Question For Speedster

[Donjuan]

What's going on with the police force during tailgating? I've heard a bunch of accusations regarding the "excise" force which is in charge of policing tailgaters. What's your view??

[SpeedsterX]

Yea, I've been reading "stories".

 

Here are some facts, every negative story I've read was about either someone got busted for underage drinking (which is against the law, by the way) or someone of age, did or said something stupid (because they were intoxicated) and were surprised that the Police were focusing on them in particular. One idiot complaining that he got arrested even said that he was not sure what he said to Officers as he was too drunk but was complaining that he got arrested.

 

Listen, If you're tailgating, don't be feeding underage minors beers. If an Officer of the law passes by, don't be a smartass or make a big spectacle of yourself for no reason other than you are drunk. Police are "the public" too so if you are going to disturb the public by doing it to the ONE person that can truly stop you only because you have the balls=alcohol talking, then you deserve what you get.

 

As for the Excise Police, they are given a job by the University. If the University said crack down on loud and obnoxious drunks and underage drinking, then that is what they will do with the help of SJCP and NDSP. How they go about doing that is up to excise and the UNIVERSITY.

 

As for SBPD and MPD, we have NOT been given any special orders by anyone to crack down on anyone. As a matter of fact, if you see a SBPD Officer near the tailgating, they are either walking from their cars to the Stadium (for IN stadium patrol) or back to their cars to go home. You will also see them outside the campus directing traffic. They go inside stadium for the game or home and go back out on the streets for the games end to direct traffic out. You will not see SBPD Officers walking the tailgates "looking" for stuff. SBPD does only 2 things, inside stadium security and off campus traffic detail. The only time Officer's inside the stadium will deal with drunks inside (as we know most have been drinking "something") is when we catch them obviously being a problem with others or the Ushers request we escort them out.

 

In my about a decade of working inside stadium detail, I have given many warnings. I have helped more people find their children, their seat or the bathrooms than I have given warnings and I have only had to make 2 ARRESTS and only one of those were alcohol related. One of those arrests was for a student stealing a shirt from one of the vendors (shoplifting) and the other was because as I was at the stadium entrance an absolutely hammered student came up to me and my buddy and demanded we let him in without a ticket. He could hardly walk straight and you could hardly understand his speech. We told him numerous times that he needed a ticket and that he needed to go back to his tailgating area because even if he had a ticket, the Ushers are probably not going to let him in anyway. He would leave and then come back and start his whole routine again. He did this at least 4 times! We got stern with him and threatened arrest if he did this again and ordered him back to the tailgaters area. Well, he started stumbling back to the south ACC lot. As he walked near the fence in between, where many student bikes were chained there, this idiot started kicking at the bikes. Well, that was it and my buddy and I began to walk towards him to finally arrest him. He then "attempted" to run from us as we easily caught him and had to force him to the ground as he was fighting against us. We then handcuffed him and all the other tailgaters gave us a HUGE applause for getting rid of this idiot as they saw the whole thing go down.

 

I can only speak for SBPD. WE work the games for extra money, to enjoy the great atmosphere and great people we get to meet AND, of course, to see a Notre Dame game. The last thing we want to do is arrest people! But if they obviously break the law or is a danger to themselves or others, then I do my job as I am expected to do and it is my duty.

 

Sounds like what the students are really having problems with are 1. Not being able to drink underage as the law does not allow. 2. With their beloved University and how hard they want to crack down on drunks at their venues. 3. State Excise and how they go about to enforce those laws and gather evidence.

 

Donjuan, with your permission and with all due respect, I am moving this to "General" as I would like most other members at DD should be enlightened and know what departments roles are in this. If you want t moved back just let me know. No biggie.

Edited September 29, 2008 by SpeedsterX

[SpeedsterX]

BTW, if anyone has any questions, I'll do my best to answer.

[Donjuan]

I've read stories about horse-bites, to asphalt take-downs. A lot of hub-bub over at the Nation. I know this might be a conflict of interest, but should we refuse to blow if asked?? --insert wise-a$$ remark here--

 

I've read that a guy stumbled or tripped over some litter, and was thought to be drunk and taken from the game out to perform sobriety tests until he passed them all, including the breathalizer. By the time he got back to the game, it was half time.

 

And another involving a man who had been arrested yet refused to blow despite being tormented by stadium police. When finally the wagon showed up to pick up the over-spilling make-shift stadium jail cell, his pants button had been ripped off--causing his pants to fall to his ankles-- and he was forced to walk in his underwear through the tailgaters, into the wagon.

 

Again, these are accounts of people who had run-ins with the police at the game. I probably drank 10-15 beers before kick-off, but was never treated badly--but I also didn't over do it. I know that sounds excessive, but we got there around 8 am and I was in pain from my broken toe. Long story short, I'm not causing any problems with anyone.

[steelirish]

Speaking as an underage student at the university. I think if you are willing to risk being outside where you know cops are looking for underage students then you risk getting caught. What I have a problem with is, there was an article in the observer recently where someone went to the bathroom and gave there alcoholic beverage to an underage friend. The cop carded the friend and cited her (i believe it was a her) for underage drinking despite the fact that she wasn't drinking and even volunteered to take a brethalyzer which the cop refused. Then he cited the over age friend with inducing a minor to drink.

 

The biggest problems students see is the excessive abuse of power sometimes exhibited by the police forces. Whether it is excessive or not I cannot say because I have never witnessed it first hand, and I hope I never will, also I'm not qualified to judge what is excessive. If you are interested in the students opinions or general feelings there was an excellent letter to the editor in the observer today written by at 2001 alum.

[BlackIrish42]

Yea, I've been reading "stories".

 

Here are some facts, every negative story I've read was about either someone got busted for underage drinking (which is against the law, by the way) or someone of age, did or said something stupid (because they were intoxicated) and were surprised that the Police were focusing on them in particular. One idiot complaining that he got arrested even said that he was not sure what he said to Officers as he was too drunk but was complaining that he got arrested.

 

Listen, If you're tailgating, don't be feeding underage minors beers. If an Officer of the law passes by, don't be a smartass or make a big spectacle of yourself for no reason other than you are drunk. Police are "the public" too so if you are going to disturb the public by doing it to the ONE person that can truly stop you only because you have the balls=alcohol talking, then you deserve what you get.

 

As for the Excise Police, they are given a job by the University. If the University said crack down on loud and obnoxious drunks and underage drinking, then that is what they will do with the help of SJCP and NDSP. How they go about doing that is up to excise and the UNIVERSITY.

 

As for SBPD and MPD, we have NOT been given any special orders by anyone to crack down on anyone. As a matter of fact, if you see a SBPD Officer near the tailgating, they are either walking from their cars to the Stadium (for IN stadium patrol) or back to their cars to go home. You will also see them outside the campus directing traffic. They go inside stadium for the game or home and go back out on the streets for the games end to direct traffic out. You will not see SBPD Officers walking the tailgates "looking" for stuff. SBPD does only 2 things, inside stadium security and off campus traffic detail. The only time Officer's inside the stadium will deal with drunks inside (as we know most have been drinking "something") is when we catch them obviously being a problem with others or the Ushers request we escort them out.

 

In my about a decade of working inside stadium detail, I have given many warnings. I have helped more people find their children, their seat or the bathrooms than I have given warnings and I have only had to make 2 ARRESTS and only one of those were alcohol related. One of those arrests was for a student stealing a shirt from one of the vendors (shoplifting) and the other was because as I was at the stadium entrance an absolutely hammered student came up to me and my buddy and demanded we let him in without a ticket. He could hardly walk straight and you could hardly understand his speech. We told him numerous times that he needed a ticket and that he needed to go back to his tailgating area because even if he had a ticket, the Ushers are probably not going to let him in anyway. He would leave and then come back and start his whole routine again. He did this at least 4 times! We got stern with him and threatened arrest if he did this again and ordered him back to the tailgaters area. Well, he started stumbling back to the south ACC lot. As he walked near the fence in between, where many student bikes were chained there, this idiot started kicking at the bikes. Well, that was it and my buddy and I began to walk towards him to finally arrest him. He then "attempted" to run from us as we easily caught him and had to force him to the ground as he was fighting against us. We then handcuffed him and all the other tailgaters gave us a HUGE applause for getting rid of this idiot as they saw the whole thing go down.

 

I can only speak for SBPD. WE work the games for extra money, to enjoy the great atmosphere and great people we get to meet AND, of course, to see a Notre Dame game. The last thing we want to do is arrest people! But if they obviously break the law or is a danger to themselves or others, then I do my job as I am expected to do and it is my duty.

 

Sounds like what the students are really having problems with are 1. Not being able to drink underage as the law does not allow. 2. With their beloved University and how hard they want to crack down on drunks at their venues. 3. State Excise and how they go about to enforce those laws and gather evidence.

 

Donjuan, with your permission and with all due respect, I am moving this to "General" as I would like most other members at DD should be enlightened and know what departments roles are in this. If you want t moved back just let me know. No biggie.

 

there are MANY stories on a very prominent ND fan website (i'm guessing you know which one that is) which do not fit either category you used in your response. i would be interested to get your take on those if you'd care to give it.

 

you provide an interesting viewpoint that i'm interested in reading but i am fully aware that your are coming from a very specific perspective. and quite frankly, with the number of people talking about specific incidents, well, it leads me to quote that old chestnut, "where there's smoke, there's fire."

 

but let me also say you are great poster on all things ND football and i enjoy and even look forward to your posts. hope i didn't offend you in any way...

[SpeedsterX]

I've read stories about horse-bites, to asphalt take-downs. A lot of hub-bub over at the Nation. I know this might be a conflict of interest, but should we refuse to blow if asked?? --insert wise-a$$ remark here--It is absolutely your right to refuse a Breathalyzer. What these guys aren't telling you is that Breathalyzer's are not even admissible in court. They are just used to let us know to what extent of sobriety we are dealing with, if medical needs will be needed and for probable cause which we should have in the first place to make the contact or stop.

 

I've read that a guy stumbled or tripped over some litter, and was thought to be drunk and taken from the game out to perform sobriety tests until he passed them all, including the breathalizer. By the time he got back to the game, it was half time.

Well, I will say that if he was not giving the police or staff trouble, then it certainly does not take 2 hours to give an Indiana Standardized Field Sobriety test and Breathalyzer. It takes about 5-10 minutes so something in his story is at the very least, fishy.

 

And another involving a man who had been arrested yet refused to blow despite being tormented by stadium police. When finally the wagon showed up to pick up the over-spilling make-shift stadium jail cell, his pants button had been ripped off--causing his pants to fall to his ankles-- and he was forced to walk in his underwear through the tailgaters, into the wagon. I never heard this incident and it would be unprofessional for this to be allowed. Noone I know on ant true police force would allow this unless the suspect was fighting to the point of resisting law enforcement.

 

Again, these are accounts of people who had run-ins with the police at the game. I probably drank 10-15 beers before kick-off, but was never treated badly--but I also didn't over do it. I know that sounds excessive, but we got there around 8 am and I was in pain from my broken toe. Long story short, I'm not causing any problems with anyone.

I tell people, we are not idiots, we know almost EVERYBODY has been drinking and probably all day and most of us Officer's assume many of the underclassmen going to the game probably had been abiding as well. It's the smartas*, obnoxious, "I know my rights" individuals that attract attention to themselves are the ones usually (99%) getting the negative attention by the Police and Ushers and then they are usually so drunk that they'll let their actions or mouths write checks their sober selves would never write.

 

Regarding the take downs. I cannot tell you the specifics in every incident but we are allowed to take the next step higher in the force continuum than what we are receiving by the subject or suspect. e.g. I tell you to stop, you don't. I then grab your arm and tell you to stop, you pull away from me. I grab both arms and order you to stop, you pull away harder and flail your arms. I then take you down and force you to stop. And all that could happen in a matter of seconds, literally.

[SpeedsterX]

there are MANY stories on a very prominent ND fan website (i'm guessing you know which one that is) which do not fit either category you used in your response. i would be interested to get your take on those if you'd care to give it.

 

you provide an interesting viewpoint that i'm interested in reading but i am fully aware that your are coming from a very specific perspective. and quite frankly, with the number of people talking about specific incidents, well, it leads me to quote that old chestnut, "where there's smoke, there's fire."

 

but let me also say you are great poster on all things ND football and i enjoy and even look forward to your posts. hope i didn't offend you in any way...

 

Yes, I have a feeling that there may be some type of "crackdown" the University is having with the help of Indiana Excise as evidenced by the house party bust that happened recently. You also have to remember that yearly there are drunk driving deaths, rape, accidental deaths, etc. all alcohol related with ND students involved. Everyone has their own story to tell and I am sure if the guy I posted in my first post told HIS story, I am SURE it would sound something like this:

"Well ok I had a few, but I lost my ticket and went to the police to explain my situation because I didn't want to lose my friends or miss kickoff but they would not let me in even though I have my student ID so they "ORDERED" me to go back to the tailgate as if I don't have the right to go where i want. Well, I could see I was not getting anywhere with guys so I started walking away peacefully (of course not mentioning him kicking or damaging private property) and all of the sudden, these 2 Starsky and Hutch cops began to chase me. God, I thought they were going to kill me i was so scared so I ran. They then caught up with me and threw me to the ground like I was an animal and put them cold hard cuffs on me until my fingers turned blue. Of course, I never fought back and was peaceful with them throughout."

 

See. there's 2 sides and I guarantee that is NOT how it happened. When someone wants to be the victim, they can spin things to make themselves the victim especially when it involves someone who has authority over them. It's the more mature way to say as we were kids, "I didn't mean to break the window, I through the rock at Billy because he was being mean to me so it's BILLY'S fault.

 

I am in no way saying that Police being heavy handed has NEVER happened but to the extent that these (mostly college kids) are accusing, you would be hearing of lawsuits weekly especially with the money and prestige most of these kids parents have. They are making alot of smoke but I have never even felt alittle heat much less fire and if these things were truly happening regularly, AS THEY TELL IT, and it was MY kid, you can be assured I would start the "fire" but isn't it strange that there really is no "fire". And Blackirish, you are not offending me, you asked a valid question and deserved an honest answer.

[D Fence]

Speedster - really appreciate your input here. The University has been trying to crack down on the drinking thing for at least the past 15 years. I remember when I was an upperclassman and they hired a disciplinarian who might even still be there (O'Hara?), and the first order of business was to outlaw rental trucks (carrying trash barrels filled with ice and cases of beer) and student-sponsored tailgate parties.

 

I can understand why the University wants to protect their image and keep a relatively safe game atmosphere, and I don't disagree with you that if someone steps way over the line, they just made their own bed. But like the perspective you seem to be conveying, they should allow some moderate fun and understanding to be had by everyone alike. I'd personally be happier if the Excise police or NDPD working tailgaters issued more warnings or made underage students pour out their drinks versus issuing tickets and / or running people in. It all starts with the approach, and using a reasonable approach to stop the behavior (versus perhaps a more threatening one like pulling out a ticket book or handcuffs) can go a longer way in my opinion.

[Donjuan]

Yes, I have a feeling that there may be some type of "crackdown" the University is having with the help of Indiana Excise as evidenced by the house party bust that happened recently. You also have to remember that yearly there are drunk driving deaths, rape, accidental deaths, etc. all alcohol related with ND students involved. Everyone has their own story to tell and I am sure if the guy I posted in my first post told HIS story, I am SURE it would sound something like this:

"Well ok I had a few, but I lost my ticket and went to the police to explain my situation because I didn't want to lose my friends or miss kickoff but they would not let me in even though I have my student ID so they "ORDERED" me to go back to the tailgate as if I don't have the right to go where i want. Well, I could see I was not getting anywhere with guys so I started walking away peacefully (of course not mentioning him kicking or damaging private property) and all of the sudden, these 2 Starsky and Hutch cops began to chase me. God, I thought they were going to kill me i was so scared so I ran. They then caught up with me and threw me to the ground like I was an animal and put them cold hard cuffs on me until my fingers turned blue. Of course, I never fought back and was peaceful with them throughout."

 

See. there's 2 sides and I guarantee that is NOT how it happened. When someone wants to be the victim, they can spin things to make themselves the victim especially when it involves someone who has authority over them. It's the more mature way to say as we were kids, "I didn't mean to break the window, I through the rock at Billy because he was being mean to me so it's BILLY'S fault.

 

I am in no way saying that Police being heavy handed has NEVER happened but to the extent that these (mostly college kids) are accusing, you would be hearing of lawsuits weekly especially with the money and prestige most of these kids parents have. They are making alot of smoke but I have never even felt alittle heat much less fire and if these things were truly happening regularly, AS THEY TELL IT, and it was MY kid, you can be assured I would start the "fire" but isn't it strange that there really is no "fire". And Blackirish, you are not offending me, you asked a valid question and deserved an honest answer.

 

While it's the school's paper--Observer-- who's mostly writing about this, the majority of the complaints I've read about were from alumni or sub alumni. I've heard from many people starting back from last weekend and very few--if any--were under age. Most were mid thrirty and beyond with wives and children. I completely understand the crackdown on underage drinking. But from what I've read, this normally wasn't the case. I'm not saying that these stories are all completely true, but when there are so many that are similar, and coming from contributers who normally dare not defame anything ND, it makes you wonder a bit.

 

I know there will be a lot of tailgaters this weekend, taking up arms with video cameras and that sort of thing. I will wait to form an opinion until I see evidence--and let's hope that never happens or gets to that point!

I was treated fine, but then again, I wasn't exactly running around spot-lighting myself. Note to anyone going this weekend, just chill out and have a good time if tailgating. Sit down, relax, maybe throw the ball around a bit. Just avoid the drunken-confrontations with police. They won't stand for it and shouldn't have to.

[BlackIrish42]

Yes, I have a feeling that there may be some type of "crackdown" the University is having with the help of Indiana Excise as evidenced by the house party bust that happened recently. You also have to remember that yearly there are drunk driving deaths, rape, accidental deaths, etc. all alcohol related with ND students involved. Everyone has their own story to tell and I am sure if the guy I posted in my first post told HIS story, I am SURE it would sound something like this:

"Well ok I had a few, but I lost my ticket and went to the police to explain my situation because I didn't want to lose my friends or miss kickoff but they would not let me in even though I have my student ID so they "ORDERED" me to go back to the tailgate as if I don't have the right to go where i want. Well, I could see I was not getting anywhere with guys so I started walking away peacefully (of course not mentioning him kicking or damaging private property) and all of the sudden, these 2 Starsky and Hutch cops began to chase me. God, I thought they were going to kill me i was so scared so I ran. They then caught up with me and threw me to the ground like I was an animal and put them cold hard cuffs on me until my fingers turned blue. Of course, I never fought back and was peaceful with them throughout."

 

See. there's 2 sides and I guarantee that is NOT how it happened. When someone wants to be the victim, they can spin things to make themselves the victim especially when it involves someone who has authority over them. It's the more mature way to say as we were kids, "I didn't mean to break the window, I through the rock at Billy because he was being mean to me so it's BILLY'S fault.

 

I am in no way saying that Police being heavy handed has NEVER happened but to the extent that these (mostly college kids) are accusing, you would be hearing of lawsuits weekly especially with the money and prestige most of these kids parents have. They are making alot of smoke but I have never even felt alittle heat much less fire and if these things were truly happening regularly, AS THEY TELL IT, and it was MY kid, you can be assured I would start the "fire" but isn't it strange that there really is no "fire". And Blackirish, you are not offending me, you asked a valid question and deserved an honest answer.

 

well, i would only say that the majority of the incidents being mentioned are by subway and real alums, not "college kids." and i must say, while everyone here is being honest, some of your attitudes towards ND students and tailgaters are quite prejudicial. i find it troubling you say that they're are "there's 2 sides (to the story) and I guarantee that is NOT how it happened." i mean, you're saying in essence than that there is NOT two sides to the story. rather, you are saying - actually, you're "guarantee(ing)" - that the one side of the story is a lie. i'm sorry, i most confess i find that attitude troubling.

 

now, again, i realize the where you're coming from and for a man in your position there must be a natural tendency to be overly cynical about people but still, despite understanding it, it, nonetheless, disturbs me to some degree.

 

i am also distressed by the stories i hear about the monetary angle in these arrests and how some are claiming a net benefit for the state in these sorts of arrests. can anyone comment on that likelihood/possibility?

[jessemoore97]

Speedster and I definitely share similar views and opinions about our chosen profession. I don't have to deal with a major stadium here in Cedar Rapids for football, but I can definitely relate to large events like concerts etc going on and working them as an extra job. I will say that not all police offices are perfect and we do mess up from time to time. Much like Speedster, I am fairly tolerant of people in my duties and try not to be heavy handed in my approach to people to a point though. I'll warn people who are getting out of line and try and reign in their behavior, but if they refuse to go with the program then it may end up resulting in a night at the pokey.

 

People have to realize that officers do get tired of dealing with the same problems over and over again. Early in my career I was pretty tolerant of kids partying and drinking at the JR college in my area of town. This was in part because I was a recent college graduate and felt hypocritical for writing people for underage possession since I too drank underage. Before I went back to investigations I was getting really tired of having to go to that same school and its apartments for college parties/underage drinking. Half my 12 hour shift on Friday and Saturday nights involved calls to this area. Part of the problem is that the school expanded and many new apartments were opened up allowing for a much larger student population. The security guards would constantly have to call us out there because many of the students would not listen to them. It got old quick and my opinions changed dramatically because the students were being so bold and stupid in their approach to drinking etc.

 

Ultimately there are two sides to the story and both sides can provide their version in court and a judge or jury can decide between the two. Obviously consuming alcohol and admitting to it can hinder your story in court as maybe being somewhat less reliable, right or wrong. Each incident has to speak for itself.

[ND FANATIC]

"Dont tase me bro".....;)

[tdnd81]

"Dont tase me bro".....;)

Wow thats a good one Fan !!!

 

I'm sure Speedy and 97 are fine cops...Problem is, alot of cops are absolute A-holes, and just bust people for stupid things, i have seen it many times.

 

Its a tough job dealing with losers, creeps, rapists etc.. Throw those dirtbags in jail! Its the cop that tells adults not to throw the football during the tailgate, or my aunt getting a speeding ticket for 23 in a 20...no sh!t.... or i could go on and on and on and on.

 

Again I'm sure you guys are great cops, parents, etc.. It only takes a couple of prick's in any profession, to give the profession a bad name.

[phillyirishfan]

Their our various stories and threads out their from what I have read people our not happy.

http://therockreport.blogspot.com/2008/09/its-worse-than-we-thought.html

 

http://www.ndnation.com/geetar/2008/09/quid-pro-quo.html

 

http://therockreport.blogspot.com/2008/09/tailgating-gestapo-gone-bonkers.html

[SpeedsterX]

But like the perspective you seem to be conveying, they should allow some moderate fun and understanding to be had by everyone alike. I'd personally be happier if the Excise police or NDPD working tailgaters issued more warnings or made underage students pour out their drinks versus issuing tickets and / or running people in.

 

I cannot speak for ISP but they generally get their orders from the University and when the University says, "tickets aren't working so we need to step things up", that's what happens. Less is tolerated and more arrests are made. I am to the belief that many of those posters must start to realize, their problems are not necessarily with the Police as they are just doing what they are told to do and being payed to do. I think their real problem is with the University itself.

 

If the University tells the cooks, only cook meat well done from now on, it doesn't matter whether they nuke it or charbroil it, it's going to get cooked well done either way. If it's my (as many other Officer's would say) choice whether to take 5 minutes and write a ticket or take an hour or more to haul someone in and do all the paperwork ALL FOR THE SAME OFFENSE (especially while enjoying a Notre Dame game) wouldn't you think we would choose the former most any time? I do what I am ordered to do by the powers that be as long as it's legal and not unconstitutional.

[phillyirishfan]

Thank you speedsterx. Your 100% right. My problem is if your not breaking the law you should be left alone. I go to Notre Dame every year it costs me a lot of money. I will be doing a BLOG to go into further detail

[SpeedsterX]

well, i would only say that the majority of the incidents being mentioned are by subway and real alums, not "college kids." and i must say, while everyone here is being honest, some of your attitudes towards nd students and tailgaters are quite prejudicial. I find it troubling you say that they're are "there's 2 sides (to the story) and i guarantee that is not how it happened." i mean, you're saying in essence than that there is not two sides to the story. Rather, you are saying - actually, you're "guarantee(ing)" - that the one side of the story is a lie. I'm sorry, i most confess i find that attitude troubling.

 

Now, again, i realize the where you're coming from and for a man in your position there must be a natural tendency to be overly cynical about people but still, despite understanding it, it, nonetheless, disturbs me to some degree.

 

please don't let me saying that it's not how it happened. I'm guaranteeing that one specific incident i was involved in not all the other stories. everyone has their own side of their story some of these incidents were alarming "if" they happened exactly the way described by that one side. I am just giving you what has been "my" experience and most of them have been with the underage and legal age students. I have never had a negative runin with an alum or subway alum.

 

 

I will say this though. This started with the fact that underage drinkers were getting stung at tailgates and then people were telling "their" stories, underage or not.

 

i am also distressed by the stories i hear about the monetary angle in these arrests and how some are claiming a net benefit for the state in these sorts of arrests. Can anyone comment on that likelihood/possibility?

in the great scheme of things, 30 pi arrests for every home game would be negligible to the state coffers. I see no credibility in this angle. Sorry.

[SpeedsterX]

Wow thats a good one Fan !!!

 

I'm sure Speedy and 97 are fine cops...Problem is, alot of cops are absolute A-holes, and just bust people for stupid things, i have seen it many times. Yea, ask any cop and they will tell you of cops that are a-holes and even cops we might suspect to be dirty. As jesse said, there HAS to be a line somewhere. A limit to where you say, ok, now my "a-hole side" comes out because this person refuses to listen to reason or even authoritative commands.

 

 

 

Its a tough job dealing with losers, creeps, rapists etc.. Throw those dirtbags in jail! Its the cop that tells adults not to throw the football during the tailgate, or my aunt getting a speeding ticket for 23 in a 20...no sh!t.... or i could go on and on and on and on. I am in no way saying those things don't happen but, honestly, I have never seen one of MY compatriots do these things. It's idiotic.

 

Again I'm sure you guys are great cops, parents, etc.. It only takes a couple of prick's in any profession, to give the profession a bad name.

Hey, I used to be a used car salesman too! True! I didn't like the conatation that came with the job so I quit that profession (also, I wasn't very good at it. LOL!)

[SpeedsterX]

Thank you speedsterx. Your 100% right. My problem is if your not breaking the law you should be left alone. I go to Notre Dame every year it costs me a lot of money. I will be doing a BLOG to go into further detail

 

I TOTALLY agree, if you are not breaking the law, you should be left alone!

 

If there was evidence that I witnessed to the contrary, believe me, I would be blowing the whistle as many of us try to do the right thing and do a great job, and a few can hurt the whole.