Official 2022 Fall Practice Tid Bits Thread

[Domers23 61]

3 hours ago, irishwavend said:

I feel like he needs to work on developing a qb…  I have YET to see a developed qb since Kelly took over.  The only developed qb was Coan who was developed outside the program.  I’m getting tired of the same crap…Book was horrendous as an actual passer who could read a defense and hit a man who was open before he was open.

 

1 hour ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with Freeman exploding lol. I like fire. 

Harry has fire, so I'm sure the OL will be taking a nice step forward this season. 

On QB, I do want there to be communication, and I do want the QB to lead and be vocal. But I just expect "presence" to grow over time. Regardless of level of presence though, both QBs should be openly dialoging real time with their targets, and learning every rep. And until QB1 is identified, and has some experience, I expect the position coaches to be jumping in to be corrective, regardless of if it's the QB, WR, TE, or RB making a goof. 

 

3 hours ago, OKelleyIrish said:

I've just been honest with myself on QB recruiting. Most have been average recruits. IIRC, Buchner was outside the top 10 a bit, but was decently ranked. But I've always seen him as a project. 

As far as this season goes, I think Buchner brings the most upside, while Pyne is likely the better passer. 

Book wasn't that bad. He was never seen as a stud coming in. He outperformed expectations, so I'll at minimum appreciate that. 

Carr is the fist legit top 5 guy we've had in a while. I'll bide my time lol. 

I think you are completely underrating Buchner. First off, he is their qb 1 and it isn’t even close.  Marcus is just doing what he needs to do and say to the media.  Buchner was a high 4 star/5 star. His ability to change a game with his legs and throwing ability could be unparalleled in his time in college. Imo there is no way Pyne is a better pssser than Buchner.  I hope you are pleasantly surprised by him this year. He has the ability to be an absolute stud. It sounds like his foot work was top notch and decision making was strong in the first practice. He also has the ability to throw receivers open. Now does he have to prove it on Saturdays. Absolutely!  But I for one am extremely excited for what Buchner brings to the table. 

[Domers23 61]

4 hours ago, irishwavend said:

I feel like he needs to work on developing a qb…  I have YET to see a developed qb since Kelly took over.  The only developed qb was Coan who was developed outside the program.  I’m getting tired of the same crap…Book was horrendous as an actual passer who could read a defense and hit a man who was open before he was open.

Book got drafted!  He was no where near an nfl caliber qb when he came into college. Rees developed the hell out of him.  Unfortunately he had limitations and refused to trust himself.  A coach can only do so much, imo to say book was undeveloped is not accurate.  

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

31 minutes ago, Domers23 said:

I think you are completely underrating Buchner. First off, he is their qb 1 and it isn’t even close.  Marcus is just doing what he needs to do and say to the media.  Buchner was a high 4 star/5 star. His ability to change a game with his legs and throwing ability could be unparalleled in his time in college. Imo there is no way Pyne is a better pssser than Buchner.  I hope you are pleasantly surprised by him this year. He has the ability to be an absolute stud. It sounds like his foot work was top notch and decision making was strong in the first practice. He also has the ability to throw receivers open. Now does he have to prove it on Saturdays. Absolutely!  But I for one am extremely excited for what Buchner brings to the table. 

Buchner was the 11th ranked QB. That's good. Not elite though. I would agree he has a high ceiling.

But... To use Freeman's words, "Everybody knows he can run".... 

He'll need to prove things passing. Missing his senior year, fiddling with his throwing motion, used as a run first package guy last season... Just a ton of questions still. We all saw the same thing last season with doses of both Buchner and Pyne. Neither looked like obvious QB1s. But guys develop and get better. So not by any means suggesting he won't be a good QB. We simply haven't seen it yet. Early reports out of fall practice aren't exactly obvious. But it's way early. We'll see. 

[jessemoore97 1,270]

7 hours ago, irishwavend said:

I feel like he needs to work on developing a qb…  I have YET to see a developed qb since Kelly took over.  The only developed qb was Coan who was developed outside the program.  I’m getting tired of the same crap…Book was horrendous as an actual passer who could read a defense and hit a man who was open before he was open.

The QB whisperer was anything but.  Every QB under Kelly stagnated or got worse under him.  Part of it was they were wound too tight and afraid to make mistakes causing Kelly to go full Grimace on the sideline and I could only imagine what film day was like after games.  Another part was I don't think they got very effective coaching on how to be a better QB.  This is one of my biggest concerns with Rees as OC and QB coach.

[Domers23 61]

13 hours ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Buchner was the 11th ranked QB. That's good. Not elite though. I would agree he has a high ceiling.

But... To use Freeman's words, "Everybody knows he can run".... 

He'll need to prove things passing. Missing his senior year, fiddling with his throwing motion, used as a run first package guy last season... Just a ton of questions still. We all saw the same thing last season with doses of both Buchner and Pyne. Neither looked like obvious QB1s. But guys develop and get better. So not by any means suggesting he won't be a good QB. We simply haven't seen it yet. Early reports out of fall practice aren't exactly obvious. But it's way early. We'll see. 

I will agree to disagree with you that his ability and skill set are not elite.  His ceiling imo is an elite QB at the college level. 

I agree with you that he certainly has a lot to prove with his passing on Saturday's, but there is evidence that he is much closer to doing that than not.  IMO some of these guys that report on ND football are clowns.  I have listened to many different ND media members for a while now and to me hands down the best is Driskell and his team.  They know the game of football and exactly what they are looking at, and are fair and honest in assessment.  I listened to many podcasts of theirs (I highly recommend by the way) this spring and summer and this is what they saw and came away with.   Buchner has shown great feet, an ability to throw on the run, hit deep balls accurately, throw receivers open, and throw from different arm slots.  Throwing short routes consistently has given him some trouble, but all accounts are that he has worked hard on that and has gotten better.   Driskell’s team has said that Buchner is the number one hands down both in the eye test and, their words, "He  got 90% of the 1st team reps in practice on Friday."  

Also, Freeman's not stupid.  If I were him, I would absolutely downplay Buchner's ability to throw.  Then come Sept. 3rd and Bam here you go.  

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Domers23

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

3 hours ago, Domers23 said:

I will agree to disagree with you that his ability and skill set are not elite.  His ceiling imo is an elite QB at the college level. 

I agree with you that he certainly has a lot to prove with his passing on Saturday's, but there is evidence that he is much closer to doing that than not.  IMO some of these guys that report on ND football are clowns.  I have listened to many different ND media members for a while now and to me hands down the best is Driskell and his team.  They know the game of football and exactly what they are looking at, and are fair and honest in assessment.  I listened to many podcasts of theirs (I highly recommend by the way) this spring and summer and this is what they saw and came away with.   Buchner has shown great feet, an ability to throw on the run, hit deep balls accurately, throw receivers open, and throw from different arm slots.  Throwing short routes consistently has given him some trouble, but all accounts are that he has worked hard on that and has gotten better.   Driskell’s team has said that Buchner is the number one hands down both in the eye test and, their words, "He  got 90% of the 1st team reps in practice on Friday."  

Also, Freeman's not stupid.  If I were him, I would absolutely downplay Buchner's ability to throw.  Then come Sept. 3rd and Bam here you go.  

 

Being elite, and having an elite ceiling are two different things. Buchner has an elite ceiling. His passing was far from elite last season in the little we saw. It was also reported he's struggled at times in the off season. Pyne is neither elite, nor does he have an elite ceiling. So odds are obviously that Buchner starts. And everyone expects it. I expect it. I'm just not buying the sunshine train about his passing. Throwing short routes, which you acknowledge is an area where he struggled, is a big, and a basic, part of the game for a QB. It's the meat and potatoes part of any QB's game. 

[Domers23 61]

32 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Being elite, and having an elite ceiling are two different things. Buchner has an elite ceiling. His passing was far from elite last season in the little we saw. It was also reported he's struggled at times in the off season. Pyne is neither elite, nor does he have an elite ceiling. So odds are obviously that Buchner starts. And everyone expects it. I expect it. I'm just not buying the sunshine train about his passing. Throwing short routes, which you acknowledge is an area where he struggled, is a big, and a basic, part of the game for a QB. It's the meat and potatoes part of any QB's game. 

Lol.  You are cherry picking everything negative.  I believe there is nothing I can say that will give you optimism that Buchner is the real deal so I will stop trying.  I for one look forward to seeing him play and lighting it up this year.  Go Irish. 

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

38 minutes ago, Domers23 said:

Lol.  You are cherry picking everything negative.  I believe there is nothing I can say that will give you optimism that Buchner is the real deal so I will stop trying.  I for one look forward to seeing him play and lighting it up this year.  Go Irish. 

Everything I posted was reality based on what I've seen and read. Nothing was negative. I'm just not going to pump sunshine. I expect him to start, and grow/develop this year. I will cheer for him regardless. It's not like I'm wishing Pyne gets the start, or hoping Buchner doesn't have a great year. 

[Domers23 61]

13 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Everything I posted was reality based on what I've seen and read. Nothing was negative. I'm just not going to pump sunshine. I expect him to start, and grow/develop this year. I will cheer for him regardless. It's not like I'm wishing Pyne gets the start, or hoping Buchner doesn't have a great year. 

Lol.  Perspective I guess.   Everything I posted is also reality based on what I've heard and read.  It's not pumping sunshine.  It's what has been reported and seen.  Of course he will grow and develop this year.  I guess I think he will start the year farther along than you do based on what I have heard and read.  We shall see.  

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

1 minute ago, Domers23 said:

Lol.  Perspective I guess.   Everything I posted is also reality based on what I've heard and read.  It's not pumping sunshine.  It's what has been reported and seen.  Of course he will grow and develop this year.  I guess I think he will start the year farther along than you do based on what I have heard and read.  We shall see.  

Even the latest report I read said Buchner struggled with accuracy a bit on 11on11 team snaps. 

It did say that his comfort level had improved in the pocket, which is a good thing. 

I've yet to see 11/11 film on him that's not been a mixed bag. Anything you can point me to?

[Domers23 61]

51 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Even the latest report I read said Buchner struggled with accuracy a bit on 11on11 team snaps. 

It did say that his comfort level had improved in the pocket, which is a good thing. 

I've yet to see 11/11 film on him that's not been a mixed bag. Anything you can point me to?

You also have to remember that not all of those accuracy issues are his fault. Being early on in full camp wide receivers aren’t always running the right routes or running them correctly. 

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

27 minutes ago, Domers23 said:

You also have to remember that not all of those accuracy issues are his fault. Being early on in full camp wide receivers aren’t always running the right routes or running them correctly. 

No need to try and shift blame lol.

Reports are reports. It's not exactly a surprising thing that we didn't expect to hear early camp. 

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,649]

The QB position will be the most talked about position battle of fall camp

Pyne and Buchner are about even or there would not be a competition

Buchner has more potential. Speed, 2 inches taller,  not as polished. Played more but in a limited role. Leadership is an unknown.

Pyne has alot more time at ND. Redshirted under Book.  Played a little. Is a vocal leader. undersized. No wow skill 

 

SO DOES ND GO WITH:

POTIENTIAL: BUCHNER

POLISH:      PYNE

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

Buchner will win the gig. If not, I'd be deeply disappointed. 

If he doesn't show consistency though, wouldn't be shocked to see a platoon approach later, or Pyne taking over. 

But he'll start game one and get the chance. 

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,649]

Just now, OKelleyIrish said:

Buchner will win the gig. If not, I'd be deeply disappointed. 

If he doesn't show consistency though, wouldn't be shocked to see a platoon approach later, or Pyne taking over. 

But he'll start game one and get the chance. 

I think that's the key, consistency. During the Virginia Tech game he had moments. But then also the awful interception across his body. 

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,649]

 

[Domers23 61]

31 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

No need to try and shift blame lol.

Reports are reports. It's not exactly a surprising thing that we didn't expect to hear early camp. 

Lol. Not shifting blame. It’s a fact. Not all incompletions are the qbs fault. A source I listened to said that some of that was very much on the receivers. He said buchner put the ball where it was supposed to be and that the receivers weren’t there for different reasons. They said they saw that on a few occasions. Just reporting what I heard. Do with it what you want. 

[Domers23 61]

22 minutes ago, FaithInIrishForever said:

The QB position will be the most talked about position battle of fall camp

Pyne and Buchner are about even or there would not be a competition

Buchner has more potential. Speed, 2 inches taller,  not as polished. Played more but in a limited role. Leadership is an unknown.

Pyne has alot more time at ND. Redshirted under Book.  Played a little. Is a vocal leader. undersized. No wow skill 

 

SO DOES ND GO WITH:

POTIENTIAL: BUCHNER

POLISH:      PYNE

In my opinion it is a competition in name only. Those 2 are not close to neck and neck. Buchner is taking most of the first team reps. 

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,649]

Just now, Domers23 said:

In my opinion it is a competition in name only. Those 2 are not close to neck and neck. Buchner is taking most of the first team reps. 

Well they are close to neck and neck at 1 important category: 0 games started. The other stuff is just an injury away from changing. So its imperative that the staff has both guys ready and engaged. The best way to make that happen is a competition.

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

12 minutes ago, FaithInIrishForever said:

I think that's the key, consistency. During the Virginia Tech game he had moments. But then also the awful interception across his body. 

Agreed. I think we all know the past, and the areas he needs to work on. 

Good reports on his footwork, and his comfort level in the pocket. He wasn't allowed to run in RZ drills, and I like that. Forces him develop passing instead of relying on his safety valve (legs). 

Hopefully those two things translate into improved passing. We just don't have a lot to go on to make a call one way or another. 

I expect our OL to a major step forward this season. Not sure if I buy the #1 preseason OL rank, but with Harry, we should be top 10 at minimum IMO. And that means less reliance on legs. I'm not saying I don't want Buchner to run at all, I do when the situation calls for it. I just don't want it to be his default.