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Edited March 3, 20159 yr by coastereight

I was thinking the exact same thing. With his length and a few extra lbs. you would think he would be much better suited at DE, but if this was really the case I'm sure the coaches would have him there. Maybe with Smith and Councell in the fold next year at OLB he'll be slid up.

Not to rain on your idea, but he plays DE in the nickel already and would never get up to 300 lbs to play the 5 tech. so he's a Cat, needs to be better when they run on the nickel, more weight yes, more stength yes...

 

3-4 DE Heck no.. not 280, not 300, hes a skill, speed rusher who needs to set his edge and shed blocks against the run

In passing situations with a 4-man front he already puts his hand in the ground. Him getting to 280 + LBS would offset his skills as a speed rusher. Ishaq hasn't dominated like some people thought he would because he was too technically unsound out of HS. He doesn't seem to use pass rushing moves effectively. If he played his HS ball at Don Bosco Prep, he would be terrorizing offenses, IMO. I have a feeling that the light is going to come on in a big way for Ishaq before his SR year. Hope it happens before then.

Does anyone else feel like Ishaq playing the cat is a bit forced? Does anyone else think that with all the linebacker talent coming in and KLM leaving due to graduation that Ishaq should put on a few pounds (which his frame can very visibly hold) and play DE? I feel like that is his natural position.

 

You could spill alot of ink on the topic of Ishaq and 'natural position'. Considering that the current ND scheme includes having their DEs slide in with a hand down in a 4-3 look, not sure that is a good match for Ishaq. I am fine with him staying at Cat, and continue to develop physically (especially upper body). He will probably never live up to the 5* billing, but will be Shembo's deputy again next season with inside track to be a starter in his senior season.

I have seen guys come in at 220 and get to 300. It's not a stretch that Ishaq could be a DE and a good one, however, we have invested a lot in him and he is the heir apparent at Cat. Now Jaylon Smith claims he is the heir apparent but he projects more as a dog. I'm open to whatever the coaches want to do, but I don't see him moving. I don't see him getting bigger.

 

If we were going to move him I would like to red shirt him and let him get bigger. I don't think this is a dumb idea at all, it just probably won't happen. I once could name 6 or 7 linebackers we moved to D line. Flanagan, Renaldo Wynn, Alton Maiden, Grant Irons, etc...etc.. etc.... It does happen.

Edited December 30, 201211 yr by OklahomaIrish

I have seen guys come in at 220 and get to 300. It's not a stretch that Ishaq could be a DE and a good one, however, we have invested a lot in him and he is the heir apparentat Cat. Now Jaylon Smith claims he is the heir apparent but he projects more as a dog. I'm open to whatever the coaches want to do, but I don't see him moving. I don't see him getting bigger.

 

If we were going to move him I would like to red shirt him and let him get bigger. I don't think this is a dumb idea at all, it just probably won't happen. I once could name 6 or 7 linebackers we moved to D line. Flanagan, Renaldo Wynn, Alton Maiden, Grant Irons, etc...etc.. etc.... It does happen.

 

Kap Lewis Moore is a good example.. BUT two different guys there. Kap redshirted to get there, always knew he was a power guy that was too light.

 

Ishaq is a speed guy , and as Jarious said a true tweener.. Ought he be a Cat, TE, , DE?. I still think Cat that needs to be more physical against the run

Good call never really thought about that idea. What exactly does he weigh right now?

Awful, awful idea. He's without question a 3-4 CAT OLB or a 4-3 DE.

 

Just because his body type looks thin it doesn't mean it is because it's isn't as he has more lean muscle mass and will not have the bulky look that some of you think is necessary to be strong and that's just not the case.

 

He is very similar to former Miami Dolphin pro bowler who played at about 255 lbs., first as DE and then as a OLB when they went to 3-4 defense.

 

As for Ishaq his PT has been limited and while he might not rack up the stats he's been productive on passing downs because of his speed and athleticism. So he's not the one getting the sack or tackle but he's caused problems so that he's accountable which in turn frees somebody else up.

 

The problem for Ishaq has been when he's in there against the rush more often than not and let's not forget he's more often than not because he's stuck behind Shembo.

 

His game is build around speed and athleticism and that is not what a 3-4 DE is about. First and foremost the 3-4 is about strength and discipline to contain the outside and plug gaps having speed and athleticism at that position is a bonus.

It's clear that some here don't grasp what the 3-4 is all about. It's doesn't matter what these prospects are listed at in the recruiting databases because for most prospects they just use the base opinion of what position a prospect plays is based on the 4-3.

 

Hence why most of out LB recruits since going to the 3-4 are listed as DE and the DE's are listed as DT.

 

So for the most part 3-4 OLB is going to be a 4-3 DE and 3-4 DE are going to be 4-3 DT.

 

So when you look at someone like Ishaq ask yourself if he played in 4-3 would you want to make him a DT.

 

Not only doesn't Ishaq not have the build to bulk up to 300lbs he would in the process of adding another 50 lbs that he would lose his natural elite traits in the process.

 

The reason it worked KLM is because he did have the frame he just didn' start building it up until he got to ND and that could be because he was still maturing or was never in a program to build up his body plus the fact that his game wasn't based on speed and athleticism. His strength was his strength and the lose of a 1/2 step, step or more when he overloaded his frame to get to 300+ it was offset by maximizing his strength.

 

So the point is that you don't overload prospects who gifts are speed, quickness, athleticism to max there strength at the cost of speed. What you do is make them as strong as you can while maintaining that speed and athleticism.

I think ishaq has played pretty well for a sophomore at a position extremely difficult to convert to from high school to college....it has taken shembo 3 years to look "good" and i see ishaq coming along very well

 

I like recruiting stars but hate the pressure that a 5 star gets when he comes in...he will be an nfl draft pick...don't worry

I feel like you don't need to necessarily be 300 to play DE in the 3-4. If he was 280 or so but had the strength he could do it with his length. Not to mention if Kona can put on 80 pounds in about 18 months I don't see why Ishaq couldn't put on 40 pounds at 6'6".

 

 

 

As for the point about his strength as a speed rusher, I have yet to see him demonstrate that skill. I agree with you that the light will come on one way or another.

 

I know. In fact, I said that he doesn't rush the passer very well in my original post. He can run. That is his best asset. He isn't going to excel as a power player. His skill set probably fits the DOG position in our defense, but I'm not going to give up and say that he will never be a good pass rusher. Most guys that come out of NYC have technique issues and take a couple of years to reach their potential.

Slow your role Ricochet, I know exactly what the 3-4 is about. This great productivity that you claim to have seen is apparently invisible to a vast majority of the fanbase and a vast majority of analysts. I can remember one game where he was a productive member of the defense. As good a Shembo has been, Ishaq has had every opportunity to earn more time. All I ever hear from analysts is how he looks lazy on the field and lacks a second gear. So I don't know what you are talking about, but he seems out of position to the majority of those watching. At 6'6" there is no reason why he can't get to 290.

 

While I am not on either side here, I call BS. Show me proof from this year of an analyst saying that. Johnny Hillbilly from "Forum X" doesnt count either.

Slow your role Ricochet, I know exactly what the 3-4 is about. This great productivity that you claim to have seen is apparently invisible to a vast majority of the fanbase and a vast majority of analysts. I can remember one game where he was a productive member of the defense. As good a Shembo has been, Ishaq has had every opportunity to earn more time. All I ever hear from analysts is how he looks lazy on the field and lacks a second gear. So I don't know what you are talking about, but he seems out of position to the majority of those watching. At 6'6" there is no reason why he can't get to 290.

 

 

Thank you Coastereight. Speed kills. At every position. How soon we forget, say a Justin Tuck. He came in as a linebacker and he weighed 225 pounds. He stood 6' 4'' and had a lot of similarity to Ishaq. Holtz would move safeties to linebacker. He moved linebackers to defensive end. I already named 5 or 6 guys we did this with.

 

Heck, even Chris Zorich was a linebacker when he came in. What made these guys great was their work ethic in the weight room and their drive to succeed. I don't think Ishaq is going to move, and like Faith said, you sure want to redshirt him if he did, but I would love to have a kid like this if he had the mind and will of a Chris Zorich or Jim Flannigan.

 

The proof on this topic is in history. It has happened many many times before. So as far as the original poster, excellent thought, but that ship may have sailed. In retrospect, maybe they wish they had tried it. The problem is, I just don't see the drive to get bigger and better. Heck, even as a Cat he could carry another 10 pounds with that big frame. Imagine Tuitt on one side at 305 and Ishaq on the other at 290. Maybe if Lynch had bolted a year sooner... oh well, we will never know, but moving people around and finding the right spots is part of what makes coaches great. Lou did it all the time. Kelly did well with moving Bennet Jackson, Russell and Bruce Heggie (just kidding!) Go Irish.

While I am not on either side here, I call BS. Show me proof from this year of an analyst saying that. Johnny Hillbilly from "Forum X" doesnt count either.

 

Sorry to break it to you, but I remember a few analysts saying he seems lazy in his movements as well...I know Mayock had said it a few times

I thought he should play end for us when he came in, but at this juncture? I wouldn't mess with his development. He's SLOWLY figuring things out, and I don't think Kelly is blowing smoke up our asses when he talks about Ishaq's length affecting the passing game. I think there are a lot of throws that don't even get attempted because he's Rodan dropping back on 3rd and distance.

 

As some have alluded to, Ishaq's issues have a lot more to do with what's gone on between the ears, not being a square peg in a round hole. If he figures it out, his skills SHOULD be used for a position as versatile and complex as OLB. We don't have a shortage of talented down lineman at this point - his best chance of helping this defense is by staying right where he is.

 

I'll also add that it's not like we haven't seen some of the graybeards struggle in figuring that positon out. Fleming had played college ball for 3 years, and even he struggled as a starter for the first 8 games. It took Shembo some time to figure the position out as well when they gave him more responsibilities other than, "GO GET QUARTERBACK." Yes, we all hoped that he'd be a bonafide monster by now after being an EE, but if there's a staff in this country I trust to take him under their wings and get the lightbulb to go off for, it's our guys. I've seen bits of progress in his game, and he has earned more snapps as the season has gone on... I'd hate to mess with that because we got impatient.

One problem is Shembo takes most of the reps and rightfully so. If ever there was a kid that would benefit from a red shirt it is Ishaq. Next year we have the same situation, not only is Shembo back, but Jaylon Smith has stated he will be the understudy. I would still like to red shirt Ishaq at this juncture, but I know it won't happen.

Rivals analysts have stated they think he's been disappointing and have cited his lack of "want to" and his lack of a second gear.

 

The guy played in all 12 games this year, had 0 sacks as a CAT linebacker and 1 pass deflection...

 

1) Show me what they said and when they said it. Plenty of people said that last year and when he came out of HS. I have heard people say Ishaq has done much better this year, it is all in the eyes of the beholder I guess.

 

2) i guess you dont remember the Navy game where Ishaq was dominate, but didnt really rack up any sacks (remember that Tuitt TD, that was ALL Ishaq) or that Ishaq is second string. Just because he played in all 12 games doesnt mean he is getting the reps you think he is. Ishaq is being used in obvious passing situations. He is not getting the same amount of reps as Shembo or Tuitt.

 

I personally think he has done what he has been asked to do this season, that may not be 5* duties just yet; but considering he had poor technique coming in and is playing a tough position behind a good player, Ill give him some slack.

If I were Ishaq and I seen that I was going nowhere playing OLB and had bigger aspirations then I would seriously think of a transfer. He is from New York anyway so why not find a team near your home that runs a 4-3 scheme and go play there and finish strong in your career?

1.) I'm not going to go through every video and podcast for you, but there were multiple times where they stated this. Be a fan, listen and read some stuff yourself. Another poster also said Mayock has said the same thing. And yes, they've said it this year.

 

2.) He had one qb hurry all year as well and that was the one. You know what else he did that game? 4 tackles. Yeah, pure domination. If your argument has gotten to the point where you're saying "yeah well, you remember that one time when ishaq had 4 tackles against Navy" I think that about wraps it up.

 

As for your last piece, I'm not criticizing him for underperforming. I am simply saying he would be better suited gaining 30 pounds and playing end. I think he could throw that weight on and be ready to go by next September. I don't think it would take a redshirt, it would just take dedication. Jaylon saying he's Shembo's heir might just be proof that Kelly is already thinking the same thing, but moved Ishaq to LB because with Lynch we had 3 DE for 2 spots.

 

Ishaq could gain the weight over winter conditioning, spring drills and then summer camp. I'm beginning to like the thought. He could be a force at 6' 6'' and 285. Just get into the rotation with Day and get better every day. With the glut at olb it might be the thing to do.

Slow your role Ricochet, I know exactly what the 3-4 is about. This great productivity that you claim to have seen is apparently invisible to a vast majority of the fanbase and a vast majority of analysts. I can remember one game where he was a productive member of the defense. As good a Shembo has been, Ishaq has had every opportunity to earn more time. All I ever hear from analysts is how he looks lazy on the field and lacks a second gear. So I don't know what you are talking about, but he seems out of position to the majority of those watching. At 6'6" there is no reason why he can't get to 290.

 

Getting to 290 would require a 35 pound swing I just dont see that dramatic of a change happening at this point in his career.