four recruiting classes. From the day that Manti Te'o put on that blue and gold hat in front of a banquet hall in Hawaii and inked with ND until the final whistle blew on last night's game and #5 walked off the field, Notre Dame has signed 81 players - himself included.

 

In that same amount of time, Alabama has inked 103.

 

Think about that for a minute, folks. 22 more scholarships. 22 more chances to find 1, 2, 4 more starters - or to find guys that keep pushing the others you've brought in. 22 more guys that make their 2-deep more of a 3-deep than anything. And all of those chances are with Tuscaloosa being in the SEC hotbed, while Notre Dame assistants are hopping on planes trying to convince kids from warm weather states to come to a small, quiet, private Midwestern school far from home.

 

That's 22 more kids who sat with grey shirts waiting their turn, or who were there to step up when their "Brad Carrico" went out with a career ending injury, or when their "Jordan Prestwood" didn't keep up with grades, or when their "Aaron Lynch" decided to go back closer to home. For them, the Tide just keeps Rolling on. For us, we're starting from scratch every time that happens, and are looking, at best, at his replacement as a true freshman starting from square one. At worst, we're either taking 5th year senior fluff that didn't contribute during their first four years just to fill out a roster, or we simply don't hit 85 players at all.

 

That's practically 5 recruiting classes for every 4 of ours. Whether it be through injuries, grades, or transfers, 'Bama finds a way to turn 103 (plus whatever 5th year redshirts stuck around) into the 85 you saw on the field last night, whooping us for 60 minutes. Meanwhile, every kid we lose along the way means we're begging, borrowing, and stealing from 5th year classes just to try and field 85 scholarship players. Feelings on it aside, the #'s crunch is what it is, and it certainly had a hand in the ass kicking we witnessed last night. And it's not just Bama. Go take a look at what Texas A&M is doing right now in order to compete with the SEC incumbents. Go take a look at LSU over that same span of time.

 

As long as that is the case, and as long as Notre Dame continues to stick by the Luke Massas and the Tyler Stocktons of the world in handing them meaningful, marketable degrees when they hang 'em up, we have to realize that we have ZERO margin for error. Yes, the program is on the right track, but in order for Notre Dame to hoist a crystal ball some day, under these circumstances? We need EVERYTHING to fall into place. It starts with taking a roster with some great players and turning it into a roster FULL of great players, but our academic integrity and loyalty to our kids IS a factor when it comes to throwing our weight around with the heavy hitters in the SEC. Maybe things change a bit when the playoff format gets instituted and tweaked, but in the mean time, it's still an uphill climb.

 

Notre Dame deserves a lot of credit in turning themselves from a bunch of has-beens into re-introducing themselves at the table of discussion, but it doesn't stop at being relevant.

 

Fantastic post calves. If only one of these useless talking heads would talk about things that actually matter such as this.

Do we have glaring examples of wide-spread incidents in which players that didn't pass football muster had their scholarships yanked from them after their freshman (or beyond) years by Alabama so they can make space for someone better?

 

If there are, yes, that's terrible

 

I just haven't heard of many.

Do we have glaring examples of wide-spread incidents in which players that didn't pass football muster had their scholarships yanked from them after their freshman (or beyond) years by Alabama so they can make space for someone better?

 

If there are, yes, that's terrible

 

I just haven't heard of many.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/726887-alabama-football-are-transfers-from-bamas-football-team-hurting-the-program

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2012/08/ex-coach-says-alabama-assistant-pushed-recruit-to-transfer/1#.UOybpKzb5AA

 

http://www.southernpigskin.com/acc/view/transfers-in-tuscaloosa

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/753116-attrition-opens-door-for-alabama-newcomers

 

And that's just 5 minutes of google searches.

 

Are they pointing guns to guy's heads? No. Are they taking away scholarships from guys who were on the two deep but sprained an ankle only to get "Pipped"? No. We may frown on the way they do things, but I've heard of other schools doing some pretty slimy things in comparison to the way business is run in Tuscaloosa. I'd actually be willing to give Bama the benefit of the doubt in a number of instances. But when you put the whole picture together, there are a lot of things that give Alabama a distinct advantage when it comes to bringing in talent and managing it while it's there.

 

More food for thought: Dlinemen get hurt, suspended, and go pro at Bama? In comes Jesse Williams from the JUCO ranks.

 

Tee Shepard doesn't have the grades and Lo Wood gets injured? We're stealing from slot receiver and trying to get Keivare Russell up to speed on the fly.

 

Compare and contrast their net effects in last night's game.

 

Unless things change, it really is zero margin for error. It's that much harder for us to stock the cupboard, and that's why it hurts so much more when we have some form of attrition.

agreed, we have Big uglies, We NEED HUGE UGLIES that was the difference, sure they were faster, executed better but their strength up front was the difference.

 

I remember thinking to myself Barrett Jones Looks almost as Big as LOU NiX, their media guide is kind to their weights.

 

Fluker looked as BIG or BIGGER than LOU

 

BETTER HIT THAT TRAINING TABLE AND THE WEIGHTS BOYS you saw what they look like

Here's the good news: we're #1on Rivals AND, perhaps more importantly, have the 2nd highest star average score, behind SC who only has 14players. We are getting QUANTITY and QUALITY for the first time, maybe, post-Holtz. That is what I have been begging for fir years on this forum. If we add a guy or two, that star avg is only go up. Good news, boys. Good news...

Here's the good news: we're #1on Rivals AND, perhaps more importantly, have the 2nd highest star average score, behind SC who only has 14players. We are getting QUANTITY and QUALITY for the first time, maybe, post-Holtz. That is what I have been begging for fir years on this forum. If we add a guy or two, that star avg is only go up. Good news, boys. Good news...

 

Quality is right. Great players coming in next year. We are only taking great players from here on out. I just don't see us taking a LaRue or any other WR. Doesn't make sense when we need big bodies. No matter what, this class is solid. At the least, one more big body is needed. If Prevot or Hollins commit, thats great too. They can put on weight, mainly Hollins it looks like. Prevot is only 200 I'm fairly certain. Everyone needs to understand the importance of Vanderdoes. He wouldn't redshirt either. He or Rochell would probably be on the 3 deep due to their talent alone. Both playing I doubt. I HOPE NOT! That would not be good, but its a situation we would have to accept. Vanderdoes is so massive though, he would be the best recruit. He can move too.

Question is can we put 3 straight classes together with the same idea of quality and quantity......idk I'm worried about linebackers (based on this class that won't be a big deal in a year orm 2 though) I like the idea of bringing in big athletes and worrying where they play later....but the problem is when you have. Limited spots if they don't pan out its a waste of a spot

Question is can we put 3 straight classes together with the same idea of quality and quantity......idk I'm worried about linebackers (based on this class that won't be a big deal in a year orm 2 though) I like the idea of bringing in big athletes and worrying where they play later....but the problem is when you have. Limited spots if they don't pan out its a waste of a spot

 

If we want to win a NC we MUST bring in 3 straight classes like this one. No more finishing #9 and being happy with that. Top 3 classes for 3 straight years will get us a title.

There is no reason we can't string together great classes. We had to show recruits we can win and win consistently. This incoming class really nailed it across the board, especially if we get Vanderdoes. We are off to a great start for next year and I fully expect to average 4 stars per player. We come out of the gate next year winning by more convincing margins as Golson, DaVaris and company progress. All we needed was the right coach. Charlie showed Notre Dame can still attract great talent. Kelly absolutely understands recruiting and how to stack together great classes. Now that we are winning, the current class will be the norm. We can be even more selective as the cupboard is filling up. We are back. I was hoping the SEC would eliminate themselves this year, and they almost did. I bet they do next year. Alabama plays Texas A&M and LSU. If they win those they play someone like Georgia or Florida. If Ohio State had been eligible we would have another title.

 

I think we need to schedule a game during the week of conference championships. 7 weeks is too long to lay off.