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I see on many other boards b*tching and whining about this being CW's 5th year and STILL lose to USC.

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"Fire Weis NOW!"

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It has always been MY contention that this year should be looked upon as year #3 for Weis and this specific team. Charlie had talented Juniors and Seniors to work with in his first 2 years. Then the bottom dropped out as the effects of shitty Willingham recruiting put us in an NCAA punishment-like pit.

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2007, Charlie had plenty of talent and they were all Freshman.

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So, here the question.

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Forgetting the 1st 2 years. Forget them.

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Hypothetically say that CW came to ND in 2007. Now, think.

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Nothing has changed, we still lost to Syracuse and Navy. The team has consistently improved in most areas and we just took USC down to the wire and still in BCS contention.

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ONLY take 2007, 2008 and this year, so far, into consideration.

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What are your thoughts of Charlie Weis now?

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Is he still on a "hot seat"?

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Are you in dispair or are you hopeful and positive about where we are going?

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I just want to get a feel of everyones opinion.

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Weis needs to get a killer instinct. USC coached that game to win...ie...3rd and 1...throwing to the tight end for 50 yds. Weis punts before the half, ND holds, gets the ball deep and then leaves a minute on the clock to walk into the locker room...WHY? To avoid the turnover?? What does ND have to lose. Second half. Not kicking the field goal and going to Aldridge who hasn't played since game 1. Hmmm??? I wonder who was getting the ball.

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Think about this. If ND kicks the field goal and makes it, doesn't miss the extra point, it's a 3 pt game for the final drive. Then, Weis is quoted saying that if ND gets in on the final drive he most likely goes to OT to let the frosh play the veteran. WHY??? It's 6th ranked USC who you've yet to beat. Play to win Charlie. USC had a 3 score lead and instead of going to Joe McKnight, they continue to pass. That's how to close the deal. It's football. I didn't hear anyone shouting at Pete for a lack of class for putting it to ND and then continuing to throw the ball when in all reality, they should have been milking the clock with their star RB.

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I personally think Weis has gone conservative as compared to his first 2 years where he establlishes himself as an aggressive play caller (some would say overly aggressive). If you're reading this board Charlie, listen up. Your butt is on fire man. Coach to win and you earn the respect of this fan.

I got to say that it was the 1st time in years with the exception of BQ's close loss to SOCAL that I was not pi$$ed off at the team. I was aggravated at some of the lack of execution by our DB's but all in all I thought they never gave up and busted their butts. It was only my second time seeing ND at home but I left proud knowing that they fought hard. I feel that improvements are being made but we still have a ways to go. Unlike some of the power teams we are not in position to loose a quality player and just substitute another and not lose a beat....yet. We are getting there. So all in all loosing sucks but fighting hard and not giving up shows we are on our way.

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P.S. Sat in the USC section of end zone and I loved how their fans BITCHED about the fact that we don't have a scoreboard for replays. I just laughed and asked them where their schools on campus stadium is and how good the facilities at the campus stadium are.

Speedster, I think this is an interesting point. CW overachieved in his first two years with avg - good talent, and the last two years are somewhat more realistic based on our talent level and experience. Yes we blew some leads last year that we shouldn't have, but we are improved from last year. Jimmy's class should be considered CW's first class since it was the first year he had a full year to recruit.

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I think each time CW has made staff adjustments it has worked. Alford has the rb's running hard, Verducci has the line looking totally different, and Hart has helped with a below average d line. I think he needs to change Corwin, and we will see another improvement.

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The devil you know is better than the one you don't. Before CW was hired we were scrambling around for anybody to take the position. I will say it again, IF WE FIRE CW< WE HAD BETTER ALREADY HAVE KELLEY IN PLACE AS OUR NEXT COACH!

If this year had some decisive quality wins, I'd be fine. If you look at the games we've played in, that we've faced two true freshman QB's and lost to both, that we've had to scrape and claw to get back into games, I don't see any quality. Sure a win is a win is a win is a win, but this season continues to teeter on the brink of disaster.

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You thought this past Saturday was a bit of a meltdown? We lose to BC Saturday and it will match the epic proportions of the great Syracuse meltdown of '08.

Speedy, unfortunately IMO this is too rational of an argument for many posters here... for them you have to deal in number of years on the job and wins and losses...just the facts

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I don't believe they see any progress in the direction of the program, which will be the only evaluation at the end of the season by the AD...right now no one knows how the rest of the season will play out.

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IMO, the responses to the questions "are we better off now than we were?", and "are we continuing to improve?" will dictate what happens to CW...and so far I would say the answers to both are yes...this may change if the team tanks the rest of the year...but I don't expect that to occur

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IMO the entire 5 year period should not be looked at in a vacuum without regard to where the program was at after the Davieham era...to do so lacks any connection to reality (but that is what the internet is all about)

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Also, how many people think we score on the last drive if Floyd is in the game? Secondly, how many 6th year DB's are we playing vs. USC playing?

Everyone made a big deal that if nd isn't back in the bcs weis would be gone. Right not it's very unlikely they will be in the bcs.

Let's not start thinking this team is closer to 1-5 than 6-0.

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Sorry, but I can't help but think that...

Year 5 year 3 whatever.... we haven't made ANY progress on defense. Secondary still has issues getting beat for big plays although I think the lack of a pass rush is leaving them out to dry. We've switched coordinators, recruited more athletes, gone to 3-4 and back again to 4-3, switched coordinators again and still.... We are one hundred and whateverith in defense.

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Until we figure this aspect of the game out we will never win more than 10 games I don't care if we have Clausen, Floyd, Tim Brown, Rocket and everyone else on the team--it sounds cliche but defense wins championships. Look at the elite programs and look at history and ask yourself...

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In year 3 or 5 or whatever year we want to call this--have we made progress on the defensive side of the ball?

Look at the elite programs and look at history and ask yourself...

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In year 3 or 5 or whatever year we want to call this--have we made progress on the defensive side of the ball?

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Just a question: In comparison to what? Ty's last year? Davie's? Lou's?

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I think the team speed/athleticism has improved...think back to the OSU bowl game/LSU game. Granted the execution has been all over the board, but we do have better players IMO...

Just a question: In comparison to what? Ty's last year? Davie's? Lou's?

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I think the team speed/athleticism has improved...think back to the OSU bowl game/LSU game. Granted the execution has been all over the board, but we do have better players IMO...

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We can compare to whatever we want--the principle question of the thread is how have we been doing since 2007. My point is that if you compare where we are at on October 17, 2009 to 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005 or whatever, we haven't made progress one bit on defense.

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I agree with you that we have better players then the games you referenced as well but who cares! We still give up 34 points to USC (with a Freshman QB) we gave up just as many points to Michigan we gave up 30 points to Washington, etc. Better players or not we are still getting torched on defense and we will never be a great team until we figure out how to be a good if not great defense.

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Also, how many people think we score on the last drive if Floyd is in the game?

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If Floyd was in the game, I don't think we would have had to score in a last drive.

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And I agree crouchingjedi, we NEED the defense to step up to the next level.

My problem is the signature win is now 2 close L against USC.

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I dont think any coach that was successful in CFB took that long to get that "big win"

The problem is the definition of signature win. To most people here, that means beating a team that finishes in the top 10. That is an incredibly difficult thing to do when we have significantly less talent than the guys on the other side of the ball. We are getting closer in talent, but just had our first shot against a top 10 side since the talent gap has been closed.

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In 4 of his 5 years he has had talent to beat certain teams and hasnt been able to pull it off. Something just seems to be missing.

My problem is the signature win is now 2 close L against USC.

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I dont think any coach that was successful in CFB took that long to get that "big win"

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Im more concerned about the losses to sub par teams then not getting the "signature win". Weis should be in hot water because he lost to the likes of MSU, Pitt, NC, Navy, Michigan, Syracuse etc not because he doesnt have a big win.

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In 4 of his 5 years he has had talent to beat certain teams and hasnt been able to pull it off. Something just seems to be missing.

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What was missing was maturity, emotion and confidence.

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Those we now have.

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Only thing missing now is a decent defense!

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