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Another disappointment


Kid Gloves

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Even though I liked the emotion and effort during the first half, I was really left with another hollow feeling after the game.

 

The fact remains that this team is terrible. Our offense really didn't much at all if you take away the first touchdown off of the turnover. I was impressed with Hughes and Aldridge, but the O-line reverted back to their old ways in the second half. Our passing game was again non-existent. Our receivers are too small, slow, and simply can't get any separation from the DB's. And, how about throwing at least one ball to Carlson?!?!? The passing play calling was terrible. CW refuses to run any play other than a quick out in the flat or a 10 yard out pattern. It was completely frustrating to watch in the second half.

 

The defense wasn't very good either. I know they have a lot of pressure on them because of the Offense, but they simply got worked over all day by the msu running attack. We get no penetration and we get no pressure on the QB. Very rarely do we ever hit anybody in the backfield. Zibby and Lambert have regressed so much from last year it is amazing. I still can't believe that 3rd and 17 play that they converted! How badly did Lambert play that?!? In my opinion that was one of the big momentum changers in the game, along with the sweet play calling on 3rd and 1, and 4th and 1 where we lost 3 yards! Unbelievable.

 

The sad fact remains that we are still getting manhandled on the offensive and defensive lines. I hate to say it, but I just don't see anyway for us to get out of going 0-8. Right now we realistically only have a shot of competing with Duke, Army, Navy, and possibly Stanford--but honestly, even these teams have a legitimate shot at beating us.

 

CW has to shoulder this blame and I feel he is deserving of the criticism he is getting right now. I hope he can turn it around, but I am getting more and more doubts with each passing week.

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I agree with them not throwing to Carlson enough, it makes no sense at all.

 

And its clear that the 4 TE set that has only 1 RB in the backfield does NOT work, it has been blown up everytime this year.

 

The OL looked better today, but how could it not from the first 3 games.

 

On the bright side, this team has 3 very good RB imo, and they all bring a different type of running style.

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What is there to be disappointed about? What are you seriously expecting??? What do you want us to run that works? These games are merely scrimmages. We are just trying to get good at something. Our boys have to get a foundation before they expand the playbook. There were significant positives. I can tell you why they can't throw to Carlson, too...they have him double teamed or they are bringing too many guys, so he has to stay in and block. You better believe every team out there knows that Carlson is the go-to guy, so they aren't going to let that happen. I am proud of the guys making progress and am not disappointed one bit. It is tough to swallow that you can't watch the game for wins and losses, but it is what it is. Come back to reality.

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One more special teams penalty by T. Thomas and we should replace him on that squad. The touchdown aside, he's only getting any notice when he gets called for a hold, clip or personal foul. That hold that started us back on the 10 was critical in the first half.

 

We played better in spots, but another thing that was unsettling to me was how we broke down in so many facets of the game. The muffled handle of the snap on the punt, and even Zibby misplaying the ball on a punt return that would up getting past him. He fields it on one hop with no one around and we get it on the 30. He lets it go by and we start on the 15. And he has a lot of experience back there.

 

Agree that Lambert has regressed. That TD in the first half was the second time he got caught on a critical pass playing the man and not the ball. Maybe he felt he was beaten too badly, but it appeared that if he turned around he breaks up the pass.

 

Defense looked okay in spots, and in a few key situations had some good stops. Really liked seeing Neal and Smith get after the passer a few times. I still think among other things we need a replacement for Ryan at OLB. It seemed like every time in a few series when he was in MSU ran off the edge and he gave up contain. It seemed that they must have seen on film he can't get off a block and use his feet to extend the play to the sideline.

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Guest rocketsan22
These games are merely scrimmages.

 

scrimages :? :roll:

 

Ask NBC if they're happy broadcasting scrimmages.

 

I think you should replace "scrimmages" with "ass whuppings"...

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We lost. but we are undermaned, pardon the expression Ty slobs left. I never like the 'cute'lays by weis. what are you to do with Ty slobs and a bunch if fresh and sops/??? Play conventional heads up one on one football?

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What is there to be disappointed about? What are you seriously expecting??? What do you want us to run that works? These games are merely scrimmages. We are just trying to get good at something. Our boys have to get a foundation before they expand the playbook. There were significant positives. I can tell you why they can't throw to Carlson, too...they have him double teamed or they are bringing too many guys, so he has to stay in and block. You better believe every team out there knows that Carlson is the go-to guy, so they aren't going to let that happen. I am proud of the guys making progress and am not disappointed one bit. It is tough to swallow that you can't watch the game for wins and losses, but it is what it is. Come back to reality

 

I am disappointed because this is the worst state of ND football in history! I am disappointed because I have never, EVER, seen a ND football team this bad! I am disappointed that we are the laughing stock of college football! I am disappointed that we are not only going to be this bad the rest of the year, but we are going to be terrible next year as well! These guys are so bad right now and they are so young--it is going to take at least 2 more years after this just to get back to seeing decent football. I think I have a lot of good reasons to be disappointed!

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I'm not sure what my expectations were for this game. I hoped to see some improvement on the Oline and was happy to see some movement on running plays. I was very disappointed in the short yardage runs and the missed blocks on some of the screens. I think the D played well in the first half having MSU in our side of the field so often. Again, I think we wore down in the second half and the penalties killed some momentum. Overall, liked the improvement, but disappointed with the loss. Just hope to see us improve next week and finally get a W.

 

Am disappointed with the talent level of the upper classes - but that is why CW is now the coach or did we all forget....remember this could be his FIRST year if Ty wasn't let go....just think how bad it would be if that were true...

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You really think we are going to be this bad next year???? Please.... I am not disappointed...I just saw this coming when Ty failed to recruit. I was disappointed then. Now, I am just looking to the future and living with what we have right now. Trust me, we won't be awful next year. And... I have to wonder how many games under Weis Crouching has watched, because I have seen him make adjustments quite often, unlike Ty who would either not adjust, or adjust out of something that had been working. Our boys just need a year under their belts. The state of ND football sucks right now, of course, but I've been dealing with this season since Ty was our coach. All I can say is look to and prepare for the future. And, yes, NBC should see this season for what it is, because this season will pay huge dividends for them in the next few years.

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Guest irishangler

i just want to say that i think ND fans sound silly blaming TY for these problems. Charlie has had 2 years with many of these players. the majority of players on this team have spent at least 50% of their college career under CW. while some of these players may not be "all-world" recruits, CW should at least be able to coach them up in two years to atleast a level of some competency. i am afraid our current woes fall 95% on CW and only 5% on TW. i can only hope CW can keep this current recruiting class and we continually see improvement (and hopefully a win) in the upcoming games.

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Kid Gloves - I hear you and am similarly disappointed for almost all the same reasons as you. I said this after the UM game this is the worst team I've seen in 30 years.

 

But I am still confident we'll be decent next year and very good in a few years. After having slept on my comments about failing in all facets of the game yesterday, I thought perhaps some of this is confidence and guys either pressing too hard to get it back or shying away from making a play because they don't want to gamble. I think Charlie needs to continue trotting the Frosh out there and letting them play.

 

In terms of being a laughingstock - don't let what people say / write piss you off and don't worry about the hype machine and us losing a lot of recruits. Friday, a coworker and U of I alum came by to say "hey, it's Zook's third year and Weis' third year and we're much better than you at this point". You all probably know how I feel about U of I and fans at this point, but it doesn't what all these people say. I said early on the ND haters will have fun this year, but just remember who they are and when we are back in the BCS in two years, go back to them.

 

Actually what's most interesting to me is how people are spending so much time analyzing the records and 'bad' statistics. Clearly we still matter to them. Let them have their fun now.

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Lil Tuna has at least one year more to make things happen. I still think he will have to replace 2-3 position coaches in the off season to keep his job. 90% of our woes ARE coming from O-line. Our receivers are more than talented enough. The reason why you guys aren't seeing them open is because we are always watching the QB to see where he will get steam rolled this play! I will say that now that I have seen the RBs this year that Old Stutter Step Walker may have been better than all the guys we have now because he was dealing with the "Latina Line" too! Sorry! We would have all been doing the step too if 5 300 lb guys were trying to decapitate us! So.....a TOAST, of Wexford, to old stutter step, Darius! May you live long and prosper!

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D Fence - I hear what you are saying and I agree that we will be better in 2 years, but this is IF and ONLY IF, CW truly is the REAL DEAL. I just think it is extremely hypocritical for people to constantly blame our problems on TY. They want to blame Ty for the O-Line woes, but they don't want to give him credit for the players he did recruit. CW has had 2 years to work with and develop these players, as well as recruit some players of his own, and we have drastically regressed.

 

I knew we were going to struggle this year as well, and that was OK by me because I believed we would be better in '08 and '09. But, this is beyond struggling! This is the worst football EVER PLAYED at ND!! I just don't think you go from being THIS bad to a BCS team next year like others on this board have said, or going to a NC in 2 years. I think we will be better next year and a lot better in '09, but we are realistically looking at 2010 before being a legit BCS/NC contender. I will preface this comment by saying this is possible IF and ONLY IF CW is the REAL DEAL! If he turns out to be all talk and no results then we are in so much bigger trouble then we could ever imagine. And, I have to be honest, my faith in CW's coaching ability is greatly shaken over this team's performance so far this year. I am not ready or willing to throw in the towel on him yet, but if we don't drastically improve next year I might be.

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You don't understand the learning curve of young college football players do you? Ty recruited one class of good players. They are gone. Now, we have to wait for the young guys who Weis DID recruit to catch up to the curve, plain and simple. You will see a dramatic change next year, guaranteed. Watch enough college football, follow enough recruiting, and go to enough practices. You'll experience this curve for yourself. There is nothing hypocritical in blaming Ty for not fillling our classes properly with quality talent. Unfortunately, we have to wait for the real talent to figure out the college game, and there is nothing but experience that can fix this.

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What I've noticed as far as the young impact players across the country on various teams are all surrounded by an experienced team. I mean, there aren't any freshman or sophmore players out there carrying their team with no help around them.

 

The Percy Harvins and Colt McCoys and Sam Bradfords of the world are all surrounded by good, if not great talent.

 

Now, in the case of ND, we have those freshman and sophomore impact players, the problem is that we don't have the other good players to give teams multiple things to worry about. We don't have the strong foundation of good players that just need that home run hitter to take them to the next level. But that is what we are building, pretty soon the depth and talent we are stockpiling will be showing up and dominating on Saturdays. It won't be this year and it probably won't be next year. But if we can keep the recruiting train rolling, we WILL be great by the end of 2008 and in to 2009.

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Guest GushBlue&Gold

Ty did a terrible job recruiting after his first class. Just abominable.

 

But he did a terrible job of recruiting for NOTRE DAME. For MSU, it wouldn't have been historically bad, just slightly below average.

 

And I think we all expected Weis would have done better than 0-4 with 3 pathetic performances even if the talent level is low. Does Michigan State have that many better players? Does Appalachian State? There are 118 I-A teams, and probably half have less talent than the Irish. I'd think Weis would be able to be competitive even if you gave him less than ideal talent. We've had some bad luck, and new starters, and 2 mediocre years of recruiting for a DI-A. But Buffalo put 24 up on Penn State, and Virginia beat GT. That's what really worries me.

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You don't understand the learning curve of young college football players do you? Ty recruited one class of good players. They are gone. Now, we have to wait for the young guys who Weis DID recruit to catch up to the curve, plain and simple. You will see a dramatic change next year, guaranteed. Watch enough college football, follow enough recruiting, and go to enough practices. You'll experience this curve for yourself. There is nothing hypocritical in blaming Ty for not fillling our classes properly with quality talent. Unfortunately, we have to wait for the real talent to figure out the college game, and there is nothing but experience that can fix this.

 

I understand football more than you'll ever know. I just can't stand people like you who want to place ALL the blame in areas that don't deserve ALL the blame! You can't blame Ty's recruiting for the O-Line as the SOLE problem! CW has been here for 2 1/2 years and it is his job along with the coach's job to DEVELOP Players and build a cohesive unit. Right now, he has not done this and that is why we are THIS bad. Like I said earlier, I am ok with us struggling this year and I knew we would, but there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for us being this atrocious. There is no excuse for this team to be this bad right now--that is Weis' fault. I am not even saying we shouldn't be 0-4 right now, but we shouldn't be 0-4 this badly. I have serious concerns that Weis has lost this team and that he is not relating to these players. That is not Ty's fault but I'm sure you will find a way to blame him for that as well!

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