Did I miss the thread on this? If not, I love this decision. Politics and college rivalries aside, the NCAA railroaded PSU and blackmailed them at the same time in a place where they had no jurisdiction. You have to do something to keep these guys honest. They can't think that they can do whatever they want whenever they want.

 

The NCAA told PSU accept the sanctions or we'll give you the death penalty if you challenge us. That's a really tough position for a school, even if you ultimately win the fight in court. I love that Corbett is getting after these assholes, because this is a criminal matter meant for the courts. It's not like the school was cheating to get better players into school.

 

Do I think the PSU scandal is horrendous? Hell yeah! But we have due process for a reason. You HAVE to have the facts and you HAVE to have appropriate remedies. You can't give the death penalty to somebody who steals a car, and you can't give the metaphorical death penalty to a school that didn't cheat on the field.

 

At least PSU you will get its day in court that it deserves. The NCAA has a history of overstepping its bounds. You can see Tarkanian v. NCAA as one example. I'm glad this autonomous bunch of pricks is getting knocked down a peg the same way Goodell got knocked down a few weeks ago.

 

If a court decides the NCAA was within its rights, then I'll swallow this a little better, but I don't think they will, because there was no due process and the NCAA acts like a governmental entity, so it MUST give due process.

Edited January 5, 201311 yr by irishwavend
Sorry... Really long post. I feel like Hawaii.

Corbett is pissed that the 60 million in penalties is leaving the state of pa, and going to programs out of the state.

It's not like the school was cheating to get better players into school.

Personally I view the coverup as cheating a bit... I can't help but thinking some Momma's wouldn't have let their kids go to the school as a result of PSU coming forward... and it wouldn't nearly have been as severe as the penalties.

 

Personally I think it should have been a HUGE fine and less scholly and bowl restrictions... but they needed to do something.

The school gained an advantage in two ways. First, Jopa got to leverage his squeaky clean, legendary educator crap for years. Secondly, there is a clear argument that many players most likely would not have gone there at least for a short period. I realize that they are similar, but they are distinct.

 

As for the NCAA, I applaud their action. First off, there was due process. PSU supplied the Freh report, accepting it as accurate. Given that confession, what further diligence would be required? Secondly, had the NCAA not acted quickly and decisively, they would be effectively neutered forever. This wasn't free shoes or hundred dollar handshakes. It was an institutionalized culture that allowed what happened, covered up by the head coach, AD, and President of the University. Most PSU grads I know have accepted their discipline. Granted, they don't live in PA.

PSU got exactly what they deserved.

I'm sure you all are correct to an extent. Where you are wrong is that $60,000,000 is going out of Pennsylvania taxpayer's pockets to other states which is complete and total horseshit! Keep the money in Pennsylvania and it could be understandable but to take their money and distribute it as they see fit is the same thing as our government raising taxes, unfairly, on small business owners. That's Pennsylvania's money period!

I'm sure you all are correct to an extent. Where you are wrong is that $60,000,000 is going out of Pennsylvania taxpayer's pockets to other states which is complete and total horseshit! Keep the money in Pennsylvania and it could be understandable but to take their money and distribute it as they see fit is the same thing as our government raising taxes, unfairly, on small business owners. That's Pennsylvania's money period!

 

Didn't know that... agreed, that money should stay in PA

You can't give the death penalty to somebody who steals a car, and you can't give the metaphorical death penalty to a school that didn't cheat on the field.

 

I really could not disagree with you more on this point. As a fan of Notre Dame football, I think you would agree that the responsibilities of the program extend beyond the field of play. The Penn State football program may not have cheated on the football field but they failed in the most basic skills of humanity. The NCAA made very clear that this was uncharted territory and that it was very different than other rules violations such as SMU in both the type of infractions and their scope. I think that the sanctions are entirely appropriate and the fact that the $60 million fine would be used nationally to finance child abuse prevention grants seems fitting to me as well.

I dont like this, this is a money grab and trying to get back at the NCAA for punishing their golden program. No one can just take penalties anymore. I hope Pa Gov. loses this lawsuit.

I dont like this, this is a money grab and trying to get back at the NCAA for punishing their golden program. No one can just take penalties anymore. I hope Pa Gov. loses this lawsuit.

 

Is that what you say to someone innocently convicted? There are people in prison because of mentalities like that. That's why court systems exist so no man can be judge and jury.

 

When you say football program, that implies a web of cheating including boosters, coaches, players and illegal benefits. I agree this involved higher ups who covered this up, but together, do they constitute the football program or 4 felons? There are players committing felonies at SEC schools everyday, but they don't shut the whole program down.

 

And, as far as money, that IS tax money. If the NCAA wants to punish them, they can put that into Pennsylvania abuse programs or something else, but the NCAA has no business stealing that money from taxpayers without REAL due process. Sh*t I'm not a big Penn State fan, but I'm a Pennsylvania taxpayer. Maybe I'll file a lawsuit.

Is that what you say to someone innocently convicted? There are people in prison because of mentalities like that. That's why court systems exist so no man can be judge and jury.

 

When you say football program, that implies a web of cheating including boosters, coaches, players and illegal benefits. I agree this involved higher ups who covered this up, but together, do they constitute the football program or 4 felons? There are players committing felonies at SEC schools everyday, but they don't shut the whole program down.

 

And, as far as money, that IS tax money. If the NCAA wants to punish them, they can put that into Pennsylvania abuse programs or something else, but the NCAA has no business stealing that money from taxpayers without REAL due process. Sh*t I'm not a big Penn State fan, but I'm a Pennsylvania taxpayer. Maybe I'll file a lawsuit.

 

I don't feel that the Penn State situation is akin to that of an individual who was wrongfully convicted and spent years in prison. Every one of the players was given the opportunity to transfer without penalty. If they chose to stay, then they did so knowing full well that they would be sitting out of bowl games for four seasons. The same goes for new commits. I would further say that the scandal clearly went beyond four felons as you put it. The government has every right to file a lawsuit and they will be given their day in court. I simply feel that the punishment certainly fits the crime. I think that the courts will find in the same way.

I don't understand how the NCAA is so uneven in its decisions. The Scam Newton thing was complete BS. They couldn't prove Scam knew about his fathers actions? Are you kidding me? A local casino giving players cards to auburn players. The FBI handed them documents that basically spelled it out in black and white what was happening. And NOTHING happened?

 

Then you have USC being hung out to dry for two players getting paid by a local booster whereas Tressel covered up his players getting benefits and OSU gets a slap on the wrist.

 

Normally I wouldn't agree with conspiracy theories like PA's governor is claiming, but the NCAA violation committee stinks to high hell, Jim Delany in particular.

The only people taking the NCAA's side here are people who haven't read the NCAA's bylaws.

 

The action against Penn State was completely outside the NCAA's jurisdiction. They had no authority to do what they did. It's a sham.

 

If you hold up a gas station, you are stealing and should be punished. This doesn't mean the Marines should come kick down your door- it's the wrong department.

Every one of the players was given the opportunity to transfer without penalty. If they chose to stay, then they did so knowing full well that they would be sitting out of bowl games for four seasons. The government has every right to file a lawsuit and they will be given their day in court. I simply feel that the punishment certainly fits the crime. I think that the courts will find in the same way.

 

First rule of stating an argument, don't FEEL anything. Your position is one way or another. Feeling is a cop out. Any legal professor will jerk your ass up for saying you FEEL something.

 

Second, your argument falls right in line with what I was saying about Hoosier's argument - it's railroading. There is a process and PSU wasn't afforded that process. The beginning of the process is jurisdiction. Does the NCAA even have the RIGHT to impose penalties?

 

The opportunity to transfer???? They shouldn't have to, because nobody involved in competing on the field did anything wrong. No players received benefits, etc. Again, this goes back to the felony argument, and you seem to limit the felony argument to an individual. A few years back four UT Vols got in trouble together. Hell, back to 2001 at Notre Dame, 4 guys got in trouble for gang rape. Are we shutting the program down, because a female trainer ON THE FOOTBALL TEAM was gang raped by FOOTBALL PLAYERS??????????????????? No! The law is in place to prevent emotional [CENSORED] like you from being judge and jury, and NO court is going to find that the punishment was appropriate. NO - SINGLE - [CENSORED] - COURT! More Americans need to be taught the law in K-12 education rather than the peace and love [CENSORED], so that you understand your emotional [CENSORED] is wrong, no matter how obvious everything seems.

 

The only people taking the NCAA's side here are people who haven't read the NCAA's bylaws.

 

The action against Penn State was completely outside the NCAA's jurisdiction. They had no authority to do what they did. It's a sham.

 

If you hold up a gas station, you are stealing and should be punished. This doesn't mean the Marines should come kick down your door- it's the wrong department

 

I couldn't agree with you more. Please educate these other fools who have no idea what the judicial system is and how it protects us. I only WISH these guys would be innocently charged of something so they can thank their lucky stars for American due process AND jurisdiction. Jesus [CENSORED] christ...

 

Get educated. I'm losing my patience, and then add alcohol to it and I have no tolerance for stupidity and ignorance of the very thing that prevents the government from throwing you in jail and raping your wife.

Edited January 6, 201311 yr by irishwavend
Edited for cursing....

First off, we are not in a court room and you are not my law professor. So, there is no need for you to try and school me on the art of forming a legal argument. This is a friendly forum and as such, I try to keep the conversation polite and respectful. You seem to subscribe to a different philosophy. Second, I would ask anybody to take a look at our responses and ask themselves which of the two of us is an emotional [CENSORED] as you put it. Third, in the example that you use involving the athletic trainer at ND being sexually assaulted, let me ask you a couple questions regarding that one:

1. Did the coaching staff know about the assault and take no action?

2. Did members of the administration know about it and take no action?

3. Were there a large number of assaults on many different women that took place over the course of many years?

The situations are completely different so don't try to compare the two. You look silly when you do. You criticize me for limiting the felony argument to an individual and then point to isolated incidents involving individuals as support for your argument. Where is the cover up in those situations? The courts will decide whether or not the NCAA acted beyond their scope. So PSU will be given their day in court. To paint them as victims is nonsense. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a plane to catch. If you want to find me, I'll be in the 6th row on the 40 yard line at tomorrow night's game. Hopefully, you won't be knee deep in a barrel of bourbon when you find me.

And I'd like to add that I never said that the lawsuit is completely without merit. Instead, I disagreed with your statement that a program should not be penalized for incidents that did not involve cheating on the field. I can clearly see that there is question as to whether or not the NCAA acted hastily when handling this case. The courts will decide that. I also disagreed with the comparisons that you made to this scandal. The PSU scandal is quite different than any other scandal involving a college football program. Your comparisons downplay what took place and are incongruous.

"If there is a due process claim -- if there is a claim that the NCAA didn't honor due process because it didn't follow its usual procedures -- that's going to be a hard one to win," said Brian Porto, a professor at Vermont Law School and author of "The Supreme Court and The NCAA." "At least based on the Tarkanian case, it isn't a state actor."

 

Again, I won't say that there is no way that Pennsylvania will win the lawsuit but to say "NO SINGLE [CENSORED] COURT" will find against them fails to see that there is merit to both arguments.

Is that what you say to someone innocently convicted? There are people in prison because of mentalities like that. That's why court systems exist so no man can be judge and jury.

 

When you say football program, that implies a web of cheating including boosters, coaches, players and illegal benefits. I agree this involved higher ups who covered this up, but together, do they constitute the football program or 4 felons? There are players committing felonies at SEC schools everyday, but they don't shut the whole program down.

 

And, as far as money, that IS tax money. If the NCAA wants to punish them, they can put that into Pennsylvania abuse programs or something else, but the NCAA has no business stealing that money from taxpayers without REAL due process. Sh*t I'm not a big Penn State fan, but I'm a Pennsylvania taxpayer. Maybe I'll file a lawsuit.

 

Johnny Cochran knew OJ was guilty too.

Is that what you say to someone innocently convicted?

 

WTF?!!? When did Penn State become comparable to someone innocently convicted?

Johnny Cochran knew OJ was guilty too.

 

Here's the proof!