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I am a little confused, or alot of other people are, on the subject of redshirting. It has always been my understanding that ND does not redshirt, unless for medical reasons. I thought their policy was that you have 4 yrs to complete the 4 yrs of eligibility the NCAA gives a player. There is alot of posts saying that Crist and some of the OL should redshirt to save a yr of eligibility and add some weight in the OL case, but I don't think they can. Am I confused on this issue ?

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I understand that a player can get a 5th yr if they have another yr of eligibility, have graduated, applied and been accepted to grad school and are invited back by the coaching staff but none of this is the result of redshirting, just not playing one of your 4 yrs.

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yeah, so if they withhold someone from action, it is pretty much redshirting..

because they can use them for the 5th year if they want

isn't that the same thing really. Redshirting is just not playing someone right, which allows them to play a year later. maybe i'm confused...

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My understanding is that a player gets 5 yrs to complete 4 yrs of eligibility - per the NCAA. But at ND they have only 4 yrs to complete 4 yrs of eligibility because to play the "5th yr" they have to be graduated and admitted to grad school.

I can't remember a case that we had a 5th yr senior that was still not graduated. There are some programs out their that reshirt their entire freshman class so they have the experience of 15+ 5th seniors - but thos kids are not necessarily graduated.

Yet another example of the Notre Dame administration thinking their shit doesn't stink. You're absolutely right, it really is red-shirting, ND just doesn't like to call it that. Although, players must "apply" for a fifth year of eligibility and, during that year, must take graduate level courses. Absolutely ridiculous.

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How long until ND stops trying to beat the USCs and Michigans of the world with "one hand tied behind their back?"

Basically ND doesnt 'officially' redshirt its players, but if you dont play your first year, you still can play 4 more years, but you need to have the grades to do it.

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Its a stupid rule imo, but has anyone not been able to play a 5th season because of it?

ndmike, that is what makes ND well ND. It's a college not friggin football factory. A place of learning. Damn i thought ND fans would understand that.

Yet another example of the Notre Dame administration thinking their shit doesn't stink. You're absolutely right, it really is red-shirting, ND just doesn't like to call it that. Although, players must "apply" for a fifth year of eligibility and, during that year, must take graduate level courses. Absolutely ridiculous.

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How long until ND stops trying to beat the USCs and Michigans of the world with "one hand tied behind their back?"

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Great post

I think it is a bit different then what has been characterized above. Here is my take on it. Like other schools, there are two things to consider, academic requirement and football eligibility.

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At most schools when a person redshirts, they get extra time time to graduate. A redshirt for any reason, allows the student to extend the time it takes them to get their bachelor degree, thus allowing them to lessen their class load.

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At ND, it is a requirement that you complete your degree in 4 years regardless of how much football eligibility you have remaining. If you have football eligibility remaining after you have completed your bachelor degree, you can APPLY to come back and play for another year. This application is essentially an application to graduate school. So, all "5th years" already have their bachelors and are managing a master's courseload. This is the major distinction between ND and other schools and it is why we shy away from the term redshirt. In my opinion it is better to talk about a 5th year of eligibily then using the term redshirt with ND.

It's not redshirting, never has, never will be. Though the end result may be that a player has an extra year of elgibility, it doesn't mean that ND will allow him to return for the 5th year. That is up to the coaches and ND to accept him for a graduate school.

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To try to change ND to become like USC or UM is really not worth responding to...it's like saying God should be more like the devil :evil:

ndmike, that is what makes ND well ND. It's a college not friggin football factory. A place of learning. Damn i thought ND fans would understand that.

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That's all well and good - when you're winning. But after 6 consecutive losses to USC, 5 of which were of the blowout variety, nobody gives a damn.

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So I guess by my understanding of "redshirting", ND does not redshirt.

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The way we get a player to be a 5th year is have them graduate and be accepted to grad school in addition to an invite from the coaching staff.

ndmike, that is what makes ND well ND. It's a college not friggin football factory. A place of learning. Damn i thought ND fans would understand that.

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That's all well and good - when you're winning. But after 6 consecutive losses to USC, 5 of which were of the blowout variety, nobody gives a damn.

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I totally disagree with your statement. I give a damn about both things. I don't want ND to change their standards. I believe we can and will be elite in football and do it in the right way.

ndmike...what is your deal buddy? do you seriously want notre dame to change their ways to be more like U$C and scUM just to win a game or two? I would rather continue what we have always done and simply get quality guys that can graduate in four years, AND beat the piss out of U$C and scUM on the field.

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Being Notre Dame fans, we all should know, it is NOT as easy to rebuild as other football factories, because of our academic requirements. But once we get the right pieces put together look out baby! THAT is what makes ND special...[/img]

My "deal" is that I don't believe the Notre Dame model can be strictly followed and, at the same time, produce championship calliber football seasons in this day and age. The landscape has totally changed. Notre Dame cannot expect to compete with the big-time programs when they cannot recruit from the same talent pool.

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I am not saying that ND needs to sell its soul in order to compete, but some major changes are necessary:

-allow for redshirts (and call them redshirts). If the player doesn't want to take graduate level classes during his fifth year, so be it!

-allow for transfers. Currently, ND needs to accept the athlete as a student first and foremost. This is insane. Transfers should be held to the same, relatively low admissions standards as incoming freshmen football players. Transfers are becoming a more prominent reality in this day and age. If ND is going to suffer from this culture (Carufel, Jones, and Frazier), they should certainly be able to benefit as well.

-No more turning away quality kids like J Baldwin, M Knox, & K Tate simply because of test scores. If they like ND and what it offers enough to retake pain-in-the-ass tests like the ACT, then they are obviously pretty good kids and worthy of a shot ant ND.

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Otherwise, take USC off the schedule because they are playing an entirely different game than ND and the proof, as they say, is in the pudding.

Sorry, don't agree, and its never gonna happen b/c ND will be successful without the changes you suggest. USC has only been successful due to recruiting and coaching (if not, then why did they lose for a decade to ND), and ND is now competing for the best players year in and year out.

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The results will come soon enough...by the way if your arguments were true, then don't you think CW would be making them to ND loud and clear?

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