phillyirishfan Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 What does everyone think of how the Irish are improvement/ My overall opinion is its taking longer to improve in areas then I would like. Certain phases of the game are not improved at all. The one phase is running the Football. Charlie has been quoted as saying he wanted to pound teams with the running game. Their lucky to get a half a yard a carry. Whats the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_Irish Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 While Ty brought in talented players (Bruton, Crum) the lack of depth is still hurting the team. Obviously after two BCS bowls people expected big things in year 4, but I like how recruiting has gone under Weis. So even if things dont work out in the long run, the next coach will have more talent to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillyirishfan Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 I still think it will work out. The talent is their they just need to get tougher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND FANATIC Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 There are alot of things that have improved over the last 4 yrs: recruiting.... coaching staff.... defense.... offensive skill players... And there are some things that haven't improved much, and we won't be the team we all want until they do.... overall offensive play - we have to be able to run the ball coaching staff - some changes still need to be made special teams - return game kicking game.... creative play calling.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGuy Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 There are alot of things that have improved over the last 4 yrs: recruiting.... coaching staff.... defense.... offensive skill players... And there are some things that haven't improved much, and we won't be the team we all want until they do.... overall offensive play - we have to be able to run the ball coaching staff - some changes still need to be made special teams - return game kicking game.... creative play calling.... Nail on the head.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdnd81 Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Yep you nailed it Fan... Kicking game, ST have not improved... and winning hasn't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangeruss Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 There are alot of things that have improved over the last 4 yrs: recruiting.... coaching staff.... defense.... offensive skill players... And there are some things that haven't improved much, and we won't be the team we all want until they do.... overall offensive play - we have to be able to run the ball coaching staff - some changes still need to be made special teams - return game kicking game.... creative play calling.... i also agree. i would also add that CW's first recruiting class are now juniors, by now we should be seeing big improvement across the board which we aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyglue Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 i also agree. i would also add that CW's first recruiting class are now juniors, by now we should be seeing big improvement across the board which we aren't. Don't forget that 2 major players in that class (QBs) both left ND. If you took them out plus the OL kid from Arkansas (I didn't do my research but i think he was in that class) this class was not nearly as highly rated as initially thought. Just my 2 cents but how quickly we forget the past. CW took 2 teams to a BCS game (any one remember that?) and we only had one bad year. I keep on hearing comparisons to SC, Texas, OSU here. Ask Miami how quickly a team that seemingly will forever be on top falls from grace. Or better yet, ask SMU how difficult it is to come back from obscurity. This is a process that takes time. 2 years ago (with arguably our best team since Lou) we couldn't play 4 quarters with OSU's and LSU's. Now we at least have the depth and talent to be in the game for all 4 quarters. To me that’s a major change for the better For the future we have some very good young players at most if not all our skill positions. Just as we are seeing childish/ignorant mistakes off the field we will see them on the field as well. We will go through growing pains. Ups and downs are marks of young players. I guess what I am saying is we are not going to be the top of the best of the best in CFB a year after we only won 3 games. Give it time boys and girls, CW has righted the ship and we are moving in the right direction but it’s a journey not a sprint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest irishrick Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 krazyglue, good points we will get back this year , i don't see any more loss games except SC AND NC, WE SHOUL WIND UP 9-3 AND A BOWL GAME I HOPE . GO IRISH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katzenboyer Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I think Weis has put to bed the notion that you can't recruit elite talent to ND. The problem is, I'm not so sold on how this staff has developed that talent. I don't care that they're young. Georgia won last year with a team younger than ours, in the SEC, and went to a BCS Bowl. It's make or break time for Charlie, in my eyes. I love the guy, I love the attitude he has -- but your team should be a reflection of your personality, and I don't see that with the Irish. I hope that after this season, my tune has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangeruss Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I think Weis has put to bed the notion that you can't recruit elite talent to ND. The problem is, I'm not so sold on how this staff has developed that talent. I don't care that they're young. Georgia won last year with a team younger than ours, in the SEC, and went to a BCS Bowl. It's make or break time for Charlie, in my eyes. I love the guy, I love the attitude he has -- but your team should be a reflection of your personality, and I don't see that with the Irish. I hope that after this season, my tune has changed. i totally agree with everything you said. we all know CW can recruite but still their is concerns with the depth on the DL, hopefully the DL brought in during the '08 class can help that. as good as ND was in the first two years thats how bad they've been since. the offense is much more talented on offesnse with the exception of QB and WR. im still don't understand why CW hasn't been able to get his talented players to play to their potential. i can understand the 3-9 seson in '07 and i can stand a 9-3 seson this year only if ND shows improvement in each game (im not talking about ND winning games becasue the other team fumbles it away like michigan did). i think the passing game will get there, JC just needs to learn to read defenses a little better but the running game has to much work to do to think that it'll be fixed by the end of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouchingjedi Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 There are alot of things that have improved over the last 4 yrs: recruiting.... coaching staff.... defense.... offensive skill players... And there are some things that haven't improved much, and we won't be the team we all want until they do.... overall offensive play - we have to be able to run the ball coaching staff - some changes still need to be made special teams - return game kicking game.... creative play calling.... Very complete list here. Some additional things that have been positive changes over the past 4 years: Accountability and transparency--CW definitely changed the environment in that he has been extremely open and available to the media and therefore the fans, students and alumni. He understands why those things matter at ND. This was an immeasurable improvement over the previous coaching regime. Improved image for recruits--Despite a tough year last year, since CW arrived ND is perceived by recruits as more of an NFL training ground--a place where a top recruit can feel confident he will be in a place to help him get to the next level. This is helped by CW developing BQ, his relationships with NFL teams, etc. The things I am disappointed in not seeing enough progress: Winning the war in the trenches OL & DL--would have liked to see progress by now but the jury's still out Winning big games (USC, Bowl games, highly ranked teams)--it seems Lou always had that "it" factor in big games where you just knew we would at least make it a fight down to the wire. Winning a big game is definitely missing from CWs resume after 4 years and no, Mich who ended up 7-5 in 2005 doesn't count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGuy Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Not "really" football related, but one very positive thing I have seen as well is that CW REALLY cares about academics. He has made it clear that ND is a place where you come to get a degree....he prepares his guys to be successful in life (even if the NFL doesn't pan out for all of them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyglue Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Not "really" football related, but one very positive thing I have seen as well is that CW REALLY cares about academics. He has made it clear that ND is a place where you come to get a degree....he prepares his guys to be successful in life (even if the NFL doesn't pan out for all of them). Well put and something I myself forget from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gipper2nd Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 In my opinion...........he's got one more year............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillyirishfan Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share Posted September 25, 2008 Thanks for all the great opinions. I also think it all needs to come together next year. Also we have to remember Tyrone Willingham left this program for dead. Now I know your thinking that I am blaming this on Tyrone. I am not I am just stating facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickJD08 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I think the Defense is getting better. The DL is a serious problem as far as recruiting and teaching. I think they have gotten worse. I think the OL has gotten worse every year. And I think the stats prove it too as far as rushing ranking in the country. I loved the first couple of years Weis was at ND but I was still upset that he wasn't preparing for last year and this year. I mean that I wished he would have gotten guys alot more reps in a game when we had the game. Instead, we have a bunch of guys with no playing time on the field at the same time last year. I think, from the looks of it, we are a year behind. The way we look this year should have been the way we looked last year. And whoever brought in Floyd should be thanked but regardless, we lucked out. There are very very few players that come into college as polished as he is. I know its just a thought, but could you imagine Clausen throwing to Tate, Floyd, and Benn (if he wasn't stolen away by IL). That would have been crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest irishangler Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Don't forget that 2 major players in that class (QBs) both left ND. If you took them out plus the OL kid from Arkansas (I didn't do my research but i think he was in that class) this class was not nearly as highly rated as initially thought. Just my 2 cents but how quickly we forget the past. CW took 2 teams to a BCS game (any one remember that?) and we only had one bad year. I keep on hearing comparisons to SC, Texas, OSU here. Ask Miami how quickly a team that seemingly will forever be on top falls from grace. Or better yet, ask SMU how difficult it is to come back from obscurity. This is a process that takes time. 2 years ago (with arguably our best team since Lou) we couldn't play 4 quarters with OSU's and LSU's. Now we at least have the depth and talent to be in the game for all 4 quarters. To me that’s a major change for the better For the future we have some very good young players at most if not all our skill positions. Just as we are seeing childish/ignorant mistakes off the field we will see them on the field as well. We will go through growing pains. Ups and downs are marks of young players. I guess what I am saying is we are not going to be the top of the best of the best in CFB a year after we only won 3 games. Give it time boys and girls, CW has righted the ship and we are moving in the right direction but it’s a journey not a sprint. Let us NEVER EVER compare ND Football to SMU football. If we are making such comparisons, then we truly have reached the bottom of the barrel. The state of ND Football does not even compare to a team that got the death penalty. If it does, then ND should pull all of the scholarships, fire all the high priced coaches...and completely dismantle the football program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishCalves Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Things are going perhaps a little bit slower than expected because reloading the cupboard has taken a bit longer than expected. Charlie's 1st haul has seen 8 departures out of 28, and a few of the defensive players in that class have been lost in the wash between 3 different defensive schemes (Minter, Corwin's 3-4, and now Tenuta's Blitzkreig). Couple unnatural attrition with a few missed evaluations thanks to a rookie staff (though Ianello is a helluva recruiting coordinator), and you don't see Charlie's 1st wave taking over at QB, RB, WR, or DL in a year like this. Not to say it isn't all on him, but it is a reason why we aren't seeing a juggernaut right away. Older guys like Ara said if you're not winning by the 3rd year, you're never going to. Its a little different in today's game. I'd be interested to see what kind of transfer rates were going on at ND in the 60's and 70's. It was also a different era in that the scholarship limits do change things up. What, wasn't Joe Montana a 6th string QB or something at one point early in his career? There simply isn't space for a thing like that any more, nor would players have the patience to sit and wait their turn. We're getting there. Its going to take more patience than we exercised with Ty, but we'll get there. He's dedicated, he's busting his hump, he's owning up to his mistakes and evolving whenever presented with a chance to improve himself as a head coach. Of course there are things about his profile that are going to irritate me, but nobody is perfect. Just exercise a little more patience, look at the bigger picture and how that has improved since the Davieham era, and I think we'll be pleasantly surprised over the next 2-3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackIrish42 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 look, the NUMBER ONE job, esp. today, for a CFB coach is recruiting. beginning-middle-end-of-story. and on that most important front, CW is doing it better than anyone post lou. thus, i am willing to give him at LEAST 2 more years before i consider alternatives. you win with talent. period. i won't go into that bogus and factually incorrect assertion that CW has not developed talent. that has been disproven by his first two years and this year (so far). and despite the anecdotal evidence many of you give on here on a seemingly daily basis, scout's and rivals' star grading system is the single BEST indicator of CFB success for HS senior. so, as long as CW brings in the 4 and 5* guys, we'll be fine. now, i, like so many of you, wonder if latina is the answer as the OL coach. more and mroe i think not. i'm not thrilled with the place-kicking game but the rest of the special teams have improved this season so far, IMO, so that's less of a concern. as for the Dline, yes we need more recruits there. but in CW's tenure he has re-built our DB's and RB's when both units were decimated by ty and his lack of recruiting. and of course his lack of OL recruits also is almost completely rectified. i trust CW and brown to rebuild the Dline as well. many of you seem to forget or maybe never heard or read about it but ty's last two years of recruiting coupled with CW only have a couple of weeks to recruit his first class, etc. lead ND to essentially suffer the same kind of low numbers of players as a team who had suffered the NCAA's "death penalty!" to me, the significance of that *cannot* be over-stated. only this year have we even begun to have the kind of depth to allow us to join the top 40 of CFB programs in america. that's how far we've had to come thanks to willingham's historically awful recruiting. these are NOT "excuses." these are facts. CW has work still to be done but i will continue to ultimately judge him on the number one criteria, recruiting. and so far, he's right on course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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