Has it been too long

[Morgandonor]

I really ponder this thought a lot. Has it been to long that we can not recognize how good we are. I mean we speculate a lot on this board, we don't want to drink the kool aid or whatever. We always over analyze everything. We continue to say things like, " our backs are good but..." then come the barrage of negative nellies. 20 years of ups and downs can do that to you I guess.

[SpeedsterX]

I think we all know what an elite team looks like and if we are really honest with ourselves, we know we aren't there right now. We've been fooled a few times before.

 

Ty thought he had it but we all knew it was smoke and mirrors when the defense was scoring more than the offense.

 

Charlie had it in his hands in '05 but lost his grip.

 

I'll say this, Kelly may not take us to a NC but he is a better all around coach than we've had since Lou. Kelly is taking on the challenge that Urban was too scared and lazy to do! Kelly is putting us back on a solid foundation and it boggles my mind that those idiots at TOS already wants his head. They were probably the same people that ran Lou out of town on a rail because he had a few down years but not losing seasons.

 

Whether Kelly takes us there or not, he is making damn sure that we are The Notre Dame Fighting Irish of lore again!

[hawaiiirish]

I think we looked pretty freakin good morgandonor---

 

How good are we?

 

We will know that in three weeks---patience my friend

 

aloha's go irish!

[FaithInIrish Forever]

Are we there? No

 

Do we have the ingredients? Heck Yes

 

Can Kelly put it together? His past says so.

 

Does this team look bigger, faster, stronger and deeper. Absolfreakin'lutely

 

My solution is still sit back. relax and watch for the next 10 years, history will reward ND if they are patient

[OklahomaIrish]

I think we are top ten right now. I think we beat Michigan State and Michigan.

[cali_domer]

I think we are top ten right now. I think we beat Michigan State and Michigan.

 

I want to beat Purdue first;)

 

I have over the years become a waiting for the other shoe to drop kind of guy. I am worried about Purdue.. I love your optimism though Okie.:cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:

[cameroncrazy]

If they go 4-0 maybe then I'll start to believe a little bit, I don't think we're going to win any titles soon, but I do think we'll start to see ND consistently be a top 15 team as they should be. I'm excited about what Kelly is doing and this team just very apprehensive to believe the hype because that's when the losses hurt the most.

[Rocketsan]

When I watch teams in the SEC, I don't see us comparing or competing at that level.

 

I also think my personal opinion of where we are at gets clouded by hanging out here. I tend to sit on the fence on where we are really at right now. I loathe both sides of the debate, the realists vs. the homers, though the inner core of my being encompasses some of both camps.

 

I clearly remember the greatness of the late '80's - early '90's more so for the talented players that pulled on the gold helmet. I remember less records and wins (save for the most memorable of games like 1992 Penn State and 1993 FSU).

 

What I do remember is the mind set and chemistry of those teams. They were cohesive, confident and they brought an effort on every down. This is something I see in this year's team.

 

I have been asking for a team to come out of the tunnel pumped up for many many years. I long for days past when a 5 foot 9 inch gnome of a man could barely hold back his team from running out of the tunnel.

 

I think you will see a fired up emotional team burst out of the tunnel Saturday afternoon. In that aspect...we are back. And that will start translating into the winning spirit.

[WilhelmD]

those idiots at TOS already wants his head.

 

TOS??? Translation for MLM . . . (morons like me)

[corysold]

Hmm. A very interesting question. How will we know ND has turned the corner? I touched on some of these topics in a thread last week.

 

We are all smart enough I think to see that ND isn't in the very elite of football at this point. Alabama and LSU are at a different level than ND, and most every other program in America. That is a fact. However, the question then becomes, how much different is ND than the rest of the top 10 teams?

 

It is obvious ND is making progress. As I said before, the fact we are bemoaning any negatives at all in a 40 point, somewhat historic in its dominance, type of win says a lot.

 

So what is different between ND and the rest of the top 10 teams?

 

To start with Alabama/LSU, the answer is defense. They both have defenses superior to any in the country, mostly because of the defensive lines they put together, but overall defensive speed is much better than ND.

 

ND is making some strides in this department. Guys like Tuitt are SEC material. Manti could play for Alabama/LSU. I think Nix would be in rotation for those teams. Ishaq is the kind of player Saban develops into a monster.

 

So ND is starting to get some of those type players. The question will always be, can they get enough of them?

 

So to leave Alabama/LSU, which are clearly ahead of ND at this point, and look at the remaining top 10 teams. What separates them from ND? I don't think it is as much as many would think.

 

Look at USC. If you take away Woods, Lee and Barkley, which offense would you rather have, them or ND? I think ND has the better line, better RB group and better TE's. So the difference between ND and USC on offense is basically a developed QB and two elite WR. ND has had elite QB's in the recent past and elite WR. They just didn't have them in conjunction with a great O-Line and RB. Offense has rarely been the problem at ND and I think we will see as the QB position develops under Kelly, that will continue to be the case.

 

Oregon has more offensive speed than ND, but I think guys like Neal and Brown can help to close that gap. Offense isn't solely about speed, and teams like Wisconsin show you can win a number of ways.

 

The main point is, get ND a solid QB and they will compete offensively with most any team in the top 10. Will some teams have better offenses, sure, but they are cyclical. USC isn't going be near the same offensive team next year.

 

The next step would be defense. There are top 10 teams with better defenses than ND, namely FSU, Alabama, LSU and Georgia. But I would take ND's defense over teams like W. Virginia, Oregon, maybe USC, etc.

 

I see an ND team that took FSU to the wire last year with no help from the QB. That same FSU team is now number 6 in the nation. Is that gap between ND and FSU really that big?

 

Take Michigan St. They are nearly a top 10 team, who beat Georgia, that ND beat last year and I would expect a good game this year.

 

I am not suggesting ND would beat every team in the top 10, but other than the top 4, who are in a different class, is there is a team that you are absolutely certain ND couldn't beat?

 

The difference then comes down to consistency. ND has a talented team. They have players all over than would play for most of the top 10 teams in the country. The problem is they haven't shown the consistency yet to be considered among those teams. Hopefully that is coming. Having consistency at the QB position will certainly help in that matter.

 

To summarize, I do think ND has the parts of a top 10 team, similar in many regards to other top 10 teams. They have strengths and weaknesses as does every other top 10 team. The difference is those teams have shown an ability to play at a consistently high level every week. ND hasn't. ND will beat top 10 Mich. St. handily one week and lose the next to an inferior team. Top 10 teams lose games to other good teams, they don't lose game to clearly inferior opponents often.

 

That is what ND is lacking right now, the consistency to play at a high level every week. Once they get that, this team, as assembled and as it progresses, will be a top 10 team.

 

Will they be elite, as in top 2 or 3? I don't know, but elite teams are basically top 10 teams that have a great year or two, so who knows.

[AtLeastMySisWasIrish]

Wow Rocket, where's my favorite crabby Canadian? Very articulate and thought out post...to paraphrase Dylan, are the times a changing?

Actually great post but not sure if we need to keep using the SEC as a barometer to how we fare. Yes, our ultimate goal year in and year out is to win the championship but the dymanic has changed so much off the field. We need not rely on the excuse we recruit smart yet less talented players as both Weis and now Kelly are refuting that notion. We are recruiting very, very talented young men capable of excelling both on the field and in the classroom. However we need to hit at a much higher rate on the kids we offer versus schools with lesser academic standards. Our pool of candidates is vastly smaller than those of whom we now campare ourselves to on the field. Combined with other academic schools beginning to draw from our pool makes the job that much tougher for our staff. It is not an excuse but pretty damn tough to be perfect every day but something we must do to stay at the top. The earlier post about home field advantage also comes into play in that we no longer strike fear in the minds of our opponents. That needs to change and one of the key elements Kelly is trying to do but due to being "wed" to tradition, he is facing more resistance from within than from out. Bottom line, realistic expectations for ND is to increase the amount of signature wins and consistently defeat the teams we are better than. That is what Lou did and why we were in the hunt with him at the helm more often than not. However anyone around the program then, as I was, knew Lou was ruffling some feathers and why the administration seemed to over do it in finding coaches who were better suited at maintaining the integrity of the institution versus going balls out to win on the field. Charlie tried but he spent as much time fighting with Res Life, on the rubber chicken circuit restoring interest in the program etc and easy to see why he didn't succeed. However with Kelly we may have found the answer and believe he will position us to be the best we can be and get us back into the national debate about relevance vs are we still worthy of our exposure. I've posted before that patience is not a part of the ND fan's vocabulary but really is what is needed now. We have an insecurity complex second to none in football and the only thing which will cure it is to win. Problem is and Kelly alluded to it, we need our palyers to understand we are better than the team we are playing which I see beginning to take shape with our current roster and incoming recruits. ND can and will succeed and beat a top tier SEC team every now and then but we need to be consistent winners of the non SEC championsip. Titles are the ultimate goal but finishing second aint all that bad either in today's landscape. Nothing lasts forever and ND has proven to have great sustainability so when the landscape changes yet again, let's trust that we will be standing front and center and a title returned to ND.

Edited September 6, 2012 by AtLeastMySisWasIrish

[chirodomer]

I think the thing that is missing is the "Magic" that Lou Holtz brought to the team. We could be down by 20 and then Lou would bend down and start picking grass. I clearly remember watching games with friends from opposing teams and they would go bat shit crazy when Lou started picking grass Bc they "KNEW" that was Lou "starting a Cracken" and then he would will them to victory. Any given day we could beat anyone in the country. BTK just needs to get over the hump this season and then he will have two to three special weapons waiting for deployment and we will rise again!

[irishrush]

I have been thinking about this recently. Do you guys think our team in '88 had more talent than Miami or USC? I don't think we did at that point. I think we had a good team that played well together, got a few breaks and was superiorly motivated by a great coach.

I think in the few years after that, we did have superior talent as Lou continued to bring in studs , but not in 88.

I don't think we will ever have the talent that the SEC teams have now. I can only hope we will have one of those seasons soon, that our pretty good team can rise up and beat the teams that we are not supposed to beat and have a magical year.

[jlgyork]

TOS??? Translation for MLM . . . (morons like me)

 

TOS - The Other Site

[IanY77]

TOS??? Translation for MLM . . . (morons like me)

 

"The/That Other Site". I'm not a fan of that designation since there's, y'know, more than two ND sites. In this case, I believe he was referring to NDNation.