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Guest SirJohn

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I'm not sure if the pix will be appropriate for a family friendly place like DD.

 

SD is right! LOL!!

 

Although, they aren't too bad. I am over that kind of thing as this wasn't my first time there. I will share the pictures once they are downloaded in Photobucket.

 

There's plenty of sexy but nothing too risque. If you'd like to see them, I'll send you guys a link through PM's once I get them downloaded. Might take me awhile. I'll let ya'all know.:-D

 

(BTW, sorry I missed getting to meet you SD, if you can make a game this year, I will definitely make some time!)

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Yeah, I'm sorry we weren't able to meet up Speed. My schedule has been so crazy these days between work and my wife and I building a house. I can't even see straight most of the time.

 

I hope you had a good time in the good ole' Black Hills. I know numbers were down this year but I think someone from the BH Harley Davidson dealer put it best, "I'd rather have 300,000 bikers with money than 500,000 bikes without money."

 

The most important thing is just being safe while you're out here. Too many bikers get in too big of a hurry and end up costing their lives. It's scary some of the things I've seen the beginning of each August.

 

Also, one of the guys I work with also plays in a pretty popular band and they were playing during the shooting at the Loud American. He said at first he didnt know what was going on until he looked over and saw the guy fire two more shots. I find it absolutely amazing that the guy wasn't arrested and was able to go home when from what I heard, he was in the wrong. I guess it helps to be a cop huh Speed? hahaha

 

And sure, I'd love to see some pictures since I didn't get to take in much of the Rally this year. And, if I'm ever able to afford to get to South Bend, I'll be sure and let you know. One of these years...one of these year.

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Guest irishrick

sd why wasn't he arrested for the shooting ? anyone hurt? sort of stupid if you asked me , i can't fire a shot at a crow, without getting a warning. just kidding . rick

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sd why wasn't he arrested for the shooting ? anyone hurt? sort of stupid if you asked me , i can't fire a shot at a crow, without getting a warning. just kidding . rick

 

He wasn't arrested b/c he is claiming self defense. There is a bunch of funny things going on with the law. It is legal to carry a firearm in an establishment that sells alcohol, but only if you are a cop. BUT, if that cop has been disiplined for behavior, it is NOT legal. Also, if the officer is drinking, it is also not legal.

 

This officer from Seattle has apparently had several administrative punishments b/c of his attitude and quick temper.

 

Basically, if it was you or I, we would be in jail while they sort it out. But, in my opinion, since he is a cop, he's not been arrested. Also, the shootee was a Hells Angel, so that doesn't help.

 

Also, the story I was told was not only did he shoot him, resulting in the guy being on the ground, he also walked over him, and fired another shot at him point blank. In my opinion, that is no longer self defense, that is attempted murder. But, what do I know.

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I really cannot answer your questions as 1. I was not there. 2. different departments and jurisdictions have different rules regarding off-duty carry. 3. i haven't heard the particulars and not informed of the specifics.

 

I will say this though, most any officer involved shooting has the officer go "on-duty" the moment he acts, alcohol or not. Now jurisdictionally, i have no clue what and where his powers could have been in force.

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The gist of what happened is this:

 

This cop (off-duty) from Seattle, along with several other cops from Seattle, are part of a "biker gang" called the Iron Pigs. They were out here for the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally and were in a bar called the Loud American Roadhouse, as a vacation not as acting police officers. They had their "colors" on in the bar. Apparently a Hells Angel member came up and informed him that they couldn't wear their colors b/c Hells Angels are the only ones allowed to wear colors, yada yada. (If any of you know anything about biker gangs, you know that colors are their most prized possessions and many people are often killed as a result of wearing the wrong colors in the wrong place.) Anyway, this lead to yelling, yelling lead to shoving, shoving lead to punching, and punching lead to one of the cops pulling out a gun and shooting the Hells Angel member two times.

 

I've heard various stories about details of the fight, there were multiple Iron Pigs and multiple Hells Angels involved. But, the self defense argument only works for me, and i believe for the law, if you have no other option but to defend yourself. In my opinion, the off-duty cops probably had several opportunities to just walk away. As soon as the Hells Angel made a comment about colors, he could have said, "YOu are right, I will go take them off."

 

To me, it's not self-defense if you are in a "bar-fight" and pull out your gun b/c either you or your buddy are getting your butts whooped.

 

But, this is all second hand information from various people who were either there or know people who were there. And, we all know how information travels, especially in small communities. It should be interesting to see how this plays out. And, now that they have release the guys name, I sure hope they put his family under protection.

 

Also, I dont want to give the Rally a bad name. 99% of the people who come out for the Rally are good people, doctors, lawyers, police officers, playing biker for a week. Its great for our local economy and the state as a whole. Most of the bikers I've met are the nicest of people. And, the Rally used to be a much worse place with gangs, drugs, and violence, but it is not that anymore. But, like any other large gathering, there are the "One Percenters" which ruin it for everyone.

Edited by SDIrishFan
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Well, as for "bikers" go, I consider myself a motorcycle enthusiast and as I have been riding for 26 years, I believe I can consider myself a "biker". I am not, however, a 1%er. Although, I have socialized (spoke with over a beer) with a few 1%er's and have NEVER had a problem with them and have found them respectful of not only my person but also my career, believe it or not. My opinion about the whole "colors" thing is I think it childish, but to each their own. When I go to places that frequent bikers and possibly 1%er's, it's just a matter of respect. You show respect, you get respect. After reading your version of things, I believe both parties crossed the line. Most, if not all, true 1%er's know what and who the "colors" are that shouldn't be in their territory. There are literally thousands of social motorcycle clubs (such as the Iron Pigs, Lone Wolf's etc.) that are never a threat to Angel's territory. It's not like they ran across a group of Outlaws MC. I find the whole story hard to believe as I predict it may have started another way. Either way, I agree, if there were no signs of other weapons and everyone else stayed out, just duking it out could have saved alot of problems and the loser buys the next round. I will not second guess another Officer though as, like I said, I don't know the whole story. If he did wrong, then he should face the consequences.

Edited by SpeedsterX
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I agree with you Speed. And like I said, I certainly don't know all the facts, these are just things I've been told and gathered from what I've read in the papers.

 

But, I believe the police officer should have done everything he could to de-escalate the situation rather than escalating it himself. Like you said, whether an officer is on-duty or off-duty, their instincts are always on-duty. In that case he should have been the first one to step back, grab one of the 100 uniformed on-duty officers that were standing outside the door and inside the bar and said, "We're not going to do this. If you have a problem, take it up with this fine officer."

 

The only way I can understand his actions were if he had absolutly no opportunity to walk-away. I mean if the HA walked up to him, pulled a knife or whatever, and went after him, that is one thing. But if the fight progressed from point A to point B to point C, then it should have never come to that.

 

And, it's easy for me to judge when I'm not in the situation. But in my opinion, police officers should be some of the best people at calming down a dangerous situation and doing everything they can to not get in a shootout in a crowded bar.

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Guest SirJohn

Thanks for the information Speedster and don't for get pix, pix, pix. :)

 

Just a side note Domain Mods really do go that extra mile to bring readers as up to date information as is possible. Thanks guys. :)

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