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Is it odd that I still "buy" Charlie?


ColinKSU

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I was reading his latest presser and, I dunno...Despite the 1-6 start, despite the epically bad offense, despite the big losses...I still am apt to "buy" what he's selling.

 

Either he's a great salesman or he really does have a grip on this thing. I don't know. When Charlie talks, I just kinda believe what he's saying, despite the circumstances around what he's saying.

 

Did what I just said make sense to anyone? I don't know if I explained that well enough. Just something that went through my head because, like...When Lionel would talk during his pressers, I just could tell he had no clue what the hell was going on and he was in over his head. Charlie either seems like he has it under control or is one hell of a BS'er.

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I get what you're saying and I'm waiting in line behind you, i.e., I'm still buying what he's selling. I guess we do have two years evidence of good ball though so nobody's pointing and laughing at us yet. If we still had Rick Minter and no defensive recruiting I'm sure I'd have one leg out the line already.

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I was reading his latest presser and, I dunno...Despite the 1-6 start, despite the epically bad offense, despite the big losses...I still am apt to "buy" what he's selling.

 

Either he's a great salesman or he really does have a grip on this thing. I don't know. When Charlie talks, I just kinda believe what he's saying, despite the circumstances around what he's saying.

 

Did what I just said make sense to anyone? I don't know if I explained that well enough. Just something that went through my head because, like...When Lionel would talk during his pressers, I just could tell he had no clue what the hell was going on and he was in over his head. Charlie either seems like he has it under control or is one hell of a BS'er.

 

well, i agree with you whole-heartedly and i too am more than encouraged. unlike some on here, seemingly, i REMEMBER in GRAPHIC detail the utter clueless-ness that seem to permeate ND's football program during the davingham era. and the hopelessness i felt about the program. CW if for NO OTHER reason deserves our backing because he has shown a willingness to make change ( see c. brown ) AND he's recruited constantly better than anyone since holtz. those are facts. undeniable.

 

so, as long as that continues, and as i see the huge amount of playing time these under-classmen are getting, i am feeling confident in ND's future with CW at the helm.

 

and this is not even to mention how much more CW GETS ND than davingham did. and how holtz and ara seem to love CW. and many alumni, etc.

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Guest SirJohn

We are just losing. Re-read the Presser where Weis reached out and got an experty to come in to speak to his people. I agree with the above all ty's coaches either didn't care or were clueles. Weis seek answers to any problems from any re source. That's what i would be doing if I were helpless with a problem my daughters had. I wouldn't sit on my butt I would reach out for help. I am the big Daddy he is HC but neither of us knows all the answers so reach out.

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im not sure i totally buy into Weis as much as i did the last 2 winning seasons. im not saying he should be out, i am behind him and think hes doing a good job for the future.

one of the things that sticks out to me was what he said early into the season, having to hit harder and be tougher in practice. shouldnt they have been allready hitting hard in practice? into the season a team shouldnt have to be going back to the basics from spring practice, thats what pre season practice is for, to make the team ready for the season. it sounded as if ND wasnt properly prepared for the toughness of the season. isnt that one of the main purposes of the head coach, to have the team ready for the season :?

maybe he didnt want to be so hard hitting with so many of the talented young players on the team?

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Guest SirJohn

i just meant he has reached out about as far as any human being can do so. If he had no answer he sought out experts. That to me is important.

 

Many times in life I had no answers and went to priest, counselors or experts in fields. I admit it didn;t always take but I was up at the plate swinging for my life and family.

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I was reading his latest presser and, I dunno...Despite the 1-6 start, despite the epically bad offense, despite the big losses...I still am apt to "buy" what he's selling.

 

Either he's a great salesman or he really does have a grip on this thing. I don't know. When Charlie talks, I just kinda believe what he's saying, despite the circumstances around what he's saying.

 

Did what I just said make sense to anyone? I don't know if I explained that well enough. Just something that went through my head because, like...When Lionel would talk during his pressers, I just could tell he had no clue what the hell was going on and he was in over his head. Charlie either seems like he has it under control or is one hell of a BS'er.

 

well, i agree with you whole-heartedly and i too am more than encouraged. unlike some on here, seemingly, i REMEMBER in GRAPHIC detail the utter clueless-ness that seem to permeate ND's football program during the davingham era. and the hopelessness i felt about the program. CW if for NO OTHER reason deserves our backing because he has shown a willingness to make change ( see c. brown ) AND he's recruited constantly better than anyone since holtz. those are facts. undeniable.

 

so, as long as that continues, and as i see the huge amount of playing time these under-classmen are getting, i am feeling confident in ND's future with CW at the helm.

 

and this is not even to mention how much more CW GETS ND than davingham did. and how holtz and ara seem to love CW. and many alumni, etc.

 

I have to infer that I am part of the "some on this board" because I'm not known as being overly optomistic. The thing that concerns me about CW is that he genuinly comes across as not knowing how to correct this problem. He's tried a couple techniques that have led to transfers and losses. I also don't think he is a very good motivator. That being said, as you pointed out, he has been recruiting well and with talent back on the field I truly think that this ship will turn around. For now, this team looks terrible athletically and fundamentally. That will never be acceptable in my book no matter what the excuse. Doesn't mean I'm bailing on the team. Hell, I will have spent upwards of $2.000 of my own hard earned money to follow them around this year and cheer loudly for them. But, that doesn't mean I have to church up how bad we are. Staying positive hasn't really turned out very well for us.

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Guest irishrick

charlie is the boss , the only question i have is sometimes i feel that he thinks he is in the NFL with these young kids , i agree sometimes you have to tear down to build up , iam just worried about a few players leaving the program , will this hurt the comits in the future? i feel that if he was a little more of a peoples coach he would have gotten more out of this team , he is playing a lot of players this year as opposed to last year, but i think he has learned that over the past several weeks , and i think he is doing a much better job of being the HEAD COACH, to me there is a lot of difference in being the off cord of the pats and the head coach of the irish , i think his best years will be the next three. what say you? go irish :)

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Guys. Notre Dame is a dream job for football coaches. I would call it very naive or uninformed to imply that Davie or Willingham didn't care about winning. I just think they didn't apply themselves in a manner in which Notre Dame and it's fans were accustomed. I think Weis cares and feels horrible that we are losing, I just think it takes time to switch from the college game to the pro game and vice versa. Look at Spurrier.

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I was reading his latest presser and, I dunno...Despite the 1-6 start, despite the epically bad offense, despite the big losses...I still am apt to "buy" what he's selling.

 

Either he's a great salesman or he really does have a grip on this thing. I don't know. When Charlie talks, I just kinda believe what he's saying, despite the circumstances around what he's saying.

 

Did what I just said make sense to anyone? I don't know if I explained that well enough. Just something that went through my head because, like...When Lionel would talk during his pressers, I just could tell he had no clue what the hell was going on and he was in over his head. Charlie either seems like he has it under control or is one hell of a BS'er.

 

For reasons already mentioned here...I too am in the line to buy what Coach Weis is selling. But with this said, I also hear what domeanddomer is saying. There is nothing wrong with feeling unsure or questioning what is happening. This does not make us any less a fan for doing so. In fact, a true fan has this right.

 

But I am one of the more optimistic members here, I can't help myself. No matter how fustrated I get on Saturday's...I will always see a silver lining before the night is through.

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Guest sorin95

you can say what you want, but the bottom line is.... the jury is still out on weis until the END of the 2008 season. if at that time ND somehow looks similar to how they look now... his head can be called for then.

 

until then we all have to grin n bear this...

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I have to infer that I am part of the "some on this board" because I'm not known as being overly optomistic. The thing that concerns me about CW is that he genuinly comes across as not knowing how to correct this problem. He's tried a couple techniques that have led to transfers and losses. I also don't think he is a very good motivator. That being said, as you pointed out, he has been recruiting well and with talent back on the field I truly think that this ship will turn around. For now, this team looks terrible athletically and fundamentally. That will never be acceptable in my book no matter what the excuse. Doesn't mean I'm bailing on the team. Hell, I will have spent upwards of $2.000 of my own hard earned money to follow them around this year and cheer loudly for them. But, that doesn't mean I have to church up how bad we are. Staying positive hasn't really turned out very well for us.

 

dude, i like you and i don't wanna be seem like i'm picking on you at all because i'm not but you seem to miss my point. the fact that CW TRIES DIFFERENT THINGS is in complete and utter contrast to the previous regime!! and his hire of c. brown has been a near-masterstroke on the field and in recruiting. there was no change with ty! NONE! the same crap happened time and again and HE NEVER ADDRESSED IT!

 

so, again for this reason ALONE, CW gets a pass for a couple of years. at least until he can finish rebuilding the depth than willingham destroyed his last two years.

 

again, we seem to have short memories around here. we bitch about how CW doesn't look too good without brady and shark, etc. well guess what, folks? brady and shark weren't so good till CW ARRIVED. yet, seemingly, people here think that is some kind of freakin' coincidence! i don't think so, CW made them better. he will make JC and duval and AA and hughes and parris better.

 

look, even his mistake at the beginning of the season was at LEAST a error of commission, he was TRYING to do something different to give his team a chance to win. did he over or out think himself? yup! but give me that kind of coach over a never-change-a-thing-never-reach-out coach like the previous one!

 

he recruits, he got a much better d-coordinator and he's still a far superior offensive mind to our previous two coaches. i'm sorry, but that ain't bad in less than 3 years...

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There is no question that Charlie came in with high expectations, his own and the ND community. Regardless of what some of you have been saying there was a lot of talent here when he got here and the two previous coaches knew how to coach. We can debate whether or not they were able to recruit enough talent, but to continue to castigate those two men for what is happening now is nothing more than an excuse and reflects poorly on our community.

 

Look at the facts, we haven't won a really big game in how long? Look at the disaster this season has become. 500 would have been acceptable, this is not. 75% of success in head coaching at the college level is the ability to attract talented guys, it seems that Charlie is capable of doing this. So the we have to ask ourselves what is wrong. Maybe our expectations were too high as he is human after all. This team hasn't look prepared or coached well on the college level. It appears to me that the staff including the head coach is going through a steep learning curve. I think college football has been a cold shower wake up call for Charlie.

 

I think he has been trying to do too much with college kids. I see a team that has skilled running backs, and regardless of what some have said a line that should be able to run block. I remember fondly my conversations with a former defense coordinator for ND who was part of a national champioship team and had a successful era at ND (pun intended). You pick out what works for your team and run it again and again in practice until it becomes second nature. Would anyone here dare suggest that this team looks like anything comes second nature to them?

 

Do we have the experience yet at QB to run the NE passing attack? I don't think so. We are losing to teams that can't beat Northwestern, what does that say.

 

The staff is still in the middle of its learning curve, Charlie needs to jettison his off field distractions, especially his lean towards lawsuits. This is at least the second he has filed that I know of and there was a third one he threatened. The jury is still out on him and fortunately he seems the type of individual who is driven to succeed and is open enough as a human being to realize that others might have input to help him get there.

 

I see him turning it around but not necessarily next year or the next. This is a time for all of us to take a deep breath, be realistic and stay excited about the University. In the mean time shop for a flack jacket and smile.

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I still believe in Charlie. The last two years he proved he could put up quite a few points on offense if he has experienced players. Most of those guys werent stars either. He also put a bunch in the NFL who normally whouldnt have made it. Now we have the defensive mind that weve been waiting for and as a bonus he's an awesome recruiter. Im not worried about the future. Good thread.

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The fact that gives me confidence in CW is that he is bound and determined to win a NC w/ ND. He is completely absorbed into the ND program, players, and community...which means he has a lot at stake. He cares so much that this program is successful, and his confidence shows the direction that he feels the program is going. He has, and will continue to do anything he can do to win, and if that means making major changes to the staff, lineup, and going against what he originally believed would work, he will do. Critics have to give it to CW, he is not so stubborn as to stick with his first decision over what needs to be done. Bottom line, we will be a powerhouse under CW!

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There is no question that Charlie came in with high expectations, his own and the ND community. Regardless of what some of you have been saying there was a lot of talent here when he got here and the two previous coaches knew how to coach. We can debate whether or not they were able to recruit enough talent, but to continue to castigate those two men for what is happening now is nothing more than an excuse and reflects poorly on our community.

 

 

oddthomas, that statement above is factually incorrect. first, i can easily point you to the stats of BQ and shark and mo, et al before CW and after CW. again, do you think it is purely coincidence that their numbers and the offense's numbers improved so much after CW replaced willingham?

 

as for the comment "there was talent when he got here," yes, there was some talent but there was a lack of talent depth and again, i can point you to the star ranking of the ty recruits. you can dismiss those rankings all you like but numerous people, most recently blue-gray sky, have analyzed the numbers and found that star rankings by scout and rivals are still the single best determinant in judging who will be a successful college player and who won't.

 

in fact, ndnation did an analysis and found than ND's depth numbers this year - just numbers, not talent - is literally only a few bodies above what teams who came back from the NCAA "death penalty" had the following year! that's outrageous and the terrible numbers of ty's last two recruiting years are responsible for those poor numbers.

 

these are the facts. you may think they are "nothing more than excuses" but you, with all due respect, are wrong, facts are not excuses. they're reasons.

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BlackIrish you read way too much into what I said. I never claimed Ty was a recruiting genius, however he did well at Stanford and has improved the Washington situation. My point is quit looking backward as I have read here many times that the blame belongs solely on past recruiting. To a large part that is true, but let it go its history. We had 11 players sign NFL contracts last year, so I stand by what I say there was a lot of talent, didn't say their shouldn't have been more depth recruited. Afterall I did say I still believe he will turn it around.

 

I learned a long time ago in business that living in the past does nothing but create problems for the future. Those folks who couldn't get out of that rut eventually were gone.

 

White made two mistakes by hiring O'leary and then Willingham so please don't think I am a Ty apologist.

 

What happens this week, next week, next year etc. is the responsibility of the current staff. The sooner some realize this the better for ND. Go Irish!

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Guest sorin95

thanks for the welcome sir john...

 

i would echo blackirish's opinion as well. i know i've read phil steele articles where he correlates NFL 1st round draft picks with players' high school ratings... there is a serious correlation. although it's possible for a lower-ish rated recruit to come out of nowhere and become a sick college player, the odds are much much higher for highly rated recruits to 'pan out' in college and pro.

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