...just go ahead and read these stats from last week's game. And yes I'm using last week's game only because it should be a measuring stick for our team...don't really care about how well they played against Nevada or MSU.

 

http://www.ndnation.com/boards/showpost.php?b=football;pid=213403;d=this

...just go ahead and read these stats from last week's game. And yes I'm using last week's game only because it should be a measuring stick for our team...don't really care about how well they played against Nevada or MSU.

 

http://www.ndnation.com/boards/showpost.php?b=football;pid=213403;d=this

 

 

at least 2 of those sacks were coverage sacks thats what happens when you only bring 4 and drop 7 sometimes there isn't an open receiver and the QB holds onto the ball too long. Lets start picking apart the water boys.....they have not improved at all since last year they were slow last year but this year is even worse I even saw one drop a bottle of water this past Saturday....fire Weis....Fire whoever hired the water boys this has to be stopped.

at least 2 of those sacks were coverage sacks thats what happens when you only bring 4 and drop 7 sometimes there isn't an open receiver and the QB holds onto the ball too long. Lets start picking apart the water boys.....they have not improved at all since last year they were slow last year but this year is even worse I even saw one drop a bottle of water this past Saturday....fire Weis....Fire whoever hired the water boys this has to be stopped.

 

 

It's a sad day when you can't point out an obvious flaw and suggest needed improvemant without getting retorts about the defense cost us the game (this thread has nothing to do with our crappy defense), and it was Jimmy's happy feet. Do I need to post the video showing our offensive line being pushed around? It's almost like nobody watched the game. I understand over all that the offensive line doesn't suck donkey balls like last year, but is that really what they should be held accountable for? Being better than last year or not sucking as bad?

 

The proof is not going to be played out against Nevada, UDub, UM or MSU. The truth is going to be shown when you play USC. We played USC and our offensive line sucked. If you don't believe me, I'll go find the yackity-sax YouTube video of it and then you can tell me that they were all off-sides, or that Jimmy had bad pocket-presence, or that there was a phantom blitzer...etc.

 

Improvement has been made, undoubtably. But against our rivals (our measuring stick for on-field success) it shows how much we're still behind.

It's a sad day when you can't point out an obvious flaw and suggest needed improvemant without getting retorts about the defense cost us the game (this thread has nothing to do with our crappy defense), and it was Jimmy's happy feet. Do I need to post the video showing our offensive line being pushed around? It's almost like nobody watched the game. I understand over all that the offensive line doesn't suck donkey balls like last year, but is that really what they should be held accountable for? Being better than last year or not sucking as bad?

 

The proof is not going to be played out against Nevada, UDub, UM or MSU. The truth is going to be shown when you play USC. We played USC and our offensive line sucked. If you don't believe me, I'll go find the yackity-sax YouTube video of it and then you can tell me that they were all off-sides, or that Jimmy had bad pocket-presence, or that there was a phantom blitzer...etc.

 

Improvement has been made, undoubtably. But against our rivals (our measuring stick for on-field success) it shows how much we're still behind.

 

Why don't you compare the statistics from last years game with USC vs this years game vs USC....to me that would be a fair comparison. Lets see we didn't get a first down until like the 3rd quarter and this year we scored 4 touchdowns....nope no improvement....we didn't dominate one of the best d-lines in the NCAA....all is lost....give up....its over.

 

USC has had nearly 10 years of pulling elite talent and continuity with a coaching staff. We have had all of maybe 3 or 4 years of close to elite talent. two of those years those elite players didn't have the luxury of practicing against other elite older players and learning they had to play right away....we still are not up to USC's talent level and experience....we are getting there but not quite yet.

 

I don't understand why this fanbase after enduring nearly 15 years of mediocrity expects to go from mediocre to elite over night. Its being built from the ground up....has it been perfect no....but damnit it is getting there....have patience. that is the problem with the world they want the easy way out. the quick fix....no backbone.

you go money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

USC has had nearly 10 years of pulling elite talent and continuity with a coaching staff. We have had all of maybe 3 or 4 years of close to elite talent. two of those years those elite players didn't have the luxury of practicing against other elite older players and learning they had to play right away....we still are not up to USC's talent level and experience....we are getting there but not quite yet.

 

 

Amen, Money. I've been shaking my head at the naysayers for a couple of years now for their inability to understand this concept. I've been coaching youth sports for almost 20 years now and without exception, the best teams with which I've been associated over those years were not the ones with the best individual stars, but the ones that had both real competition for starting positions and an opportunity to practice against quality athletes. Sure, a superior individual talent may occasionally bring glory, but such moments are usually short-lived if the whole team can't provide the sort of practice looks that imitate game action. (See, for example, Arrelious Benn and Illinois). When a player can dominate (or not) in practice without fear of being replaced or challenged, gameday matchups with other equally talented players often prove disastrous.

 

As Notre Dame recruiting as reached more consistent levels of excellence and players have matured with the opportunity to compete with and challenge equally talented players, we've seen the steady progress that should be expected. Anyone who thought that our O-lines and D-lines would stand up to the rigors of D-I (or whatever it's called now) football in the very recent past when we couldn't even field a two-deep of scholarship players on those units was dreaming. Are our lines the equal to Southern Cal's yet? Of course not. But they damn sure are gaining and if we can continue to draw top talent into the fold year by year, and that talent is given the time it naturally takes to get bigger, stronger, and more technically proficient, it won't be long until there's no gap at all.

 

Go Irish!

Edited October 21, 200915 yr by cjdomer04
quote fixing

USC has had nearly 10 years of pulling elite talent and continuity with a coaching staff. We have had all of maybe 3 or 4 years of close to elite talent. two of those years those elite players didn't have the luxury of practicing against other elite older players and learning they had to play right away....we still are not up to USC's talent level and experience....we are getting there but not quite yet.

 

 

Amen, Money. I've been shaking my head at the naysayers for a couple of years now for their inability to understand this concept. I've been coaching youth sports for almost 20 years now and without exception, the best teams with which I've been associated over those years were not the ones with the best individual stars, but the ones that had both real competition for starting positions and an opportunity to practice against quality athletes. Sure, a superior individual talent may occasionally bring glory, but such moments are usually short-lived if the whole team can't provide the sort of practice looks that imitate game action. (See, for example, Arrelious Benn and Illinois). When a player can dominate (or not) in practice without fear of being replaced or challenged, gameday matchups with other equally talented players often prove disastrous.

 

As Notre Dame recruiting as reached more consistent levels of excellence and players have matured with the opportunity to compete with and challenge equally talented players, we've seen the steady progress that should be expected. Anyone who thought that our O-lines and D-lines would stand up to the rigors of D-I (or whatever it's called now) football in the very recent past when we couldn't even field a two-deep of scholarship players on those units was dreaming. Are our lines the equal to Southern Cal's yet? Of course not. But they damn sure are gaining and if we can continue to draw top talent into the fold year by year, and that talent is given the time it naturally takes to get bigger, stronger, and more technically proficient, it won't be long until there's no gap at all.

 

Go Irish!

 

exactly....I don't understand why that concept is so hard to grasp...instead all we get is we are ND we should beat USC

Edited October 21, 200915 yr by cjdomer04
quote fixing

Here is something that seems to be missed. In the first half we tried to go with an empty backfield and that was a terrible mistake. Each time this happened they stayed back with 7 and a few times 8 to defend the pass. You don't do that without the best D Line in the country and some major fears of the pass game. We took out an extra blocker and a flat/release receiver out of the play which gave them free reign in both the rush and drop coverage. Weis made an adjustment and helped out the OL dramatically with the formation change. Its tough to expect a QB to find an open man when its 5 on 7 or 5 on 8, likely a man under 2 coverage. By the way, that was a solid secondary! We minimized mistakes and scored a bunch on a great defense.

I just can't accept mediocrity I guess. Too many teams have bounced back from having piss-poor recruiting to having decent offensive lines. I'm glad you all are happy with this underperformance because it seems to be an attribute of a Weis-led team. I'm not an advocate for firing CW at all, but there comes a time when you have to wonder about the ever-repeating cycle of not developing players. I know that's urine in a lot of your Wheaties but I'm from Missouri and I say it like it is, without the lipstick.

It's not mediocrity at play, DJ, it's reality. What was that great Ty recruiting stat -- TWO offensive lineman in two years? And not exactly A-list guys at that. I think you'd be hard-pressed to come up with a great offensive line that bounced back immediately from that kind of disaster without jucos at its disposal. And I won't even mention Latina (again).

I just can't accept mediocrity I guess. Too many teams have bounced back from having piss-poor recruiting to having decent offensive lines. I'm glad you all are happy with this underperformance because it seems to be an attribute of a Weis-led team. I'm not an advocate for firing CW at all, but there comes a time when you have to wonder about the ever-repeating cycle of not developing players. I know that's urine in a lot of your Wheaties but I'm from Missouri and I say it like it is, without the lipstick.

 

Wrong...

 

Duncan...clearly improved from 2 years ago when he last played

Olsen...clearly developed into an NFL lineman

Tate...clearly developed into an NFL WR

Clausen...clearly developed into and NFL QB and Heisman hopeful

Rudolph...came in with talent and has only gotten better, and you will see even further growth next season

Parris...clearly improved his talent level, even while receiving minimal game time

Floyd...Stud...

C. Stewart...guy went from guard to nt and now is a starting guard...that's development

McCarthy...

Brian Smith

Ian Williams

...that's a good list to have.

You want to go back in time...

 

Smardzija

Quinn

T. Laws

Stovall

McKnight

Carlson

 

All developed and excelled under CW's coaching...

 

The fact of the matter is Pete Carroll has been at USC for 10 years to get his program where it is at...CW has been here 5...Are we judging them on equal footing? I know patience is a virtue not easily found, but if you can't see this roster developing in terms of front line talent and two deep talent with the youth, than you really can't be helped...

 

Let's also not forget that CW has had a number of players wash out during this time period (Bartley Webb, Aaron Nagel, Konrad Reuland, James Aldridge's knee problems, matt Carufel, Luke Schmidt, Demetrius Jones, Munir Prince, Will Yeatman, Joseph Fauria, and Richard Jackson all showed up on campus and are either gone or injured to a point where they don't contribute)...That will take a toll on your talent pool as well...not to mention trattou, hunter, benn, etc... who verballed and then de-committed leaving us grasping at straws to replace them...

You call what happened Saturday mediocre? That's just harsh. And I really don't get this thing of not being able to develop players. You actually think the seniors on the team haven't gotten better? Look at McCarthy and John Ryan. What about Duncan? Just b/c he got beaten by Everson Griffen a few times doesn't mean he hasn't improved. What about Olsen and Parris?

 

 

I'm referring to the offensive line play...not anything else. And yes I consider our offensive line play against USC to be mediocre at best. And the mentioning of under-developed players was in reference to our huge offensive line that repeatedly got out-maneuvered and out-strengthed last weekend. Duncan got beat on several occasions not just "a few" and the interior allowed constant pressure as well. We have a POY who beat out Tebow for this recognition and several other highly regarded linemen who didn't look the part during the game that mattered. My standards for Notre Dame must be unrealistic. I'll start being proud of them despite the offensive line playing poorly against USC and strike it up as superior competition.

 

**this thread is about the offensive line. Any mentioning of other positions and of how they developed is moot. The offensive line does not get the proper devopment needed and I hope it changes.

I'm referring to the offensive line play...not anything else. And yes I consider our offensive line play against USC to be mediocre at best. And the mentioning of under-developed players was in reference to our huge offensive line that repeatedly got out-maneuvered and out-strengthed last weekend. Duncan got beat on several occasions not just "a few" and the interior allowed constant pressure as well. We have a POY who beat out Tebow for this recognition and several other highly regarded linemen who didn't look the part during the game that mattered. My standards for Notre Dame must be unrealistic. I'll start being proud of them despite the offensive line playing poorly against USC and strike it up as superior competition.

 

**this thread is about the offensive line. Any mentioning of other positions and of how they developed is moot. The offensive line does not get the proper devopment needed and I hope it changes.

 

first off, if you drop back over 40 times you can expect a few sacks. second, a couple of those were cover sacks. granted Jimmy got away from a few to throw it away. but if a coach doesnt try running the ball more then how's that going to help the OL? if you dont think they improved, i dont know what game you're watching. sorry to say it, love ya DJ, but the line is a lot better than the last 2 yrs. first half jimmy had happy feet as well, which didnt help. as the game went on and he started trusting the line, we started moving the ball.

I'm referring to the offensive line play...not anything else. And yes I consider our offensive line play against USC to be mediocre at best. And the mentioning of under-developed players was in reference to our huge offensive line that repeatedly got out-maneuvered and out-strengthed last weekend. Duncan got beat on several occasions not just "a few" and the interior allowed constant pressure as well. We have a POY who beat out Tebow for this recognition and several other highly regarded linemen who didn't look the part during the game that mattered. My standards for Notre Dame must be unrealistic. I'll start being proud of them despite the offensive line playing poorly against USC and strike it up as superior competition.

 

**this thread is about the offensive line. Any mentioning of other positions and of how they developed is moot. The offensive line does not get the proper devopment needed and I hope it changes.

 

biggest prob we had the last 2 seasons was not being able to make adjustments. we could say that development of the OL was also the prob, and we cant grade Verducci on 6 months of work, but im happy to say that adjustments were made vs. USC.

 

another thing. Alabama last yr had at least 2 NFL draft picks on their OL last yr (Andre Smith the 3rd NFL pick didnt play) and Utah made them look silly. Utah doesnt have the athletes USC has, and ND doesnt have the OL that Bama had last yr, but our performance was a lot better than theirs.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/video/press-and-news-football/NotreDame/Verducci-line-needs-to-execute-56045

 

Looks like coach and I agree, while the rest can be content...we want more.

 

**I'm through saying we progressed based off our last two-years performances. We should be comparing ourselves with the best, not our previous worse

I'm referring to the offensive line play...not anything else. And yes I consider our offensive line play against USC to be mediocre at best. And the mentioning of under-developed players was in reference to our huge offensive line that repeatedly got out-maneuvered and out-strengthed last weekend. Duncan got beat on several occasions not just "a few" and the interior allowed constant pressure as well. We have a POY who beat out Tebow for this recognition and several other highly regarded linemen who didn't look the part during the game that mattered. My standards for Notre Dame must be unrealistic. I'll start being proud of them despite the offensive line playing poorly against USC and strike it up as superior competition.

 

**this thread is about the offensive line

 

Do you really think that Sam Young played poorly against USC ???? You are crazy if you do. He did not give up a single sack, he gave up two pressures all game long and was able to run block Everson Griffen effectively all game long...What are you asking him to do?? He can't block both sides of the line...

 

Duncan struggled against Griffen, worse than I have seen him play against anyone all year... no doubt about it...but don't go labeling Sam Young as underperforming in this game, it's just not true.

 

Olsen also played well...