coastereight Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) ................. Edited March 3, 2015 by coastereight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imroc Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Anyone else watching ESPN right now? Sportscenter has been doing everything possible all night to keep the Heisman from Manti and make sure it stays in their SEC cashcow. They just aired Te'o's interview and then immediately after said he might not be the best defensive player in the country. They then licked Manziel's crotch for a solid 5 minutes straight. It's really unbelievable how bad the "journalism" is. I saw it & honestly (as a devout catholic) I honestly say that Manti (who's late GF, in her grace of God) is above what the Heisman currently stands for. Forget ther verbage os what the coveted trophy states. This trophy is a popularity contest of who does what at they key point of the season. ie....dettmer vs raghib Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yikityyakirish Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 ...I put it this way...If I had a vote i would vote for Manti...but I can't argue against anyone wanting Manziel to win it....he's crazy good and just may be the best player in the country....They're both awesome players...that's like comparing Patrick Willis to Tom Brady...their both the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunSlinger Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Im so tired of the hate for ESPN, get over it already. Manti is a great player, but enough is enough. Its an offensive award, Manti will gladly take the Championship over any personal award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thiazi Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Manziel is simply undeserving if you look closely at his performances. More than half his TDs were out of conference. His performance against LSU was atrocious. It could be argued very convincingly that he personally lost both the LSU and Florida games for his team. His team jumped out to leads in both; in the second halves, A&M scored 7 points COMBINED. In two second halves. And they lost both of them by less than a touchdown. Manziel is the purest product of the media bias conceivable. He's a system QB, just as Sumlin's other QBs were system QBs. You put Case Keenum or whatever his name was on A&M this year, you probably get the same results. System QBs winning Heismans is very, very tired. I wonder what kind of numbers Golson would put up in Sumlin's offense? I bet they'd be at least as good as Manziel's. And I bet Everett wouldn't have lost those two games - Everett is actually a clutch player, unlike Johnny Come Lately. But hey, way to pad your stats against Mizzou tonight, kid. Meanwhile Manti was doing meaningful things against a real team in a game in which he was more than just a spoiler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thiazi Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Im so tired of the hate for ESPN, get over it already. Manti is a great player, but enough is enough. Its an offensive award, Manti will gladly take the Championship over any personal award. The Heisman is neither officially, nor in practice, an offensive award. I'm sure Manti would rather take both than just one, if given the option. A Heisman, for better or worse, is a great honor not only for a player but for his school. An eighth Heisman, and the first to a purely defensive player, would be a big deal for ND. It would be right up there with Hornung winning on a losing team - proof of ND's superiority. Only ND can do such things, etc. And we'll stop hating on ESPN when they stop destroying the sport we love - you see, college football is still a media sport. Things are decided by vote rather than just on the field. So when you have this giant media entity propagandizing for and against certain things, it ends up seriously affecting the outcomes. You do realize we very nearly had another title game between the SEC champ and another SEC team that failed to even APPEAR in its conference title game, right? Would've been the second in two years. That's ESPN. In conjunction with the SEC schools and southern media people, they've hi-jacked the sport. If you love NCAA football, you better hate ESPN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessemoore97 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Im so tired of the hate for ESPN, get over it already. Manti is a great player, but enough is enough. Its an offensive award, Manti will gladly take the Championship over any personal award. Have to agree with you there. Manti is a team first player. This team plays for each other, Manti is an essential cog in the engine, but he is a kid who would never put his goals above the greater glory of the team's accomplishments. He's said it all season long that the team wants to win and that is all that matters to him and to be playing with his friends. If he was a me guy, he would've been gone in the Spring for the draft. The tragic series of events that transpired this fall centered around Manti, but I think had an even more profound impact on the entire team, galvanizing them and their commitment to win as a team above all else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish_Convert Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 What the Heisman truly stands for: Manti. What the Heisman has become: Manziel. If Manti has one thing going for him, Manziel's schedule is done for now as well. He's already been getting so much publicity that a conference title game would have been a chance to garner more with Manti out of the picture. Still, I knew when the "Johnny Football" moniker started circulating that the media had their baby. Klein has one more game against Texas so he has a slight chance to get himself back in the conversation. At the very least, Manti should be in NY. If by chance he actually wins it, I would probably be wiping my eyes. I truly believe he deserves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious_ND Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 doesn't matter.. manti is the best player in college football this year... awards will always have a biased attached. good on pat "the drag queen" hayden for saying publicly that he was voting for manti! oh and good on mayock for promoting manti. and also stating if he had a vote it would be for manti.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thiazi Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Have to agree with you there. Manti is a team first player. This team plays for each other, Manti is an essential cog in the engine, but he is a kid who would never put his goals above the greater glory of the team's accomplishments. He's said it all season long that the team wants to win and that is all that matters to him and to be playing with his friends. If he was a me guy, he would've been gone in the Spring for the draft. The tragic series of events that transpired this fall centered around Manti, but I think had an even more profound impact on the entire team, galvanizing them and their commitment to win as a team above all else. But that's the thing - the Heisman isn't a "me" award. It's an award to the entire football program and the university. The player gets it and keeps it forever, yes, and it's his name on it, but the university's name is on there too, and it's part of their lore forever. It's something they can say to recruits forever. When ND says how many Heisman winners and all-americans they've had, does it sound like they're talking about "me" awards? Awards award the school. Similarly, a player going in the first round awards the school, even if it's a me thing for the player; and so does NFL success of certain players. All this stuff belongs to ND. Montana winning Super Bowls? That was ours. Bettis? That was ours. And so on with all the Heismans and all-american selections, and coach of the year awards. It all adds to the prestige of the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thiazi Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I think everyone but Manziel and Te'o is out of the running. Klein's loss was disastrous - too big a stage, too embarrassing a beatdown, too ugly a performance. Manziel still has to be the heavy favorite to win - gaudy numbers (never mentioned that fully half of them were achieved in non-SEC games) and a complete media blitz by the SEC contingent - meaning ESPN, which runs sports media. When they name Heisman favorites on their shows and Manziel is first and Te'o is either not mentioned or is an after thought, that has an effect - as it's designed to have an effect. It's like when they were "reporting" their "expert" saying ND couldn't pass KSU or Oregon in the BCS - it wasn't reporting news, it was attempting to influence it by influencing voters to think of what they said as true, and a foregone conclusion. They also have put it to a point where no one ever mentions Manziel's losses or performances in those games. Plus obviously he's a QB. HOWEVER. He's a freshman. There's a contingent of older voters who will not vote for a freshman. Ever. Te'o also has numerous unique advantages, of which the storybook night tonight is one - a pick, and another amazing goal line stop, against a glamor team on the road at night to clinch a title shot. Te'o has a puncher's chance. He also may benefit from mea culpa votes from media members who missed the boat on ND in preseason and feel the need to repay them now. Will be interesting. Te'o will be at least 2nd, which is amazing. Manziel I give a 90% chance to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious_ND Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 But that's the thing - the Heisman isn't a "me" award. It's an award to the entire football program and the university. The player gets it and keeps it forever, yes, and it's his name on it, but the university's name is on there too, and it's part of their lore forever. It's something they can say to recruits forever. When ND says how many Heisman winners and all-americans they've had, does it sound like they're talking about "me" awards? Awards award the school. Similarly, a player going in the first round awards the school, even if it's a me thing for the player; and so does NFL success of certain players. All this stuff belongs to ND. Montana winning Super Bowls? That was ours. Bettis? That was ours. And so on with all the Heismans and all-american selections, and coach of the year awards. It all adds to the prestige of the program. seriously when the rocket didnt win it, that award lost all cred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratey Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 When Case Keenum was Sumlin's QB at Houston, he put up crazy huge stats but people discounted him because, "It was a product of the system." But Johnny "Football" isn't a system QB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialFNK Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) one thing that could work in Manti's favour. the one announcer said last night there are some voters who will not vote for a freshman. why does Manziel get so much love anyway? passing yards. 3419. 14th in FBS. TD. 24. 24th in FBS. QB rating. 155.9. 18th in FBS. (unless I'm missing something. looking at stats on ESPN.com) EDIT: I didn't include his rushing. what about Aaron Murray from Georgia. 3201 yards, 30 TD (10th), QB rating 177.1 (1st) I would still vote for Manti, most outstanding player. Edited November 25, 2012 by SpecialFNK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanDiegoIrish Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 If Te'o doesn't win, then the award means nothing in my mind. Like BK said, just cut to the chase and make it just another award for offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialFNK Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I feel like this is a stupid question. but where do you find out how many overall tackles Manti had for the season? and who are the season leaders? all I can find is tackles for loss, and INT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratey Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I feel like this is a stupid question. but where do you find out how many overall tackles Manti had for the season? and who are the season leaders? all I can find is tackles for loss, and INT. http://Http://cfbstats.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialFNK Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 http://Http://cfbstats.com thanks. I haven't really been keeping track of Manti's tackles or any other players in the league. but I have to say where Manti ranks doesn't look all that impressive. solo tackles. Manti has 52, tied for 96th overall. assisted tackles. Manti has 51, tied for 64th overall. combined tackles. Manti has 103, tied for 51st overall. he is tied for 2nd overall with 7 INT, although 0 for TD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishrb Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 thanks. I haven't really been keeping track of Manti's tackles or any other players in the league. but I have to say where Manti ranks doesn't look all that impressive. solo tackles. Manti has 52, tied for 96th overall. assisted tackles. Manti has 51, tied for 64th overall. combined tackles. Manti has 103, tied for 51st overall. he is tied for 2nd overall with 7 INT, although 0 for TD. There is NO DOUBT that Manti is the heart and soul of this team and he is an awesome player but I just don't see him getting the Heisman because of these stats. He just doesn't have the stats to get it. Who is the best player in college football this year? Probably Manti, but the stats just aren't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian_nd88 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 one thing that could work in Manti's favour. the one announcer said last night there are some voters who will not vote for a freshman. why does Manziel get so much love anyway? passing yards. 3419. 14th in FBS. TD. 24. 24th in FBS. QB rating. 155.9. 18th in FBS. (unless I'm missing something. looking at stats on ESPN.com) EDIT: I didn't include his rushing. what about Aaron Murray from Georgia. 3201 yards, 30 TD (10th), QB rating 177.1 (1st) I would still vote for Manti, most outstanding player. i think it is not just the passing records, but also that he ran for over 1000 yards. the combo of over 3000 yards with the over 1000 yards rushing is the truly impressive part. i think he leads the sec in rushing. that being said i want it for manti, but it's probably a long shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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