Jump to content

Offer Pestige......


Guest heismancaliber

Recommended Posts

Guest heismancaliber
Agreed Fighton, well said.

 

Caliber, by that same token, Hall never received an offer from ND, Wood did receive that SC offer no matter how much effort your staff was willing to put in. He choses ND, SC fan saves the lost face by saying player B was more attractive.

Lewis had issues prior to going to SC, perhaps LA was the wrong place for him to begin with. Maybe N. Iowa was a way to get him to focus, something he didn't or couldn't do in LA or at least at SC.

Lambert has a year of eligibilty left, the book hasn't closed on his career at ND yet.....we lose at MSU in 06 w/out him, plain and simple. [/url]

 

These are the posts that spark riots but I'm gonna try and put this in the most polite way possible because it furthers this discussion. An SC offer is the most prestigious offer in college football, plain and simple, so to say (insert school here) didn't offer, really means very little.

 

ND posters across many boards have this impression that USC insiders and posters made up a bogus spinjob to save face when Cierre Wood committed to ND. That simply isn't true. And quite frankly for that matter, why would they need to? The most knowledgeable SC posters have long stated that Hall was better than Wood, before Hall verballed and before anybody had a clue who were among Cierre's leaders.

 

You're right that Whitney Lewis didn't belong in LA, he wanted to go to Florida State but his mom refused to sign the LOI. His heart wasn't in things from the get-go and he showed up very out of shape as a freshman. By the time he turned things around and started to play well, he fell behind academically and never really recovered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 34
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Agreed Fighton, well said.

 

Caliber, by that same token, Hall never received an offer from ND, Wood did receive that SC offer no matter how much effort your staff was willing to put in. He choses ND, SC fan saves the lost face by saying player B was more attractive.

Lewis had issues prior to going to SC, perhaps LA was the wrong place for him to begin with. Maybe N. Iowa was a way to get him to focus, something he didn't or couldn't do in LA or at least at SC.

Lambert has a year of eligibilty left, the book hasn't closed on his career at ND yet.....we lose at MSU in 06 w/out him, plain and simple. [/url]

 

These are the posts that spark riots but I'm gonna try and put this in the most polite way possible because it furthers this discussion. An SC offer is the most prestigious offer in college football, plain and simple, so to say (insert school here) didn't offer, really means very little.

 

I beg to differ Heisman, there was a time not long ago, before Petey came to town, that you couldn't give a SC offer way. I will admit that now SC is among a group of about 5-6 schools that an offer from is above everyone else. I would say that in todays game offers from ND, SC, LSU, OSU, UF, OU and possibly a few others stand out amongst others, but to put SC on top of the mountain is just a smidge pompus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed Fighton, well said.

 

Caliber, by that same token, Hall never received an offer from ND, Wood did receive that SC offer no matter how much effort your staff was willing to put in. He choses ND, SC fan saves the lost face by saying player B was more attractive.

Lewis had issues prior to going to SC, perhaps LA was the wrong place for him to begin with. Maybe N. Iowa was a way to get him to focus, something he didn't or couldn't do in LA or at least at SC.

Lambert has a year of eligibilty left, the book hasn't closed on his career at ND yet.....we lose at MSU in 06 w/out him, plain and simple. [/url]

 

These are the posts that spark riots but I'm gonna try and put this in the most polite way possible because it furthers this discussion. An SC offer is the most prestigious offer in college football, plain and simple, so to say (insert school here) didn't offer, really means very little.

 

I beg to differ Heisman, there was a time not long ago, before Petey came to town, that you couldn't give a SC offer way. I will admit that now SC is among a group of about 5-6 schools that an offer from is above everyone else. I would say that in todays game offers from ND, SC, LSU, OSU, UF, OU and possibly a few others stand out amongst others, but to put SC on top of the mountain is just a smidge pompus.

Yeah, those six are pretty much the best offers... don't forget UT, they're up there too... Yeah, you just can't really put any one school up at the top, since there is likely to be at least several schools that are at their level as well...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

An SC offer is the most prestigious offer in college football, plain and simple, so to say (insert school here) didn't offer, really means very little.

 

ND posters across many boards have this impression that USC insiders and posters made up a bogus spinjob to save face when Cierre Wood committed to ND. That simply isn't true. And quite frankly for that matter, why would they need to?

 

Caliber, that statement resulted in nothing but laughter to be honest. Fanatic is right, that was a straight up pompous statement that I think you should rethink when factoring the number of guys that have chosen not only ND, but many other schools instead of SC. Getting an SC offer is prestigous, no doubt. Would you argue that an ND offer isn't? Texas? UF? You've lost recruits to each of these schools recently. Receiving an SC offer doesn't always result in a visit to south central much less a commitment as a Trojan. Get over yourself.

Irish fans have the impression of SC spin jobs because we hear it every year. Clausen-Corp. Crist-Barkley. Wood-Hall. It's the same banter year in and out by a number of SC guys. It's refreshing getting some acknowledgment that we got a commitment from a guy w/out SC handing them to us. If you look back a number of posts you'll see that I gave you and your staff some props for getting Hall. You might try some humility sometime, your jealousy of our staff's efforts are really unappealing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest heismancaliber

Fantatic, it doesn't matter what SC was before Carroll was coach, just like I think ND fans could care less how ND was seen under Willingham, we're dealing with the present and over the last 5 years, USC is the dominant recruiting team in the nation above all other schools, the rankings don't lie.

 

I would argue that at the moment, an ND offer isn't among the most prestigious. Prestigious academically? You bet. However, you are only as good as the results on the field say, and at the moment ND is a 3-9 team. Granted they are a 3-9 team who recruit their tails off, plus ND will always have that special "It" factor that makes them ND, but right now I wouldn't label an ND offer as prestigious as a USC offer.

 

UF is a prestigious football school who offers everyone, so I wouldn't say that offer is prestigious simply due to the overwhelming amount of recruits Urban offers, I'll save the debate for "committable offers" for another time. Just because you lose a recruit to a school doesn't mean anything. Colorado beat out everyone for Darrell Scott, Southern Miss beat out everyone for DeAndre Brown. Nobody bats 1,000 in recruiting.

 

Clausen-Corp: Clausen was the best QB in the class, SC picks up Corp as a backup option after being rejected, Corp blossoms into a stud his senior year. Where is the spin with that? Some posters said they think Corp is better than Clausen. They are entitled to their opinion. The only spin came from a segment of idiot SC fans who (falsely) tried to assert that SC wanted Corp more or wanted Corp equally as much as Clausen

 

Crist-Barkley: I'll let all of Barkley's accolades from last season do the talking on this one.

 

Wood-Hall: has already been discussed.

 

I don't get where the jealousy remark comes from

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well HC, it was nice to see you take a wholistic look at the ND program and go back 1 whole season. You are correct we were 3-9 and yet still pulled in a top 3 recruiting class - I guess your right an offer from ND doesn't mean much.

Anyway, you post as a true west coast guy. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the rest of the country doesn't hold USC in as high a regard as you do. You can't honestly believe, generally speaking, that a kid in Texas, Nebraska, Oklahoma cares about an offer from USC. I can tell you right now that kids in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania could care less about getting one and I'm sure the same holds true for Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and Louisiana.

I understand that SC does pull kids out of these places, but to think that kids are sitting around waiting for SC to offer is a little short-sighted. I can't speak for kids out on the west coast, I would guess that an offer from SC does carry alot of weight out there, but in Ohio - not so much. SC may get visitor, just because its a nice place to go during the winter, but to think that you can get kids from anywhere in the country just because your SC - I just don't see it.

In your recruiting classes for 07, 08 and 09 SC has a grand total of 5 kids out of 47 recruits from east of the Mississippi River - I am wondering where your getting your justification for making such a statement because I just don't see it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Shamrock83

What really says something is that we may be able to pull in a more diverse group across the nation to come play football in Indiana rather than sunny southern California.... and no these aren't second rate players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fantatic, it doesn't matter what SC was before Carroll was coach, just like I think ND fans could care less how ND was seen under Willingham, we're dealing with the present and over the last 5 years, USC is the dominant recruiting team in the nation above all other schools, the rankings don't lie.

 

I would argue that at the moment, an ND offer isn't among the most prestigious. Prestigious academically? You bet. However, you are only as good as the results on the field say, and at the moment ND is a 3-9 team. Granted they are a 3-9 team who recruit their tails off, plus ND will always have that special "It" factor that makes them ND, but right now I wouldn't label an ND offer as prestigious as a USC offer.

 

i think your comment is mostly on the mark but i think you, as to be somewhat expected, slightly over-rate a SC offer and slightly under-rate an ND offer.

 

but there's no doubt, as well, that an offer from LSU, UT and OSU are right there with SC and ND gets there as well by virtue of CW's still good rep among kids because (almost solely as this point) of his many super bowl rings AND the "mystique" of ND and, to a lesser extent, their successful recruiting efforts of the last 3 years.

 

BUT, having said all that, i do agree that SC is tops at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think limiting the discussion to performance on the field, currently, and academic prestige isn't the best measure. You have to account for tradition, history, women, campus life, coaching staff, ability to get to the next level, alumni network, fan base, "incentives" (we won't discuss those), degree choices, party atmosphere. What makes a school's offer prestigious isn't limited to two factors. Look at the recruiting classes we have been getting and what the players cite as important factors in their decisions. They cite history, academics, Weis & Staff, potential, fan base. Just the same, Shawn Cody cited women, sunny socal, Petey, and USC's reputation as a traditional power.

 

ND's offer weren't prestigious when Ty was here, but their offer has nearly the same prestige, now, that it had under Lou. The current players see the program not as it was under Davie or Ty, but under what it once was and see the ability to bring it back to that. They ASSOCIATE themselves with THAT, not the crappiness of late. Last year was a growing pain, purely and simply. If it becomes a trend, however, ND's prestige will disappear, again. Right now, though, we are only missing W's to be back to the old days. Brady & Co had nearly gotten us back. Now, add consistency with the old guard gone and you will think you were watching the rocket, bettis, and watters all over again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing about this debate is the term "prestige".

 

Some think of the word "prestige" and equate it to current events. If thats the case, then Florida, LSU, Ohio State, USC, and Texas all figure in there, probably Oklahoma too. 2nd tier, you think of Michigan, Georgia, Tennessee, Va Tech, guys like them. A year ago, you throw ND in there too, but now there is reason to doubt whether they're still on the rise.

 

Some think of the word "prestige" and think of prestige in a broader sense, in a long term. In that regard, Notre Dame is still near the top of the list - national championships, winning percentage, the "Play like a Champion" sign, the Heisman winners, etc that lots of people still eat up. Some schools that wouldn't qualify by the current events standard suddenly have a brand name cache to them - Miami, Penn State, Nebraska. Sure, they haven't done a whole lot thats noteworthy lately, but certain kids still wet themselves when they're offered a scholarship to Miami's wrecking crew, to be a Blackshirt at Nebraska, to go to "Linebacker U" with Joe Pa.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the thing here, though, Calves, is the prestige of an offer in a kid's hands, today. In that context, I think there is a middle ground between your two definitions. It depends on the way a program is sold. Ty didn't sell, so I assume an offer from us wasn't that prestigious. Davie could recruit, but you could argue that the lack of success was a chink in our armor. Today, I think our offer is as prestigious as it has ever been and on the way up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest SirJohn

To toss in my 2 cents here, I am reading more and more recruits are talking about life after football (Wise Kids) the degree and "prestige" ala Notre Dame degree and life support system with the Alumni base we have. Connections are every thing in this world 2008 in A tight job market.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest heismancaliber
I think the thing here, though, Calves, is the prestige of an offer in a kid's hands, today. In that context, I think there is a middle ground between your two definitions. It depends on the way a program is sold. Ty didn't sell, so I assume an offer from us wasn't that prestigious. Davie could recruit, but you could argue that the lack of success was a chink in our armor. Today, I think our offer is as prestigious as it has ever been and on the way up.

 

Weis does sell ND better than any coach since Holtz, there is no disputing that. But your description of Davie sounds almost identical to Weis, he can recruit but the on-field success isn't there yet, and that lack of success is what keeps ND from being considered in the upper tier of prestigious offers in my eyes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest SirJohn

I disagree heismen you go back to davie's first year he was too busy and involved with assbling a staff and ignored recruitin. ( I read that recently but lost the link) so bear with me on that. IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the thing here, though, Calves, is the prestige of an offer in a kid's hands, today. In that context, I think there is a middle ground between your two definitions. It depends on the way a program is sold. Ty didn't sell, so I assume an offer from us wasn't that prestigious. Davie could recruit, but you could argue that the lack of success was a chink in our armor. Today, I think our offer is as prestigious as it has ever been and on the way up.

 

Weis does sell ND better than any coach since Holtz, there is no disputing that. But your description of Davie sounds almost identical to Weis, he can recruit but the on-field success isn't there yet, and that lack of success is what keeps ND from being considered in the upper tier of prestigious offers in my eyes.

 

but heisman, and i touched on this is my earlier reply to your post, CW's success on the field in the NFL still holds a HIGH amount a cache with players, esp. offensive ones. that still holds even now after a 3-9 season. now, if CW doesn't contend for a title in 3 years, well, we all know what will happen then...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed Fighton, well said.

 

Caliber, by that same token, Hall never received an offer from ND, Wood did receive that SC offer no matter how much effort your staff was willing to put in. He choses ND, SC fan saves the lost face by saying player B was more attractive.

Lewis had issues prior to going to SC, perhaps LA was the wrong place for him to begin with. Maybe N. Iowa was a way to get him to focus, something he didn't or couldn't do in LA or at least at SC.

Lambert has a year of eligibilty left, the book hasn't closed on his career at ND yet.....we lose at MSU in 06 w/out him, plain and simple. [/url]

 

These are the posts that spark riots but I'm gonna try and put this in the most polite way possible because it furthers this discussion. An SC offer is the most prestigious offer in college football, plain and simple, so to say (insert school here) didn't offer, really means very little.

 

I beg to differ Heisman, there was a time not long ago, before Petey came to town, that you couldn't give a SC offer way. I will admit that now SC is among a group of about 5-6 schools that an offer from is above everyone else. I would say that in todays game offers from ND, SC, LSU, OSU, UF, OU and possibly a few others stand out amongst others, but to put SC on top of the mountain is just a smidge pompus.

Just a smidge pompus?

That's being kind ND! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing that differentiates Davie and Weis is that you could see Davies teams continally decline despite the talent he had. Weis, however, took no talent and did well with it. Last year was an anomoly that won't ever happen under Weis again. I would put my my life, my firstborn's life, and my fiance's life on it. Also, a good point is that Weis' success in the NFL is a huge selling point that I guarantee he uses against Pete. What did Pete do in the NFL? I bet CW uses that against him. To say we aren't in the upper eschelon of football is pretty bold. Would you Alabama isn't? Maybe they are down, but Alabama is upper eschelon the same way ND is. Secondly, football is all about money and playing on national tv day in and day out. If you go by that, we are still one of the best. Nobody travels like us or drives local economies like us, so we will still keep getting bowls we meritoriously don't deserve to be in, but financially deserve to be in. We will, therefore, keep getting outplayed because we have such loyal fan support and keep getting put in bowls with teams that are better than us.

 

Also, Petey hasn't shown that he can live without Norm, yet. He has one real national title, a loss to TX, and LSU won the title the other year. Considering all the talent Pete has, shouldn't he have a dynasty the way New England does? It seems he and Mack Brown are wasting a lot of talent to only have 1 national title each, but have Top 5 recruiting classes year in and year out.

 

To discount ND's prestige is showing a limited respect for college football as a whole. It is the same as disrespecting Indiana in basketball. What has Indiana really done lately? Nothing... But, I still wouldn't say they aren't prestigious...just give them the right coach.

 

When Pete leaves and SC falls apart, which will happen...it may not be for another decade, but SC will take a downturn the same hard and fast way Miami, FSU, and Alabama did, dont get mad when we start making the same accusations and misinformed assumptions about your program. We won't, because I think ND's class is above that, but just remember: What goes around comes around. You won't always be good, but what people will remember is how you acted when you were good...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

dont get mad when we start making the same accusations and misinformed assumptions about your program. We won't, because I think ND's class is above that, but just remember: What goes around comes around. You won't always be good, but what people will remember is how you acted when you were good...

 

Oh, don't say that!

 

I've seen some ND fans "pompousness" (is that a word? LOL) make HC's look like downright humility! Just surf over there at NDN!

 

Anyway, agree with everything else wave! :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nobody travels like us or drives local economies like us, so we will still keep getting bowls we meritoriously don't deserve to be in, but financially deserve to be in. We will, therefore, keep getting outplayed because we have such loyal fan support and keep getting put in bowls with teams that are better than us.

 

I agree with all of what you said wave except the comment about travelling. We don't go to those bowls because we travel well, we go to those bowls because of the national audience we draw. Notre Dame is a draw whether you hope to see us win or lose.

 

As far as travelling goes, there are a number of teams who easily out travel ND, Tennessee and Ohio State quickly come to mind. Just look at the Fiesta Bowl a couple of years back. There were easily more OSU fans attending that game than ND fans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...