In the "Disappointment" thread, there was a point made about being dumb if satisfied w/ "10-2 or 9-3" seasons. I wanted to immediately respond in defense of Weis, but I decided to do some research and find out just how many powerhouse programs have had two or three losses each year in recent history. First, I found that Mack Brown started at Texas by going 9-3, 9-5, 9-3, 11-2, 11-2, and 10-3 in his first 6 seasons. In 6 seasons at the talent loaded state of Texas, he lost 3 games a season with a team that was far from having the issues ND had when Weis took over. He didn't have to fill the roster w/ talent AND bodies in numbers, he just had to coach and continue recruiting talent to Texas. Even after his National Title, he had two 10-3 seasons in a row. In the 2005 season, 4 years removed from a Title at Oklahoma, Bob Stoops went 8-4, 11-3, and 11-3. Tom Osborne averaged almost 3 losses a season for his first 9 at Nebraska and they were a powerhouse. Patience my friends, patience. Rome was not built in a day, rebuilding ND was not going to happen overnight no matter who was coaching. No one here knows what its like to coach at ND, no one here is even close to know what its like to rebuild a fallen program facing a schedule that NEVER overlooks ND. It is disheartening to think a keyboard and an opinion can send such a negative message of Weis and the program without having the credentials to back a word that is being said. I don't pretend to know all or think things are perfect at ND, and I have my frustrations with things, but it would be nice to see Weis, a good coach, backed by ND fans. We are playing well, we are making progress, we are restocking the shelves, we are building for the future...some support from our FANS would go a long way! GO IRISH

In the "Disappointment" thread, there was a point made about being dumb if satisfied w/ "10-2 or 9-3" seasons. I wanted to immediately respond in defense of Weis, but I decided to do some research and find out just how many powerhouse programs have had two or three losses each year in recent history. First, I found that Mack Brown started at Texas by going 9-3, 9-5, 9-3, 11-2, 11-2, and 10-3 in his first 6 seasons. In 6 seasons at the talent loaded state of Texas, he lost 3 games a season with a team that was far from having the issues ND had when Weis took over. He didn't have to fill the roster w/ talent AND bodies in numbers, he just had to coach and continue recruiting talent to Texas. Even after his National Title, he had two 10-3 seasons in a row. In the 2005 season, 4 years removed from a Title at Oklahoma, Bob Stoops went 8-4, 11-3, and 11-3. Tom Osborne averaged almost 3 losses a season for his first 9 at Nebraska and they were a powerhouse. Patience my friends, patience. Rome was not built in a day, rebuilding ND was not going to happen overnight no matter who was coaching. No one here knows what its like to coach at ND, no one here is even close to know what its like to rebuild a fallen program facing a schedule that NEVER overlooks ND. It is disheartening to think a keyboard and an opinion can send such a negative message of Weis and the program without having the credentials to back a word that is being said. I don't pretend to know all or think things are perfect at ND, and I have my frustrations with things, but it would be nice to see Weis, a good coach, backed by ND fans. We are playing well, we are making progress, we are restocking the shelves, we are building for the future...some support from our FANS would go a long way! GO IRISH

 

EXCELLENT POST!!! Just add to your point with MB, he had the s:censored:t STOMPED out of him by his main rival several times. I remember BSPN talking about the OU game when Applegate was the QB 03 maybe 04 and this was going to be the year Texas got over the hump and beat the Sooners!!! Somebody forgot to tell Stoops cuz they beat the shorthorns 65-13!!

Edited November 5, 200915 yr by ND FANATIC

Excellent Post! I agree.

All you have to do is go back to the gold standard - Holtz, who regularly had 3 loss seasons.

All you have to do is go back to the gold standard - Holtz, who regularly had 3 loss seasons.

 

Holtz had tougher schedules and he beat some incredible teams FSU/miami.. the question is can Weis beat a team that finishes with a solid record.? that question still looms.

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Edited March 27, 201113 yr by Tenacious_ND

Tougher schedules is arguable. Losing to Northwestern was impressive...

This was a very good post. What I see with Weis is that we continue to get better as the better

athletes fill up the cupboard. With one more year of stellar recruiting we are back on par with anyone

in the country. Notre Dame needs to be a great passing team to overcome bogus holding calls and

Charlie Weis is the man when it comes to throwing the ball.

Quick question Tenacious: Have you said anything positive (in any post) in the past few weeks? It just seems that you are not only unhappy with Weis but with virtually everything else as well.

 

care to give me some examples? im very happy but also very opinionated. theres a difference.. just because im not in Love with WEis, doesnt mean im not happy.

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Edited March 27, 201113 yr by Tenacious_ND

Tougher schedules is arguable. Losing to Northwestern was impressive...

 

Northwestern went on to beat PSU and Michigan that year and won the big 10, they were ranked #3 going into the rose bowl, lost to USC and ended with a final ranking of #8 with a 10-2 recored, yeah that was a horrible loss. nothing compared to Losing to Navy and a Dead Duck Syracuse @ home. I think its that kind of Weis homerism that doesnt really help.

 

are you really going to compare Weis to Holtz?? that is laughable. WEis will never be in the same universe as Holtz.

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Edited March 27, 201113 yr by Tenacious_ND

POST OF THE YEAR! Great job on the research stokes. As even Doug Gotleib said the other day on his radio show -- "the days of ND losing 4-5 games per year is over". From this point forward, Weis will lead this program to at least 9 wins EVERY season with an national title run about every 2-3 years.

 

Just my opinion.

You have to realize that the college football landscape has changed a lot since the days of Holtz. When he was the coach, ND was the only option if you wanted to be on TV week in/week out. Now, all of the top teams have all of their games locally televised and most shown nationally. ND was also the only program to really recruit nationally. Now, all of the top teams are attempting to recruit nationally (but obviously still rely on the locals for the majority of their players.)

 

yeah i agree exposure has gone up drastically, but the biggest change is probably scholarship limits. we have Parity now. Dont you think taking a crack at Holtz for losing to a good NW team is ridiculous.

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Edited March 27, 201113 yr by Tenacious_ND

I had my gripes with Holtz every year, but with Holtz I always knew we would show up for big games. How many elite teams did the guy beat while at ND? He was known for overachieving and adjusting at halftime, two things that I think are missing with the current leadership. Holtz lost a wealth of talent after the 92 season, then loses his starting QB in fall practice and what does he do? He takes a bunch of no names on a magical season, beats a top 5 Michigan team in Ann Arbor, beats the "team of the century" Florida State and was a field goal away from another national title.

 

In 10 seasons Holtz had 2 horrible years- 5-6 (his first year where despite one of the toughest schedules they never lost by more than 4 points) and 6-5-1 in 94. Losing to Northwestern hurt at the time, as TND mentioned they were a top 10 team that went to the Rose Bowl.

Holtz: we always had a chance and usually won against the best teams on our schedule.

 

Weis: 5 years in and no marquee wins but hey *we played USC close twice*

 

I don't think its fair to even compare at this point.

At least Weis hasn't put this team on probation, like a certain HOF head coach.Cough Lou Holtz" Cough. I love Lou but he is not the saint that he has been painted to be.

At least Weis hasn't put this team on probation, like a certain HOF head coach.Cough Lou Holtz" Cough. I love Lou but he is not the saint that he has been painted to be.

 

yeah because i think it was lou holtz's fault.. --->http://www.nytimes.com/1999/12/18/sports/football-ncaa-puts-notre-dame-football-on-probation.html again Lou never lost to Navy, won a title and beat top teams cant say that for Mr. sue your doctors after voluntary surgery!

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Edited March 27, 201113 yr by Tenacious_ND

yeah because i think it was lou holtz's fault.. --->http://www.nytimes.com/1999/12/18/sports/football-ncaa-puts-notre-dame-football-on-probation.html again Lou never lost to Navy, won a title and beat top teams cant say that for Mr. sue your doctors after voluntary surgery!

 

hahah, these posts are the closest i have yet seen you get to actually being positive about anything ND football related... you liked holtz... well that's good, im glad there is an ND fan in there somewhere...

are you really going to compare Weis to Holtz?? that is laughable. WEis will never be in the same universe as Holtz.

 

Dude,

 

Holtz beat some damn good teams and we are all very proud of what he accomplished but he also had talent.

 

Rocket, Tim Brown, Ricky Watters, Bobby Taylor, Bettis, Lyght, Stonebreaker, Rice, Frank Stams, Reggie Brooks, Chris Zorich, Aaron Taylor,

 

Plus Holtz had a kick ass D coordinator in Barry Alzarez when they won the NC.

 

All that being said, I agree that results are results and Weis isn't in Holtz's class yet. I disagree with you in that I believe Weis is headed in the right direction.