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With everything that I've seen being uncovered, they should be worried.

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Funny how when Bush was winning for them, his parents were the salt of the earth and now that they may be getting in hot water, they are calling them cheaters, stupid and greedy!!

If you read downt the SC comments a bit, there is a response by one poster called Cactus Dave that is very well thought out. It talks about the past precedneces for the NCAA to use as guidance in making a decision. If I read it correctly, the NCAA views the Player/Booster and Player/Agent violations very differently.

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The player/booster situation would likely fall under the "institutional control" moniker as the booster is viewed as having an affiliation with the university.

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With the player/agent scenario, that is not the case. The example that was used was Charles Woodson at Michigan as the right comparison for the situation. I recommend you read this response as it does provide some interesting thoughts.

If you read downt the SC comments a bit, there is a response by one poster called Cactus Dave that is very well thought out. It talks about the past precedneces for the NCAA to use as guidance in making a decision. If I read it correctly, the NCAA views the Player/Booster and Player/Agent violations very differently.

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The player/booster situation would likely fall under the "institutional control" moniker as the booster is viewed as having an affiliation with the university.

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With the player/agent scenario, that is not the case. The example that was used was Charles Woodson at Michigan as the right comparison for the situation. I recommend you read this response as it does provide some interesting thoughts.

Exactly. This is why SC and Petey are not worried. They know precisely how to play this game. I bet you Bush was not the only one either. The NCAA needs to change the rules because teams like SC and their coaching staff have found a loophole. Ive heard that Florida knows how to play this game as well.

If you read downt the SC comments a bit, there is a response by one poster called Cactus Dave that is very well thought out. It talks about the past precedneces for the NCAA to use as guidance in making a decision. If I read it correctly, the NCAA views the Player/Booster and Player/Agent violations very differently.

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The player/booster situation would likely fall under the "institutional control" moniker as the booster is viewed as having an affiliation with the university.

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With the player/agent scenario, that is not the case. The example that was used was Charles Woodson at Michigan as the right comparison for the situation. I recommend you read this response as it does provide some interesting thoughts.

Exactly. This is why SC and Petey are not worried. They know precisely how to play this game. I bet you Bush was not the only one either. The NCAA needs to change the rules because teams like SC and their coaching staff have found a loophole. Ive heard that Florida knows how to play this game as well.

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I just read the thread, and the longwinded poster is quite delusional. He whiffs on a few key facts that have already been stated.

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1) He compares Bush to Dayne, yet Dayne was never declared ineligible and his team forced to forfeit games. If the NCAA forces USC to do this, the DAC has already went on record saying they will strongly consider pulling Reggie's Heisman.

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2) He lists a statue of limitations on the forfeits, but neglects to note that the investigation began before the statue would have expired. The NCAA will probably bend the rules to get USC if need be.

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3) He claims no link to the school. However, numerous NCAA sites state that a booster:

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* Participate in or have been a member of a Booster club or any other organization that promotes the school's intercollegiate athletic program.

* Make or have made financial contributions to any of the school Athletic programs or to the Athletic department.

* Are assisting or have been requested (by the Athletic staff) to assist in the recruitment of prospects.

* Provide or help arrange for benefits to enrolled student-athletes or their families; such as summer or vacation employment for school athletes.

* Have been involved in promoting the school's Athletics in any way.

* Are the parent of an enrolled student-athlete.

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I believe one of the people in question had Bush working as a summer intern, therefore the school had knowledge of the relationship. Can't claim you didn't know when you approved the internship in the first place.

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The only way USC gets out of this lightly is if the NCAA sticks their head in the sand....otherwise, this should be one of their easiest cases.

Welcome to DD JayP

I was going to refrain from commenting until the book actually hits the shelves but I just couldn't resist... :)

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First off, assuming that Bush and/or his family did take improper benefits (which the NCAA hasnt even established), this situation is VERY similar to that of Charles Woodson. Both were given by a sports agent in an effort to get the player as a client. While the NCAA did find that Woodson received improper benefits, they did not find evidence that the school knew or should have known, and therefore, the school was not punished. The same applies to USC - there is no evidence that SC knew or should have known that Bush was receiving improper benefits. According to the book, the only evidence that SC could have known about the benefits are:

1. One of the SC coaches was in San Diego during the same time that Reggie Bush was staying in a hotel room that was being charged to an agent's credit card.

2. Reggie Bush's family traveled to Hawaii for the Hawaii game 2005.

3. Reggie Bush was driving around a $17,000 car at SC.

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As I've tried to explain before, this deals w/ an Agent, NOT a Booster. The NCAA distinguishes between the two. That is why Oklahoma got in trouble (booster), why Alabama back in the day got in trouble (Booster), why Michigan didn't get into trouble (agent). The Booster HELPS the school because it gives additional incentives / amenities that encourages a player to go or stay at a school. The AGENT does not help the school because it encourages the player to LEAVE EARLY. This guy, Lloyd Lake, was an Agent trying to create a new sports agency (New Era Sports) and was trying to get Bush as a client.

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This ongoing investigation has been going on for 2 years. Knowledgeable SC fans were worried when it first came out - at this point, most are not worried. Nothing has changed. This AUTHOR (whom I'm assuming most of you find as a scumbag) is writing a book based on the account of one person, Lloyd Lake. Lloyd Lake is a convicted felon and WAS PAID by the author for the story. The story is being corroborated by "outside sources" = Lake's mother, sister, and brother-in-law. The evidence isn't even printed in the book. It is posted on an internet website which can easily be taken down or altered (does any of this sound suspicious to anyone?).

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I'm not denying that Bush took money from these guys. He probably did, and it's an unfortunate example of the reality that superstar athletes from very poor families are faced with. However, did SC know? Based on the evidence presented so far in this extremely sketchy book in itself, it seems highly unlikely.

Wasn't there a taped conversation between Lake and Bush talking about covering up the money issue when Pete asked? I thought I had heard this somewhere. Also, when your star player suddenly has a pimped out car, doesn't it make you wonder as a head coach?

I was going to refrain from commenting until the book actually hits the shelves but I just couldn't resist... :)

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3. Reggie Bush was driving around a $17,000 car at SC.

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That seems like a pretty obvious reason to inverstigate the situation. If one of Coach Weis's poorer players shows up with a nice new auto, I would hope he would call in the PI. Otherwise, I would consider it a blatant example of intentionally turning a blind eye to the matter.

  • Author
I was going to refrain from commenting until the book actually hits the shelves but I just couldn't resist... :)

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First off, assuming that Bush and/or his family did take improper benefits (which the NCAA hasnt even established), this situation is VERY similar to that of Charles Woodson. Both were given by a sports agent in an effort to get the player as a client. While the NCAA did find that Woodson received improper benefits, they did not find evidence that the school knew or should have known, and therefore, the school was not punished. The same applies to USC - there is no evidence that SC knew or should have known that Bush was receiving improper benefits. According to the book, the only evidence that SC could have known about the benefits are:1. One of the SC coaches was in San Diego during the same time that Reggie Bush was staying in a hotel room that was being charged to an agent's credit card.

2. Reggie Bush's family traveled to Hawaii for the Hawaii game 2005.

3. Reggie Bush was driving around a $17,000 car at SC.

As I've tried to explain before, this deals w/ an Agent, NOT a Booster. The NCAA distinguishes between the two. That is why Oklahoma got in trouble (booster), why Alabama back in the day got in trouble (Booster), why Michigan didn't get into trouble (agent). The Booster HELPS the school because it gives additional incentives / amenities that encourages a player to go or stay at a school. The AGENT does not help the school because it encourages the player to LEAVE EARLY. This guy, Lloyd Lake, was an Agent trying to create a new sports agency (New Era Sports) and was trying to get Bush as a client.

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This ongoing investigation has been going on for 2 years. Knowledgeable SC fans were worried when it first came out - at this point, most are not worried. Nothing has changed. This AUTHOR (whom I'm assuming most of you find as a scumbag) is writing a book based on the account of one person, Lloyd Lake. Lloyd Lake is a convicted felon and WAS PAID by the author for the story. The story is being corroborated by "outside sources" = Lake's mother, sister, and brother-in-law. The evidence isn't even printed in the book. It is posted on an internet website which can easily be taken down or altered (does any of this sound suspicious to anyone?).

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I'm not denying that Bush took money from these guys. He probably did, and it's an unfortunate example of the reality that superstar athletes from very poor families are faced with. However, did SC know? Based on the evidence presented so far in this extremely sketchy book in itself, it seems highly unlikely.

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Wow! Unfortunate example indeed.

First off, if you think a $17,000 car is going to stand out at USC, then you have clearly never been around the campus. Either way, I don't think Bush even had the car at SC b/c he lived on campus. I know that he biked from his dorm to practice every day.

First off, if you think a $17,000 car is going to stand out at USC, then you have clearly never been around the campus. Either way, I don't think Bush even had the car at SC b/c he lived on campus. I know that he biked from his dorm to practice every day.

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So you're telling me this poverty-stricken kid gets a new car and nobody notices? Or are you telling me all the ballplayers there get new cars?

Fighton...I was looking forward to your take on this because you seem to have a good handle on what's going on inside the enemy compound.

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The most unnerving part of your whole post to me was that it was all about how SC can get away with it. If half of the things are true, then SC and the coaching staff should get the hammer thrown at them because they have no idea what's going on in their program. And yes, it IS their job.

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Somewhere along the line this has turned into "What can we get away with legally" and not "what is right for college football".

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I'm not speaking from a perch here either...we both know this goes on everywhere.

Fighton...I was looking forward to your take on this because you seem to have a good handle on what's going on inside the enemy compound.

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The most unnerving part of your whole post to me was that it was all about how SC can get away with it. If half of the things are true, then SC and the coaching staff should get the hammer thrown at them because they have no idea what's going on in their program. And yes, it IS their job.

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Somewhere along the line this has turned into "What can we get away with legally" and not "what is right for college football".

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I'm not speaking from a perch here either...we both know this goes on everywhere.

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I think a lot of you guys are misinterpreting my post. The 3 pieces of "evidence" that SC could/should have known about the benefits are based on what the BOOK states. IF PEOPLE BELIEVE THE BOOK TO BE TRUE, then these people are saying that Bush owning a $17,000 car, his family traveling to Hawaii for a game, etc. is enough proof for USC to know about the improper benefits. That is a stretch any way you look at it. There are privacy laws (SC has no idea how rich/poor the players are - they may make assumptions based on visiting a player's house on an in-home visit). Even if they were suspicious, as one poster here pointed out there's allegedly a tape of how Bush and Lake would explain/cover up the benefits if Pete Carroll became suspicious and asked about it. Any way you think about it, there are a LOT of assumptions that need to be made in order for one to think that the NCAA should punish SC for knowing about the benefits, ASSUMING that the evidence cited in the book is true.

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Again, this entire book is based on the account of a convicted felon who was PAID by the author for his story. Does that raise any issues of credibility? Do you think he had any incentive to embellish the story, or maybe even to completely make it up? I'm actually really shocked at how many ND fans are willing to accept this story as true considering the author.

I'm not totally convinced yet of all the facts, but I do believe they came out before this book. They're also taped conversations which would eliminate the "tainted-convict angle". I also think that when your enemy/rival, has pulled a complete 180 since the 90's reguarding talent and wins, and evidence comes out about untold benefits, yeah we're going to be supportive. Even if lucifer wrote this book, I just might believe it! :lol:

The fact is Bu$h got paid........ nothing will happen to $c... And yeah a 17,000 thousand dollar car doesn't sound like much but when you are from a poor family it is ALOT.

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Fighton you are a perfect sc fan..... You Dont Care If They Cheat. As long as it doesnt affect sc

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