Burning Time Outs

[97domer 89]

I've been getting frustrated with the continual burn of time outs on offense. I, personally, don't blame Golson on this. It seems to be a problem consistant with all QBs during Kelly's tenure. I have a couple of sincere questions...

 

1) It seems counter-intuitive that Notre Dame runs an offense that is supposed to be no-huddle / hurry-up, yet they continue to flirt with the play clock.

2) What is the root cause of this? Is the problem solely the coaches getting the plays in ontime? I find that hard to believe as they've had years to correct it. Possibly, it is a result of having 3 straight years with a QB new to starting in this system?

 

I'd be interested in thoughts...

[corysold 0]

Kelly did mention that this past week was partly an officiating issue. As Purdue subbed late, the officials held the ball, taking a few extra seconds before ND could start their check process.

 

Kelly was incensed once or twice on the sideline about it and Mayock mentioned it once during the broadcast, so there may be something to it.

 

However, there still seems to be an issue with the amount of communication they are trying to do.

 

Basically, they are subbing in the offensive package they want and lining up. Then they are waiting for the defense to respond. Then they are checking with the sideline, while Kelly is getting info from Martin in the booth about the defense and which play to run. Then they signal that play to Golson, then Golson signals that to the line.

 

That is a lot to get done in 40 seconds.

[OklahomaIrish 0]

It's the second game of the year with a freshman quarterback. We didn't run out of time outs. This should get better as this offense grows up. Saturday was a great teaching day and will really help against Michigan State.

[jarious 0]

It's the second game of the year with a freshman quarterback. We didn't run out of time outs. This should get better as this offense grows up. Saturday was a great teaching day and will really help against Michigan State.

 

Well, to be fair, we actually did run out of timeouts. Remember, Rees tried to pull a Chris Webber and call a timeout right before his prayer to Goodman was answered - but ND had none. IMO, the fact that ND had no timeouts going into the last drive was a factor in the consideration for TR over EG. Not the whole decision, but one factor.

 

It is a fair question on whether BK is trying to do too much pre-snap. I would like to see them become a little more judicious in the second half -- i.e. not burn a timeout on 2nd-and-16 early in the 3Q, but otherwise not a huge concern.

[VCDomer 75]

Well, to be fair, we actually did run out of timeouts. Remember, Rees tried to pull a Chris Webber and call a timeout right before his prayer to Goodman was answered - but ND had none. IMO, the fact that ND had no timeouts going into the last drive was a factor in the consideration for TR over EG. Not the whole decision, but one factor.

 

It is a fair question on whether BK is trying to do too much pre-snap. I would like to see them become a little more judicious in the second half -- i.e. not burn a timeout on 2nd-and-16 early in the 3Q, but otherwise not a huge concern.

 

Get the damn play off and beat your man!

[piratey 6]

Well, to be fair, we actually did run out of timeouts. Remember, Rees tried to pull a Chris Webber and call a timeout right before his prayer to Goodman was answered - but ND had none. IMO, the fact that ND had no timeouts going into the last drive was a factor in the consideration for TR over EG. Not the whole decision, but one factor.

 

It is a fair question on whether BK is trying to do too much pre-snap. I would like to see them become a little more judicious in the second half -- i.e. not burn a timeout on 2nd-and-16 early in the 3Q, but otherwise not a huge concern.

 

God, imagine if they threw the flag that was warranted on Rees and instead of that wounded duck, lucky ass play to Goodman, we get backed up to a 3rd and 11.

[corysold 0]

God, imagine if they threw the flag that was warranted on Rees and instead of that wounded duck, lucky ass play to Goodman, we get backed up to a 3rd and 11.

 

ND nation armageddon would have ensued.

[Donjuan 16]

Well, to be fair, we actually did run out of timeouts. Remember, Rees tried to pull a Chris Webber and call a timeout right before his prayer to Goodman was answered - but ND had none.

 

Everyone should go and watch that replay. You'll change your mind real fast regarding whether or not that was a mistaken/lucky play. First of all, if you have no timeouts left and you call one, the refs are told to simply ignore you. This isn't like basketball or Chris Webber where you get a techinical foul/personal foul. Nothing happens. And I was told the ref took increasingly long on this play as he stood over the ball until 12 seconds remained for Rees so they were a little lenient with the playclock for that reason. (this could be bullshit for all I know though, just take it for what it's worth. no penalty was called)

 

Rees knew we had no timeouts left and is evident by his really quick "timeout" hand-motion to the sideline (Purdue defense reacts quizzical and some of them even stand up out of their stance to figure out what's going on) and then within a split second during this defensive confusion, Cave snaps the ball to Rees without any hesitation or miscue and Tommy throws a quick floater to Goodman against blitzing pressure. (his timeout-motion was unlike any other time he's called a timeout. it was really rushed and fast as if he was faking a timeout, knowing nothing would be called because of it. he never even looked to the ref)

 

And yes, that play against a safety blitz off the edge is intended to be thrown softly behind the WR who then turns on a dime and catches it before the DB has any chance to make a play. This timeout ordeal was mentioned by Danny Hope after the game as a ruse by Rees to momentarily confuse the defense and then exploit them for the first-down. If you watch it again, you'll see what Hope and others are talking about. You'll even see how that pass to Goodman was a quickly timed pass, as Goodman spins at the exact right time to make the play. I just think Rees wasn't as accurate as he wanted to be as the safety was right in his face. Still not sure how he even got rid of the ball.

 

All in all, we are very fortunate for this victory. I think it was good for ND to be challenged like this though before all the dogs come to the yard. Perhaps they'll be better prepared than a team who's hasn't experienced this type of adversity yet?? One can hope.

[nd1baby 0]

Donjuan - that is some impressive deduction on your part. Thank you!

[corysold 0]

That would be a great theory if Goodman wasn't just as confused as everyone else.

 

I just watched the replay, he doesn't get his head all the way to the ref, but he is certainly headed that way.

 

I mean, you are basically saying that with one second on the playclock, he had the thought to call a fake timeout, knowing that they would give him the benefit of the doubt on the play clock going to 0 because they stood over the ball too long, instead of just calling for the snap.

 

I know Tommy is very smart and a has a lot of guile, but this one is over the top. How about we just say the play clock gods owed us one from Mich. St. a few years back and now we are even?

Edited September 10, 2012 by corysold

[Donjuan 16]

That would be a great theory if Goodman wasn't just as confused as everyone else.

 

I just watched the replay, he doesn't get his head all the way to the ref, but he is certainly headed that way.

 

I mean, you are basically saying that with one second on the playclock, he had the thought to call a fake timeout, knowing that they would give him the benefit of the doubt on the play clock going to 0 because they stood over the ball too long, instead of just calling for the snap.

 

I know Tommy is very smart and a has a lot of guile, but this one is over the top. How about we just say the play clock gods owed us one from Mich. St. a few years back and now we are even?

 

 

What I'm saying is ND planned on faking a timeout call to kind of freeze the defense. Tommy just got caught up with the clock running out. But he pulled it off and ND didn't get the penalty. You don't have to take my word on it. Hope noticed it (as well as some of his staff) and mentioned it in his post-game presser. And after watching it, It did indeed look like a fake. Just happened to be when the clock actually expired.

[2lakes 4]

What I'm saying is ND planned on faking a timeout call to kind of freeze the defense. Tommy just got caught up with the clock running out. But he pulled it off and ND didn't get the penalty. You don't have to take my word on it. Hope noticed it (as well as some of his staff) and mentioned it in his post-game presser. And after watching it, It did indeed look like a fake. Just happened to be when the clock actually expired.

 

There is a part of me that has considered both of these conspiracy theories, that ND sandbagged the Purdue game and that the called time out was a ruse; and that part of me would really like to buy into them. After all, there is a reason we, as humans, consider these things: because there are conspiracies (trickery, if you will) out there in the world and in team sports. According to Rockne, "The essence of football was blocking, tackling, and execution based on timing, rhythm and deception."

 

Usually, however, the conspiracy is not. I guess it all comes down to how you picture Coach Kelly...

[Donjuan 16]

There is a part of me that has considered both of these conspiracy theories, that ND sandbagged the Purdue game and that the called time out was a ruse; and that part of me would really like to buy into them. After all, there is a reason we, as humans, consider these things: because there are conspiracies (trickery, if you will) out there in the world and in team sports. According to Rockne, "The essence of football was blocking, tackling, and execution based on timing, rhythm and deception."

 

Usually, however, the conspiracy is not. I guess it all comes down to how you picture Coach Kelly...

 

I tend to not believe all these types of things, but after watching Tommy Rees make the quickest decision in Tommy Rees history (it's Tommy Rees folks) without effing it all up, and then performing his "hot-read" a split-second later without any snap delay or confusion; I accept what Danny Hope and his staff saw and interpreted to be some sort of "fake." Rees simply does not pull that off without making a cataclysmic error. It's in his genes to do so in time of great pressure...

 

**and yes, I consider Brian Kelly to be a sneaky, behind-your-back type when it comes to coaching...

[marcwithglasses 0]

this has been going on since bk has been there and for no rhyme or reason. the offense has no tempo and they're against the play clock every single snap of the game.

with the pedestrian plays they're calling what is the hold up on the sideline? they aren't running an oregon offense, it's about as basic as it can be.

just wish we'd get some more yards after the catch type plays over the middle and slants instead of a catch and getting tackled.

however, 2-0 is 2-0, so until they disappoint i'm riding this as long as it goes.

[piratey 6]

this has been going on since bk has been there and for no rhyme or reason. the offense has no tempo and they're against the play clock every single snap of the game.

with the pedestrian plays they're calling what is the hold up on the sideline? they aren't running an oregon offense, it's about as basic as it can be.

just wish we'd get some more yards after the catch type plays over the middle and slants instead of a catch and getting tackled.

however, 2-0 is 2-0, so until they disappoint i'm riding this as long as it goes.

 

I wish it was Oregon. Oregon only runs 4-5 plays with a handful of variations, it's the simplest offense in CFB and that simplicity means everything goes at warp speed

[corysold 0]

I wish it was Oregon. Oregon only runs 4-5 plays with a handful of variations, it's the simplest offense in CFB and that simplicity means everything goes at warp speed

 

That and they are always dictating to the defense. Our offense is much to reactionary at this point for my taste.

[TheGipperSB 0]

That and they are always dictating to the defense. Our offense is much to reactionary at this point for my taste.

 

A huge part of Oregon's offense is the zone read option, we all saw how that worked out when ND tried to run it on Golson's last play.