Pre-Season polls

[piratey]

The next time, a pre-season poll comes out and someone makes any comment alluding to them not mattering needs to be slapped and/or put on forum suspension. The reason ND is ranked 4th in the Harris and Coaches poll, and thus might finished a regular season undefeated and not be invited to a NC game, is because we were ranked behind Oregon and Kansas State to start the season.

 

This business of "Oh I like being unranked so we sneak up on teams" or "Just win out" is horse sh!t. I understand there are 4-5 games left. I understand a lot can happen. But if KSU, Oregon and us finish undefeated, we ARE getting left out because the 2/3's of the equation that consist of the human element, aren't going to have us leapfrog a team that also won.

Edited October 29, 2012 by piratey

[CelticImport]

Piratey, yours is a strong argument.

 

As you say, plenty of time to play out -

and hopefully nightmare situation is avoided.

(Going unbeaten yet being on the outside looking in)

 

Part of the problem is that ND hadn't shown it belonged.

Four lousy losses last season then a bowl loss didn't help.

 

Going forward it will be hard for anyone to keep ND off their ballots, even for stupid preseason polls.

 

I still hate that ND schedules real schools and others dance to their 'unbeaten' records after fattening up on cupcakes. Don't know the fix to that.

[OntarioIrish]

The next time, a pre-season poll comes out and someone makes any comment alluding to them not mattering needs to be slapped and/or put on forum suspension. The reason ND is ranked 4th in the Harris and Coaches poll, and thus might finished a regular season undefeated and not be invited to a NC game, is because we were ranked behind Oregon and Kansas State to start the season.

 

This business of "Oh I like being unranked so we sneak up on teams" or "Just win out" is horse sh!t. I understand there are 4-5 games left. I understand a lot can happen. But if KSU, Oregon and us finish undefeated, we ARE getting left out because the 2/3's of the equation that consist of the human element, aren't going to have us leapfrog a team that also won.

 

+1. K-State was preseason #17 vs. ND unranked - not hard to see how that has worked out....

[irishrb]

This will sort itself out. Upsets will happen...Let's just hope ND isn't one of them!

[piratey]

+1. K-State was preseason #17 vs. ND unranked - not hard to see how that has worked out....

 

Yup. And Oregon is ranked 2nd in the human polls because they started ranked 5th in the human polls.

 

I love the polls, I love pre-season polls. It adds intrigue to games and creates a level of importance to match-ups. But we might finish on the wrong side of the polls. Never, ever, ever wish your team to unranked or low ranked.

[BlackIrish42]

The next time, a pre-season poll comes out and someone makes any comment alluding to them not mattering needs to be slapped and/or put on forum suspension. The reason ND is ranked 4th in the Harris and Coaches poll, and thus might finished a regular season undefeated and not be invited to a NC game, is because we were ranked behind Oregon and Kansas State to start the season.

 

This business of "Oh I like being unranked so we sneak up on teams" or "Just win out" is horse sh!t. I understand there are 4-5 games left. I understand a lot can happen. But if KSU, Oregon and us finish undefeated, we ARE getting left out because the 2/3's of the equation that consist of the human element, aren't going to have us leapfrog a team that also won.

 

I have always said that too. Thought of it again today. Good for you reminding others...

[Phillydomer]

I have always said that too. Thought of it again today. Good for you reminding others...

 

Amen. What's so irritating about the situation is that Oregon is above us in the human polls right now, despite having no wins of any consequence whatsoever. All because they entered the season ranked more highly than we did. I'm irate over the fact that human voters are so impressed by the way they hung 70 on Colorado. Or by the fact that human voters have us behind KSU, despite the fact that our victory over OU was considerably more convincing than theirs. There's seriously some real bias out there against us right now.

[piratey]

Amen. What's so irritating about the situation is that Oregon is above us in the human polls right now, despite having no wins of any consequence whatsoever. All because they entered the season ranked more highly than we did. I'm irate over the fact that human voters are so impressed by the way they hung 70 on Colorado. Or by the fact that human voters have us behind KSU, despite the fact that our victory over OU was considerably more convincing than theirs. There's seriously some real bias out there against us right now.

 

There was a negative perception of us out there, that we were constantly overrated. The voters have tried to buck that trend by over compensating the other way. Now, even if we manage to win out, we need help.

[brian_nd88]

pre-season polls are based on the previous year which is why teams like msu and michigan were ranked so high. there may have been some backlash against notre dame for laying an egg year in and year out when we were ranked. in all honesty, notre dame's 2011 year wasnt anything that merited a pre-season ranking, especially after losing 2 games to end the year.

[hawaiiirish]

You guys seem to be worrying just a little too much IMHO.

 

First we haven't been good late in the year but one year in the last 15 or so-----and we had two losses in that year----expecting that we should have been HIGHLY SEEDED going into this year in the polls is just unrealistic. It is what it is--can't blame the voters pre-season for not ranking us, so there really is no justified complaint for early seeding.

 

As far as currently goes---i think we are suffering slightly from some anti-ND football bias that keeps a K state ahead of us---oregon has been simply SO FLASHY--was very good last year as well--its hard to blame folks for seeing them as the # 2 team despite the lack of big wins.

 

Back in the day when we were competing for national titles every year--then yes--early seeding can be a help or a hindrance depending----but today for this season--its really not a factor.

 

Only six undefeated teams left now---they have been dropping like flys for the last two weeks---IMHO this will continue albeit at a slower rate----by the time the pac 12 and sec title games are over---OUR TITLE CHANCES WILL ONLY DEPEND ON OUR DEFEATING USC---beyond that it will work out fine---attrition will OVERULE VOTERS---this week will see somebody go down--- don't be annoyed--don't be irritated---BE HAPPY-----things are going swimmingly ---keep winning and it all will belong to us!

 

aloha's

[Phillydomer]

Here are two thoughts:

 

1) What do you think about pollsters taking into account the cloud Oregon finds itself under in terms of the allegations of serious recruiting violations they have committed? On the one hand, it seems like it would be unfair to eliminate them from contention before an investigation; on the other hand, what if Oregon makes it to the BCS championship instead of KSU or ND and it's ultimately determined that they have to forfeit the wins that got them there in the first place.

 

2) When evaluating the top four teams, it seems fruitful to consider philosophical differences: Alabama and ND are led by their defenses. Oregon and KSU are led by their offenses. In the past two years, Oregon's high-octane attack has faltered when faced with the elite defenses of LSU and Auburn. It's not an accident the SEC has won the last half-dozen titles. My point is that, as the old cliche goes, defense wins championships. Oregon and KSU should be top five teams, but Alabama and ND should be 1 and 2.

[AtLeastMySisWasIrish]

Hindsight is always 20/20 my friends. This was a program getting alot of attention in the preseason for being greatly improved but based on the overhype of some programs on our schedule combined with an average W/L projection of 7-5 at best, there was little reason to rank the Irish in the pre-season. Combined with consecutive 8-5 seasons and an awful loss against FSU, no one was obliged to favor the Irish. Actually the way the formula works is our favor due to the difficulty of any team outside of Bama going 12-0. Don't forget about the confc championship games as well. For most teams, there is 4-5 more games to play and wile the Irish are in a good position to win out, can't say that for all the teams ahead of us. USC isn't going to roll over for us either so just win...all shall take care of itself...GO IRISH!

[corysold]

Right, but the issue isn't whether ND deserved a higher ranking or not, that is debatable.

 

The issue is this idea of people who wanted ND ranked lower do they could sneak up on people, or not fail to live up to hype.

 

None of it may matter in the end, but it might.

 

Bottom line is, you should always want your team ranked as high as possible, whether they deserve it or not.

[jessemoore97]

Here's a novel concept that I and others have mentioned before, but unfortunately won't ever happen, do away with preseason rankings. They mean absolutely nothing but to stir the pot. I know its hard for fans and schools to figure out their self worth without the press telling them so.

 

People want polls, make them for week 7-8, after half the season has been played and teams are in their conference schedules. Loading up on creampuffs and going 4-0 won't look as attractive to the rankings if you've got 1 or 2 losses in early conference play, hello Miss State. Base the rankings on an actual body of work from the current season and not how a team finished the year before. If polls were run like this I have no doubt the first one released would've had ND, KSU, and Florida ranked as the top three since they actually played a tough schedule to that point. Oregon and Bama would be somewhere in the next couple slots since they are undefeated but hadn't really played anyone by that point in time, Bama gets the nod above Oregon for at least playing UM early.

 

In the end its entirely too premature for us to worry about being left out of the NC game if we run the table. We have to run the table first, which is going to be a tall order IMO against our arch-rival, a pseudo rival(BC), and Pitt who is also kind of a rival given our frequency of playing one another. We need to take care of our business first and foremost in order to guarantee we have an arguments chance at season's end for being in the NC game.

 

Every year the media and fans work themselves into a F*ing tizzy about the undefeated teams, BCS and NC games, etc with still 4-5 games left. Yet pretty much every year the situation resolves itself pretty well. Let the season play all the way out first folks.

[piratey]

Here's a novel concept that I and others have mentioned before, but unfortunately won't ever happen, do away with preseason rankings. They mean absolutely nothing but to stir the pot. I know its hard for fans and schools to figure out their self worth without the press telling them so.

 

People want polls, make them for week 7-8, after half the season has been played and teams are in their conference schedules. Loading up on creampuffs and going 4-0 won't look as attractive to the rankings if you've got 1 or 2 losses in early conference play, hello Miss State. Base the rankings on an actual body of work from the current season and not how a team finished the year before. If polls were run like this I have no doubt the first one released would've had ND, KSU, and Florida ranked as the top three since they actually played a tough schedule to that point. Oregon and Bama would be somewhere in the next couple slots since they are undefeated but hadn't really played anyone by that point in time, Bama gets the nod above Oregon for at least playing UM early.

 

In the end its entirely too premature for us to worry about being left out of the NC game if we run the table. We have to run the table first, which is going to be a tall order IMO against our arch-rival, a pseudo rival(BC), and Pitt who is also kind of a rival given our frequency of playing one another. We need to take care of our business first and foremost in order to guarantee we have an arguments chance at season's end for being in the NC game.

 

Every year the media and fans work themselves into a F*ing tizzy about the undefeated teams, BCS and NC games, etc with still 4-5 games left. Yet pretty much every year the situation resolves itself pretty well. Let the season play all the way out first folks.

 

The problem is, polls are what I base which games I watch...They are what make college football more exciting than any other sport in the world. Removing the numbers early or going to a true playoff format would kill the sport.

 

If we can cap this season without shitting the bed against Pitt/BC/Wake, I doubt we'll have to worry about low rankings for a long while.

[IrishGuy]

Though I do agree that where you finish has a lot to do with where you start.....I also think ND struggling to put up points against PU, UM, MSU, Stanford, and BYU didn't help.

 

ND would be in a lot better shape if they managed to have anything that resembled an offense in a few of those games.

[piratey]

Though I do agree that where you finish has a lot to do with where you start.....I also think ND struggling to put up points against PU, UM, MSU, Stanford, and BYU didn't help.

 

ND would be in a lot better shape if they managed to have anything that resembled an offense in a few of those games.

 

I'll give you Purdue but...

 

MSU- 10th ranked scoring defense, 5th total defense

scUM- 14th ranked scoring defense, 9th total defense

*Stanford- 20th ranked scoring defense, 17th total defense

BYU- 7th ranked scoring defense, 4th total defense

 

*they would be 7th and 17th if not the 'Zona game

 

 

You sorta have to account for the teams we were playing and their strengths, which was defense. Which we got no benefit of the doubt because A.We started ranked low B.Voters are trying to combat the perception that they over rate us