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My thoughts on Notre Dame Football


Guest Sophie

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I personally would have thought Charlie would have had this program on a path to real success by now but I've come to believe (my own opinion) that we are not going to be competing at the levels of the Florida's, the USC's, the LSU's .. you know, all those teams that seem to be in the top 5 to 10 mix each and every year. I just don't see that happening for the Irish anytime now or in the near future.

 

I thought I bought into it but now I feel like its just another coaching cycle (in the door and then out the door). I think it's time for coaching change, as much as I hate that revolving door. I think this team is going to disappoint a few more times before seasons end. I wish I felt different about this program, perhaps I feel this way because its become the norm. I don't have the answer to any of it, I just know I want change. Just because he's our coach, it doesn't mean we don't have to have expectation for him, doesn't everyone's employers have standards / goals / success by which they need to meet? He hasn't done what he said he was going to do. In the end, it doesn't matter how well we recruit, if it doesn't translate to wins on the field.

 

I don't think it makes you a bad fan if you aren't all on board and all bubbly over Charlie Weis. Heck, even Charlie knows he's got his hands full, he knows he's not getting it done they way it should be getting done .. I have got to believe in his meetings with his boss, this is not where they envisioned the program being 5 yrs later. I hope for the programs sake, they already have their short list of coaches in place, so if and when the time comes, we aren't left making a choice we might regret. Personally, the only I person I'd like coaching at Notre Dame would be Urban Meyer. I know he isn't popular with a lot of you, but he's already been a part of our program, he's a proven winner, he won at Utah and now he's winning at Florida, he finds away to get it done. I'd like to see ND pull out all the stopx to bring him back home, they will need to if they are to pull him away from Florida.

 

 

:typing: ..... Well, that's my two cents on the matter, spend it how you will.

Thanks in advance for respecting that this is just an opinion, not a post to incite an agruement or anything.

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I personally would have thought Charlie would have had this program on a path to real success by now but I've come to believe (my own opinion) that we are not going to be competing at the levels of the Florida's, the USC's, the LSU's .. you know, all those teams that seem to be in the top 5 to 10 mix each and every year. I just don't see that happening for the Irish anytime now or in the near future.

 

I thought I bought into it but now I feel like its just another coaching cycle (in the door and then out the door). I think it's time for coaching change, as much as I hate that revolving door. I think this team is going to disappoint a few more times before seasons end. I wish I felt different about this program, perhaps I feel this way because its become the norm. I don't have the answer to any of it, I just know I want change. Just because he's our coach, it doesn't mean we don't have to have expectation for him, doesn't everyone's employers have standards / goals / success by which they need to meet? He hasn't done what he said he was going to do. In the end, it doesn't matter how well we recruit, if it doesn't translate to wins on the field.

 

I don't think it makes you a bad fan if you aren't all on board and all bubbly over Charlie Weis. Heck, even Charlie knows he's got his hands full, he knows he's not getting it done they way it should be getting done .. I have got to believe in his meetings with his boss, this is not where they envisioned the program being 5 yrs later. I hope for the programs sake, they already have their short list of coaches in place, so if and when the time comes, we aren't left making a choice we might regret. Personally, the only I person I'd like coaching at Notre Dame would be Urban Meyer. I know he isn't popular with a lot of you, but he's already been a part of our program, he's a proven winner, he won at Utah and now he's winning at Florida, he finds away to get it done. I'd like to see ND pull out all the stopx to bring him back home, they will need to if they are to pull him away from Florida.

 

 

:typing: ..... Well, that's my two cents on the matter, spend it how you will.

Thanks in advance for respecting that this is just an opinion, not a post to incite an agruement or anything.

 

I know its just an opinion but its a silly opinion. Why? Because the team is noticeably better in many respects. And before the third game, you are writing him off. I said this right after the Michigan "Welp, we are going to have to beat USC now to make this one go away." Wouldn't you agree Sophie? IF ND beats USC, that one game will prove he can coach to you? Prove that he can beat an elite program? Prove that he can motivate players? Prove we have turned the corner? I really hope they beat SC (not only cus it would be SWEET) but because all the nay sayers would be shooting blanks. An SC win will prove how silly it is that one win can prove to people that he can coach and succeed.

 

I am sorry, I know this is a civil board, but I question anyone's football IQ if they don't see big improvements from 2007 to 2008 and from last year to this year. What the heck do you want? I understand everyone wants a NC but if players are developing in the upward direction and recruiting is good, the wins will come. I just think its silly for people to write off this season with 10 games left. You mention employees have goals to reach, but its like your firing a guy for not making year end goals on March 1st. AND THAT makes no sense to me.

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so far our defense is statistically a lot worse than the past couple years. football i.q. doesn't need to be questioned on that side. offensively we have gotten better no doubt.

 

Alot worse??? I think so far (two games in) they are about 40 yards per game more than last year and 3 points per game less. I know we had 3 sacks against Nevada which is more sacks than I think the first four games of last season. I think you are actually going to need to use stats to show they are "a lot worse" statistically.

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I think its completely reasonable to be questioning weis--- afterall he was questioned by the AD last year---- and by most of the football world this year-------so i dont see this as a very unique point of view at all---

 

If you feel that we will loose 4 games and a bowl game---8 and 5-----then to think charlies future would be in doubt is just common sense

 

I think the team is too good to end up performing so bad that charlie gets axed this year--- but thats my view

 

if i am wrong and charlie gets himself fired-- one thing that would be a kind of sad irony-- is that any coach that takes over this team in 2010 will have a team with a loaded roster-- a team with a current history of excellent recruiting---and a full scholarship load------COMPARE THAT TO WHAT CHARLIE HAD WHEN HE CAME IN----a team with 17 good players and not much else--with a recruiting vacuum that left little in 2004 and little in 2005-----with whole areas of the team that were undermanned with not only weak recruiting but low scholarship--- almost as if we had been punished by the ncaa

 

so if the question is could a new coach come in and do better then charlie has over the last 4 years-he would have to given the state of the program now vs then-------------It almost makes you wonder that if the program seems to be in so much better shape then when charlie started, maybe we should just stick with him awhile longer and expect success will come this year and next !

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Well said Sophie. I don't think you are comparing to the Florida's USCs and LSUs because they lose to teams they shouldn't, but because they are considered elite teams that have won recent national championships. We on the other hand are ranked.... actually at the present we are not ranked.

 

I feel your frustration with CW. I do not want to fire him right now. In my opinion it would not be a wise decision. But certainly I think we will have a good idea by midseason on the true state of the program. If the team beats USC certainly it will point to good things, but in fact when you keep it in perspective it will mean that after 4.5 years Charlie Weis has finally beaten a top 5 team. I will continue to look (and hope--yes I do hope it works out) for signs that this team is different and not part of the pattern of losing games we shouldn't, losing games after leading at halftime etc. Those are particular results in addition to W-L that I am looking for to prove to me that CW is the long term answer towards bringing us national championships.

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Just a question for all the experts out there...but what kind of record would ND have had over the past 5 years if we hadn't fired Ty? It is obvious that 2005 and 2006 would have been worse...now what about 2007 and 2008 - can you even imagine going through those years with the same type of recruiting Ty did...how about and 0'fer like UW...

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Just a question for all the experts out there...but what kind of record would ND have had over the past 5 years if we hadn't fired Ty? It is obvious that 2005 and 2006 would have been worse...now what about 2007 and 2008 - can you even imagine going through those years with the same type of recruiting Ty did...how about and 0'fer like UW...

 

DUDE, obviously you don't get it. Ty's firing was good. Weis's was bad. We would have had a NC by now if we had Meyer. :grin:

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We are currently 78th in the nation in total defense. We were 39th in the nation in total defense in 2008. We are currrently 88th in rush defense we were 45th in 2008.

 

So yes we are worse on d so far this year. Maybe Jappy wasn't such a bad coach? Maybe our player development or S&C program isn't progressing guys like Ian Williams,etc.?

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By USCs and Florida's and LSU's, do you mean teams that drop games to Oregon State, UCLA, Ole Miss, Arkansas, and other stellar programs they shouldn't be dropping games to... Kind of like dropping a close game to Michigan?? It's only two games in.

 

No, I think she meant teams that drop those games but then go onto win BCS bowls.

 

Oregon State over USC -- USC wins the Rose Bowl.

UCLA over USC -- USC wins the Rose Bowl.

Ole Miss over Florida -- Florida wins the national championship.

Arkansas over LSU -- LSU wins the national championship.

 

Losing those games, and dropping a close game to Michigan, are very different losses.

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We are currently 78th in the nation in total defense. We were 39th in the nation in total defense in 2008. We are currrently 88th in rush defense we were 45th in 2008.

 

So yes we are worse on d so far this year. Maybe Jappy wasn't such a bad coach? Maybe our player development or S&C program isn't progressing guys like Ian Williams,etc.?

 

Let me just say that I think its ridiculous to compare a season worth of stats to 2 games, but to rationalize these rankings. In the first two weeks, alot of teams play crappy teams and the stats will be inflated. Lets wait til week 6 or 7 or so.

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No, I think she meant teams that drop those games but then go onto win BCS bowls.

 

Oregon State over USC -- USC wins the Rose Bowl.

UCLA over USC -- USC wins the Rose Bowl.

Ole Miss over Florida -- Florida wins the national championship.

Arkansas over LSU -- LSU wins the national championship.

 

Losing those games, and dropping a close game to Michigan, are very different losses.

 

ahhh, because we just got killed in the BCS bowl game this year. Makes perfect sense. How about Alabama losing to Florida and getting killed to UTAH in the BCS game? Saban sucks.

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I agree. But I wouldn't question someone's football i.q. if they aren't seeing progress on defense at this point.

 

I think they are. Shutout... sacks... TFL are all up because I remember they weren't happening last season. For some reason, people think we were this powerhouse Defense last year. We were not good at stopping the run at ALL last season. That is why people thought we would get killed against Nevada. Poster mentioned that they don't see ND competing with the elite any time soon. I think our offense is pretty elite. If not, then REALLY close. I think our team is really close to being elite and I am willing to wait and say, "I want to see how this team fairs against an elite team like USC." then to completely right them off after week 2.

 

But to say this team is not improving is flat out wrong... name one player that is worse than last year. They are all getting better and that is a good sign.

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ahhh, because we just got killed in the BCS bowl game this year. Makes perfect sense. How about Alabama losing to Florida and getting killed to UTAH in the BCS game? Saban sucks.

 

Um...what?

 

A poster pointed out a handful of losses to inferior teams, and the implication was that "these losses happen."

 

I don't disagree that "these losses happen", but they're ok to push aside as "well, that's how it goes" when your team continues on the season and wins BCS bowls and national championships, like the teams did with each one of said poster's examples.

 

What, exactly, are you trying to say?

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Um...what?

 

A poster pointed out a handful of losses to inferior teams, and the implication was that "these losses happen."

 

I don't disagree that "these losses happen", but they're ok to push aside as "well, that's how it goes" when your team continues on the season and wins BCS bowls and national championships, like the teams did with each one of said poster's examples.

 

What, exactly, are you trying to say?

 

I am saying that those teams that you pointed out have finished their season. This season is not finished. We have not played a BCS game... its week 3.

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No, I think she meant teams that drop those games but then go onto win BCS bowls.

 

Oregon State over USC -- USC wins the Rose Bowl.

UCLA over USC -- USC wins the Rose Bowl.

Ole Miss over Florida -- Florida wins the national championship.

Arkansas over LSU -- LSU wins the national championship.

 

Losing those games, and dropping a close game to Michigan, are very different losses.

 

How are they different? The story on this season hasn't even been written yet.

 

Unless you have a crystal ball, you can't tell me how highly ranked UM will end up, or that ND will miss a BCS game.

 

BTW the OP lost me at Meyer. Talk about a guy who will never get ND. We shouldn't have to sell our souls to get a BCS NC.

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KatzenBoyer you are talking about what happend at the end of those good/great seasons. Others are saying we can STILL have that kind of season, and until we dont why dont you we all lay off it because we arent doing anyone in or around the program any good. Only venting our own anger for every recruit to see! Give it til week game six and we will revisit this. That is just a suggestion! :-D

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The original poster said this:

 

I've come to believe (my own opinion) that we are not going to be competing at the levels of the Florida's, the USC's, the LSU's .. you know, all those teams that seem to be in the top 5 to 10 mix each and every year. I just don't see that happening for the Irish anytime now or in the near future.

 

The LSUs, Floridas, and USCs or the world suffer a loss, and bounce back to win national championships and BCS bowls.

 

The poster is of the opinion that with Weis at the helm, we won't get to that level, and I share that opinion.

 

My original post about the losses USC, LSU, and Florida suffered resulted in the teams going to national championships and/or BCS bowls, and winning them. THAT'S where ND needs to be.

 

Whether or not you think Weis will get us there is a matter of opinion, and that's fine. But when someone asks "you mean the LSU/USC/Florida teams that lost to UCLA, Oregon State, Arkansas, Ole Miss", the implication is that losses like this happen all the time and that last week was nothing to worry about.

 

My argument is that when you bounce back from the losses to win national championships and BCS bowls, then the losses to teams like Michigan will be acceptable. But we haven't been to that level, so until we do, a loss to a Michigan team starting a freshman quarterback, in my opinion, is not acceptable, regardless of if there's an entire season to play.

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