Why not TyQuan Hammock?

[Guest nexus11313]

Anyone have any info on whether or not ND is looking at offering FW Luers LB TyQuan Hammock? He's got as good or better numbers than Calabrese and Carson and is right in ND's backyard. I know that physical stats aren't everything but this kid is the real deal. If you check out his Rivals video you'll see him chasing down ND's newest athletic WR John Goodman all over the backfield.

[Guest SirJohn]

Hey nexus. Check your friendship list. I seriously do not know why. Perhaps it's grades or the Coaches have other canidates in mind? Weis did say in 2005 "Whadda they know?" In regards to Rivals or Scout guys.

[notredomer23]

bigger fish to fry. He is a good player, but we have offerred better prospects

[Rockne3d]

His offer list is NOT very good. His best offers are Louisville, Minnesota and Indiana.

[da coach]

His offer list is NOT very good. His best offers are Louisville, Minnesota and Indiana.

 

 

I didn't know we only recruited players that were recruited by bigger/better schools.

 

Sometimes it is worth the gamble on taking in a local prospect who will work his way into a contributor on special teams and a 4th/5th year of productivity...

 

All I'm saying is that Cooper and Te'o aren't coming to South Bend, so if we have a need to fill and we have a kid in our backyard, who can fill it why don't we just lock him up and move on...

 

This is the same argument I have with Kyle Koehne, sometimes this staff (and blog) are too concerned with Tom Lemming's ratings of a player...If you have a kid with the requisite size, strength and speed...Why not let your coaches develop the technique and harvest the talent...

 

Its not like ND plays in the SEC and can't afford to bring in a few players that develop thru time...Sometimes, I feel like we are only going after top 10 players and the rest are ignored...when in reality a lot of those players develop into high draft picks in the NFL and a lot of the blue chip players wash out...

 

We must have balance in our recruiting classes, in order to promote competition and slow down the amount of transfers we have leaving the program...Seriously, do you think if Koehne or Hammock signed they would ever transfer ??? NO ! They would stay their entire tenure at ND, earn a degree and have a good chance at playing pro football...I thought that is what this program was all about, not the 3 years and out players...

 

Something is changing here, and I'm not too sure I like it.

[ColinKSU]

I didn't know we only recruited players that were recruited by bigger/better schools.

 

Sometimes it is worth the gamble on taking in a local prospect who will work his way into a contributor on special teams and a 4th/5th year of productivity...

 

All I'm saying is that Cooper and Te'o aren't coming to South Bend, so if we have a need to fill and we have a kid in our backyard, who can fill it why don't we just lock him up and move on...

 

This is the same argument I have with Kyle Koehne, sometimes this staff (and blog) are too concerned with Tom Lemming's ratings of a player...If you have a kid with the requisite size, strength and speed...Why not let your coaches develop the technique and harvest the talent...

 

Its not like ND plays in the SEC and can't afford to bring in a few players that develop thru time...Sometimes, I feel like we are only going after top 10 players and the rest are ignored...when in reality a lot of those players develop into high draft picks in the NFL and a lot of the blue chip players wash out...

 

We must have balance in our recruiting classes, in order to promote competition and slow down the amount of transfers we have leaving the program...Seriously, do you think if Koehne or Hammock signed they would ever transfer ??? NO ! They would stay their entire tenure at ND, earn a degree and have a good chance at playing pro football...I thought that is what this program was all about, not the 3 years and out players...

 

Something is changing here, and I'm not too sure I like it.

 

When we're trying to pass ourselves off as being on the same level as USC, OSU, LSU, etc...It usually helps to have players those schools care about.

[Rockne3d]

I didn't know we only recruited players that were recruited by bigger/better schools.

 

 

Hey da coach, I just wanted to thank you for putting words in my mouth. I really do appreciate that.

 

 

All I'm saying is that Cooper and Te'o aren't coming to South Bend, so if we have a need to fill and we have a kid in our backyard, who can fill it why don't we just lock him up and move on...

 

 

Who says that Hammock can fill that need? You? Not sure who Cooper is but we are still in the game for Te'o. We are not the favorite and are still a long shot but we are still in it. You say a kid in our backyard should be locked up to fill that need. The staff has not offered him, they obviously do NOT feel that he CAN fill that need. Otherwise, he would be holding an offer.

 

Also, II shows Hammock as a ILB and we already have Calabrese at ILB and there is talk that we may only take one ILB, although Carson just received an offer so that contradicts that. But I have only seen Carson play on the outside but again Rivals has him as an ILB . if we issued another ILB, Barrett would probably get the next offer.

 

 

This is the same argument I have with Kyle Koehne, sometimes this staff (and blog) are too concerned with Tom Lemming's ratings of a player...If you have a kid with the requisite size, strength and speed...Why not let your coaches develop the technique and harvest the talent...

 

 

As a staff member and a long time member of this board I have ZERO concern with what Tom Lemming says. Almost everyone one of us at one time or another has said that we realize that stars do not mean much, but it is the only standard ranking system that is available. The star system is simply part of the equation as we each evaluate the recruits throughout the recruiting season. Again, thank you for putting words in my mouth. You're good at that.

 

A combination of size, strength and speed does not always equal football player. You are the one who calls yourself "da coach", you should know that better than anyone of us on this board. This staff has already offered 10 LB's in this class, among those ten is a ton of size, strength and speed who our staff (who is very good by the way) believes are better Football Players than Hammock. That number could also be viewed as more than 10 since when we play a 3-4 some of those DE's would be OLB's.

 

 

Its not like ND plays in the SEC and can't afford to bring in a few players that develop thru time...Sometimes, I feel like we are only going after top 10 players and the rest are ignored...when in reality a lot of those players develop into high draft picks in the NFL and a lot of the blue chip players wash out...

 

 

I'm trying hard to avoid your blunder of putting words in people's mouth but i'm finding it hard on this one so i'll phrase it gently. It almost sounds like you are being negative on Charlie's recruiting efforts. This sounds odd following his 3 blockbuster classes that he just landed. Hey, maybe i'm missing something.

 

By the way, there is a good chance we play in the SEC-during a major bowl game.

 

 

We must have balance in our recruiting classes, in order to promote competition and slow down the amount of transfers we have leaving the program...Seriously, do you think if Koehne or Hammock signed they would ever transfer ??? NO ! They would stay their entire tenure at ND, earn a degree and have a good chance at playing pro football...I thought that is what this program was all about, not the 3 years and out players...

 

 

Now YOU are predicting the future? You know that Hammock and Koehne would NOT transfer? Why? Cuz they grew up close to ND? Koehne and Aaron Nagel grew up the same distance from South Bend, that didn't keep Nagel here. And you also know they would have a good chance at playing pro football? I would bet that they would have a greater chance at playing in the NFL by going to a school that has less talent in front of them so they have a better chance of seeing the field. It's hard to get in the NFL if you don't play. I'm not saying they will or won't play if they went to ND. But if they are fringe players, I will say that their odds of getting on the field and getting to the NFL would be greater if they went to a MAC-type of school.

 

Since when did we become a "3 and out player" school? The answer is: We haven't. And you have zero grounds to even make that statement (atleast you were consistent within your entire post). Sure some will but we have had very little of that. Darius and not much else beyond that recently. Even Brady stayed. We are what we have always been.

 

 

Sorry to be rude and blunt but I thought your ENTIRE post was a bunch of opinionated, unsupported bulls**t! I'd like to end this by again thanking you for putting words in my mouth! It's safe to say that you hit a nerve!!!!

[tchris555]

that's terrible news about cooper not coming. good thing i have no idea who that is.

[Double_Domer]

that's terrible news about cooper not coming. good thing i have no idea who that is.

 

Cooper, Cooper, hey that guy owes me money...

[IrishGuy]

There is one area of CW's game that cannot be questioned.....he evaluation of players, and his recruiting.

 

CW has shown time and time again that he knows what he is doing. Hell, no one seemed to know JT's name til CW came around. Soon after we pick him up, every school in the country was on his jock.

 

CW is NOT going to bring a guy in "just to fill a spot". He is NOT going to bring a guy in "just to add depth". He is bringing in guys that can AND WILL challenge from day 1. He brings in guys that will constantly push those above him on the depth chart. He is bringing in guys that are going to make our team better. In short, he is doing what the USCs and OSUs of the world have been doing for years. If he starts taking guys just because they are a position of need is what the small schools with average to below average teams do.

 

If you want to complete with the Big Boys, you have to recruit like them....and recruit against them. If you want to be mediocre, then you bring in mediocre players "to fill spots".

[da coach]

Allow me to take a minute to correct myself...Cooper = Carson. My bad, I know it is silly to make an obvious mistake, but it happens...

 

As for the transfer argument...Nagel transferred because in his own words, he wasn't good enough to see the field anytime soon. Hammock and Koehne in my estimation are good enough and fall into positions of needed depth, making the likelihood of them seeing the field better and their desire to transfer smaller...

 

In my estimation, Hammock is a solid player who I have seen play on a couple of occassions and he has a frame to add more weight and plays VERY fast...Seems to be a good fit in the 3-4 as he is a downhill style of linebacker who can focus more on the run. Since we are going after more inside linebackers for this class, it just makes sense to bring in a kid now that we can get and have him work his way up the food chain rather than be disappointed in his limited playing time (Carufel, Jones, etc...)

 

I may be higher on the kid than some, but I do think that the way this recruiting class is setting up, we may be holding the bag on a few scholarships...I don't believe we used all of the available schollys last year or the year before and we are well behind the curve this year... I would just like to have a full class come in and compete for playing time, whatever star ranking they receive from XYZ scouting service.

 

I may be the lone voice in this argument, but I also think that Koehne is a solid prospect and fills a major need for quality offensive lineman. He has received several big ten offers and will receive more as time goes on...If we want to hold our breath for LaLota or Nixon, I'm all for it...and we can bring in 4 or 5 lineman in this class, that won't hurt us at all... The idea that bringing in a 4 star recruit being an unwise move, is silly to me.

 

In my opinion we are going after recruits who may not want to be at Notre Dame, as much as they want to feel wanted by a coaching staff. I think there needs to be a balance between the "bluechip" and the "blue collar" kids in every class so that the work ethic and passion is on clear display inside the locker room on a daily basis. That was my experience when I played in college, and I assume things haven't changed that much in 7 years...

 

I believe the kids who want to be at Notre Dame will push those who want to be individual stars (not to call them out by name by I think we all know who they are)...And yes, sometimes you are able to find the best of both worlds with guys like Zbikowski who are highly rated and work hard when they arrive...but sometimes you get guys who just don't have the fire...Some of our offensive lineman regressed last year and I can only assume in part it is because they were distracted or did not work hard enough to get better...The real problem was that we didn't have anyone ready to go as their backup, because of a lack of depth at the position...That is why I want depth in the recruiting classes...you have to have the players compete to get better and right now we are too thin along the offensive line and could be too thin at the LB position in the next year or so.

 

That is why Ohio State, USC and LSU have been the most consistant programs in the country over the past ten years...They have the tradition and pieces in place to bring in the top 100 kids year in and year out, but those kids are balanced out by the local kids who have made it their life's dream to play in the shoe, the coliseum or whatever they call that cockroach infested hell hole in Baton Rouge... In fact if you look at most national championship teams over the past 5 or so years, the Juniors and Seniors of those classes weren't always the blue chip recruits.

 

Maybe the Golic boys, Paskorz, Brian Smith or Hafis Williams will fill that role, but I personally don't like it when someone posts that ND should not recruit him because he is only receiving lower level Big Ten offers to this point...That argument makes no sense to me. If the kid can play, you have a need at the position, the kid works hard and wants to get better in your program and you have an abundance of scholarship space available to bring him in...YOU DO IT... You don't do it for all of those guys, but you do it for at least 2 or 3 per year...

 

I apologize, if I put words in anyone's mouth or it was perceived as that, I certainly enjoy this lounge and hope to contribute to it for years to come, but that comment made no sense to me and I reacted...

[da coach]

If you want to complete with the Big Boys, you have to recruit like them....and recruit against them. If you want to be mediocre, then you bring in mediocre players "to fill spots".

 

I guess my only rebuttal to this would be that OSU and USC had some success in working with 3* recruits like:

 

AJ Hawk, Nick Mangold (one star), Jay Richardson (one star), TJ Downing (two star), Doug Dattish, Rob Sims, Ashton Youboty, Kirk Barton, Todd Boekman, Vernon Gholston, Antonio Pittman, Donald Washington, John Kerr, James Laurinitis and Malcom Jenkins...Seriously, look at the lower level recruits from the midwest that were passed on by a lot of programs and developed into solid NCAA players and some elite NFL talent...With most of these kids coming from the midwest, I would think this is a fair level of comparison...

 

USC has also survived on 3* recruits like Ryan Kalil, Matt Spanos, Fili Moala, Terrell Thomas, Oscar Lua (one star), Mike "Fat" Williams, Chilo Rachal...Hell, that was 3/5ths of their starting offensive line the past 4 years and their top WR/CB for a solid run at National titles...

 

So riddle me this...If all of these other schools are able to bring in lower rated players and have them develop into NFL draft picks, all conference performers and some all americans. Why can't we...And if we are bringing in those type of players, why did they struggle to develop and play at that level last year...

[Rockne3d]

da coach, thank you for the MUCH more diplomatic approach on your response. It's obvious that you thought out your words first this time.

 

Thank u

[IrishGuy]

So riddle me this...If all of these other schools are able to bring in lower rated players and have them develop into NFL draft picks, all conference performers and some all americans. Why can't we...And if we are bringing in those type of players, why did they struggle to develop and play at that level last year...

 

It is true that a lot of under-rated players exist. There are many many problems with the rating system (hell, not every kid plays in the top division of their sport....and some even play on teams with less than 11 on each side of the ball).

 

.....but, the simple answer is that schools (coaches and coaching staff) are supposed to look at a guy and see if he fits into their system. They look at these guys and decide if they can play now, or develop and play later....it is what evaluation is all about. OSU and USC can afford to bring in a guy that is only going to play a year (maybe 2). OSU and USC can afford to bring in a guy that is likely going to be riding the pine and working out for 3 years.....we can't....at least, we can't do that for more than 1 or 2 spots in each class.

 

CW (and Co.) are evaluating players, and making offers to the ones that they feel will make the biggest splash. When they have to more on to the next guy, they will (plan B). Evaluation is the key. If a guy has an offer from us, it is because the coaching staff saw him playing for us one day. If John Doe from BFE high gets an offer, then I am happy knowing he WILL fit into our system. If John Doe Super Star doesn't get one from us, I am comfortable knowing that there was a reason for it.

[IrishGuy]

And if we are bringing in those type of players, why did they struggle to develop and play at that level last year...

 

This is my BIGGEST knock on our staff. I am VERY concerned for our ability to "coach up" players.

 

IMHO, it is MUCH more difficult to coach up a kid in college than it is in the NFL, and I think CW needs to figure out how to adjust to life as an NCAA coach.....even if that means hiring a new coach for position X, Y, or Z.

[da coach]

da coach, thank you for the MUCH more diplomatic approach on your response. It's obvious that you thought out your words first this time.

 

Thank u

 

 

Any chance it gets me bumped above a sophomore rating... j/k

[ND FANATIC]

Any chance it gets me bumped above a sophomore rating... j/k

 

 

Thats all # of posts driven...

[Rockne3d]

Any chance it gets me bumped above a sophomore rating... j/k

 

Your avatar picture alone should get you that bump.

[miragesmack]

I too get caught up in the star ratings when is comes signing day. But a team stacked with top talent doesn't gaurantee a NC. Look at USC, they really should have won 2-4 more NC's with the talent on that team this decade. I think teams need role players like Da coach is saying, though not sure whether his players are the guys are not. Thats up to the coaching staff. Too many chiefs and not enough indians on a team is bad for moral.

 

I am a UK fan as well, and they've done this on their basketball team forever - make sure their are KY kids on the roster. KY kids get a break from the fans if they underperform, while the McDonald all-americans don't.

[Irishman Part Deaux]

Star ratings have come up numerous times. Give me a 3 star from a big school any day.

 

as far as CW's coaching ability, who knows. Some changes need to come on the Coaching staff (OL for instance). I always turn to Young on the OL. IMHO, I don't think he has developed into the player he should be right now. He is very good, but should be a Jake Long type prospect. And he is NOT.

 

You can bring in as many top recruits as you want. If you cannot coach them up, it does not matter. This year is pivotal in CW's coaching career. With talent alone, ND should win 7 games. With bad coaching we could lose 2 of those.