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Official 2022 Fall Practice Tid Bits Thread


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I feel like he needs to work on developing a qb…  I have YET to see a developed qb since Kelly took over.  The only developed qb was Coan who was developed outside the program.  I’m getting tired of the same crap…Book was horrendous as an actual passer who could read a defense and hit a man who was open before he was open.

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1 hour ago, irishwavend said:

I feel like he needs to work on developing a qb…  I have YET to see a developed qb since Kelly took over.  The only developed qb was Coan who was developed outside the program.  I’m getting tired of the same crap…Book was horrendous as an actual passer who could read a defense and hit a man who was open before he was open.

I've just been honest with myself on QB recruiting. Most have been average recruits. IIRC, Buchner was outside the top 10 a bit, but was decently ranked. But I've always seen him as a project. 

As far as this season goes, I think Buchner brings the most upside, while Pyne is likely the better passer. 

Book wasn't that bad. He was never seen as a stud coming in. He outperformed expectations, so I'll at minimum appreciate that. 

Carr is the fist legit top 5 guy we've had in a while. I'll bide my time lol. 

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5 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

I've just been honest with myself on QB recruiting. Most have been average recruits. IIRC, Buchner was outside the top 10 a bit, but was decently ranked. But I've always seen him as a project. 

As far as this season goes, I think Buchner brings the most upside, while Pyne is likely the better passer. 

Book wasn't that bad. He was never seen as a stud coming in. He outperformed expectations, so I'll at minimum appreciate that. 

Carr is the fist legit top 5 guy we've had in a while. I'll bide my time lol. 

I like where Marcus is Telling the Qbs to have a Command Presence. Have you seen what happens when Tom Brady and a receiver get it wrong? Brady corrects it on the field. To often, in my opinion Kelly was the Command Presence. If the players don't work through things themselves I would argue problems are more likely to occur on gameday. 

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22 minutes ago, FaithInIrishForever said:

I like where Marcus is Telling the Qbs to have a Command Presence. Have you seen what happens when Tom Brady and a receiver get it wrong? Brady corrects it on the field. To often, in my opinion Kelly was the Command Presence. If the players don't work through things themselves I would argue problems are more likely to occur on gameday. 

IDK Faith. Brady commands respect because he's earned it over a long period of time. Buchner and Pyne are 1st year QBs and likely need as much corrective coaching as the WRs/TEs. But I do agree the QB should be vocal if the WR or TE runs the wrong route or makes the wrong read. And they should do it until it's done right. But the "presence" itself is earned over time. And typically the guy commanding needs to be close to role model himself before guys fall in line. 

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10 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

IDK Faith. Brady commands respect because he's earned it over a long period of time. Buchner and Pyne are 1st year QBs and likely need as much corrective coaching as the WRs/TEs. But I do agree the QB should be vocal if the WR or TE runs the wrong route or makes the wrong read. And they should do it until it's done right. But the "presence" itself is earned over time. And typically the guy commanding needs to be close to role model himself before guys fall in line. 

I see where you are coming from. I agree Leadership is that way. But you can have a discussion on your way off the field at any age. I just want to see/hear about more discussions between players. The 5 on the line I know always have a unique bond on offense, but more of that on the team will help. I think Coach Freeman has already started to foster that by letting his coaches talk to the media. I just look forward to no pictures of Kelly going crazy with an ND shirt on. The players can't benefit too much from watching their coach explode.

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9 minutes ago, FaithInIrishForever said:

I see where you are coming from. I agree Leadership is that way. But you can have a discussion on your way off the field at any age. I just want to see/hear about more discussions between players. The 5 on the line I know always have a unique bond on offense, but more of that on the team will help. I think Coach Freeman has already started to foster that by letting his coaches talk to the media. I just look forward to no pictures of Kelly going crazy with an ND shirt on. The players can't benefit too much from watching their coach explode.

Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with Freeman exploding lol. I like fire. 

Harry has fire, so I'm sure the OL will be taking a nice step forward this season. 

On QB, I do want there to be communication, and I do want the QB to lead and be vocal. But I just expect "presence" to grow over time. Regardless of level of presence though, both QBs should be openly dialoging real time with their targets, and learning every rep. And until QB1 is identified, and has some experience, I expect the position coaches to be jumping in to be corrective, regardless of if it's the QB, WR, TE, or RB making a goof. 

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11 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with Freeman exploding lol. I like fire. 

Harry has fire, so I'm sure the OL will be taking a nice step forward this season. 

On QB, I do want there to be communication, and I do want the QB to lead and be vocal. But I just expect "presence" to grow over time. Regardless of level of presence though, both QBs should be openly dialoging real time with their targets, and learning every rep. And until QB1 is identified, and has some experience, I expect the position coaches to be jumping in to be corrective, regardless of if it's the QB, WR, TE, or RB making a goof. 

I personally prefer the head set spike! ala Nick Saban, just kinding, kinda. Anyway, Freeman turned the music up a few periods so the players had to communicate more like gameday. Coaches will  be on the field.  But there can't always be an open book test and than on gameday its the SAT. So I just see a few operational differences in practices, I like. Of course, post season I have an opinion whether I think they helped, right now I just think they are good ideas.  

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12 minutes ago, FaithInIrishForever said:

I personally prefer the head set spike! ala Nick Saban, just kinding, kinda. Anyway, Freeman turned the music up a few periods so the players had to communicate more like gameday. Coaches will  be on the field.  But there can't always be an open book test and than on gameday its the SAT. So I just see a few operational differences in practices, I like. Of course, post season I have an opinion whether I think they helped, right now I just think they are good ideas.  

I hope they pump in as much noise as they can before the OSU game. That place should be crazy loud. Don't want our players walking around in awe of all the stuff happening around them, or simply unable to function given the pure loudness of the place. 

I don't mind tossed headsets at all lol. Not every game or anything, but there are times when I think it's more than fine. And I'm OK with a player getting a chewing if they make an obvious mistake that costs the team. Not every time. Not the first time a player goofs. But if a player doesn't learn, they need a little chewing (because it's likely the gentle coaching didn't work before). 

Everything in moderation lol. 

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3 hours ago, irishwavend said:

I feel like he needs to work on developing a qb…  I have YET to see a developed qb since Kelly took over.  The only developed qb was Coan who was developed outside the program.  I’m getting tired of the same crap…Book was horrendous as an actual passer who could read a defense and hit a man who was open before he was open.

 

1 hour ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with Freeman exploding lol. I like fire. 

Harry has fire, so I'm sure the OL will be taking a nice step forward this season. 

On QB, I do want there to be communication, and I do want the QB to lead and be vocal. But I just expect "presence" to grow over time. Regardless of level of presence though, both QBs should be openly dialoging real time with their targets, and learning every rep. And until QB1 is identified, and has some experience, I expect the position coaches to be jumping in to be corrective, regardless of if it's the QB, WR, TE, or RB making a goof. 

 

3 hours ago, OKelleyIrish said:

I've just been honest with myself on QB recruiting. Most have been average recruits. IIRC, Buchner was outside the top 10 a bit, but was decently ranked. But I've always seen him as a project. 

As far as this season goes, I think Buchner brings the most upside, while Pyne is likely the better passer. 

Book wasn't that bad. He was never seen as a stud coming in. He outperformed expectations, so I'll at minimum appreciate that. 

Carr is the fist legit top 5 guy we've had in a while. I'll bide my time lol. 

I think you are completely underrating Buchner. First off, he is their qb 1 and it isn’t even close.  Marcus is just doing what he needs to do and say to the media.  Buchner was a high 4 star/5 star. His ability to change a game with his legs and throwing ability could be unparalleled in his time in college. Imo there is no way Pyne is a better pssser than Buchner.  I hope you are pleasantly surprised by him this year. He has the ability to be an absolute stud. It sounds like his foot work was top notch and decision making was strong in the first practice. He also has the ability to throw receivers open. Now does he have to prove it on Saturdays. Absolutely!  But I for one am extremely excited for what Buchner brings to the table. 

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4 hours ago, irishwavend said:

I feel like he needs to work on developing a qb…  I have YET to see a developed qb since Kelly took over.  The only developed qb was Coan who was developed outside the program.  I’m getting tired of the same crap…Book was horrendous as an actual passer who could read a defense and hit a man who was open before he was open.

Book got drafted!  He was no where near an nfl caliber qb when he came into college. Rees developed the hell out of him.  Unfortunately he had limitations and refused to trust himself.  A coach can only do so much, imo to say book was undeveloped is not accurate.  

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31 minutes ago, Domers23 said:

I think you are completely underrating Buchner. First off, he is their qb 1 and it isn’t even close.  Marcus is just doing what he needs to do and say to the media.  Buchner was a high 4 star/5 star. His ability to change a game with his legs and throwing ability could be unparalleled in his time in college. Imo there is no way Pyne is a better pssser than Buchner.  I hope you are pleasantly surprised by him this year. He has the ability to be an absolute stud. It sounds like his foot work was top notch and decision making was strong in the first practice. He also has the ability to throw receivers open. Now does he have to prove it on Saturdays. Absolutely!  But I for one am extremely excited for what Buchner brings to the table. 

Buchner was the 11th ranked QB. That's good. Not elite though. I would agree he has a high ceiling.

But... To use Freeman's words, "Everybody knows he can run".... 

He'll need to prove things passing. Missing his senior year, fiddling with his throwing motion, used as a run first package guy last season... Just a ton of questions still. We all saw the same thing last season with doses of both Buchner and Pyne. Neither looked like obvious QB1s. But guys develop and get better. So not by any means suggesting he won't be a good QB. We simply haven't seen it yet. Early reports out of fall practice aren't exactly obvious. But it's way early. We'll see. 

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7 hours ago, irishwavend said:

I feel like he needs to work on developing a qb…  I have YET to see a developed qb since Kelly took over.  The only developed qb was Coan who was developed outside the program.  I’m getting tired of the same crap…Book was horrendous as an actual passer who could read a defense and hit a man who was open before he was open.

The QB whisperer was anything but.  Every QB under Kelly stagnated or got worse under him.  Part of it was they were wound too tight and afraid to make mistakes causing Kelly to go full Grimace on the sideline and I could only imagine what film day was like after games.  Another part was I don't think they got very effective coaching on how to be a better QB.  This is one of my biggest concerns with Rees as OC and QB coach.

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13 hours ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Buchner was the 11th ranked QB. That's good. Not elite though. I would agree he has a high ceiling.

But... To use Freeman's words, "Everybody knows he can run".... 

He'll need to prove things passing. Missing his senior year, fiddling with his throwing motion, used as a run first package guy last season... Just a ton of questions still. We all saw the same thing last season with doses of both Buchner and Pyne. Neither looked like obvious QB1s. But guys develop and get better. So not by any means suggesting he won't be a good QB. We simply haven't seen it yet. Early reports out of fall practice aren't exactly obvious. But it's way early. We'll see. 

I will agree to disagree with you that his ability and skill set are not elite.  His ceiling imo is an elite QB at the college level. 

I agree with you that he certainly has a lot to prove with his passing on Saturday's, but there is evidence that he is much closer to doing that than not.  IMO some of these guys that report on ND football are clowns.  I have listened to many different ND media members for a while now and to me hands down the best is Driskell and his team.  They know the game of football and exactly what they are looking at, and are fair and honest in assessment.  I listened to many podcasts of theirs (I highly recommend by the way) this spring and summer and this is what they saw and came away with.   Buchner has shown great feet, an ability to throw on the run, hit deep balls accurately, throw receivers open, and throw from different arm slots.  Throwing short routes consistently has given him some trouble, but all accounts are that he has worked hard on that and has gotten better.   Driskell’s team has said that Buchner is the number one hands down both in the eye test and, their words, "He  got 90% of the 1st team reps in practice on Friday."  

Also, Freeman's not stupid.  If I were him, I would absolutely downplay Buchner's ability to throw.  Then come Sept. 3rd and Bam here you go.  

 

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3 hours ago, Domers23 said:

I will agree to disagree with you that his ability and skill set are not elite.  His ceiling imo is an elite QB at the college level. 

I agree with you that he certainly has a lot to prove with his passing on Saturday's, but there is evidence that he is much closer to doing that than not.  IMO some of these guys that report on ND football are clowns.  I have listened to many different ND media members for a while now and to me hands down the best is Driskell and his team.  They know the game of football and exactly what they are looking at, and are fair and honest in assessment.  I listened to many podcasts of theirs (I highly recommend by the way) this spring and summer and this is what they saw and came away with.   Buchner has shown great feet, an ability to throw on the run, hit deep balls accurately, throw receivers open, and throw from different arm slots.  Throwing short routes consistently has given him some trouble, but all accounts are that he has worked hard on that and has gotten better.   Driskell’s team has said that Buchner is the number one hands down both in the eye test and, their words, "He  got 90% of the 1st team reps in practice on Friday."  

Also, Freeman's not stupid.  If I were him, I would absolutely downplay Buchner's ability to throw.  Then come Sept. 3rd and Bam here you go.  

 

Being elite, and having an elite ceiling are two different things. Buchner has an elite ceiling. His passing was far from elite last season in the little we saw. It was also reported he's struggled at times in the off season. Pyne is neither elite, nor does he have an elite ceiling. So odds are obviously that Buchner starts. And everyone expects it. I expect it. I'm just not buying the sunshine train about his passing. Throwing short routes, which you acknowledge is an area where he struggled, is a big, and a basic, part of the game for a QB. It's the meat and potatoes part of any QB's game. 

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32 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Being elite, and having an elite ceiling are two different things. Buchner has an elite ceiling. His passing was far from elite last season in the little we saw. It was also reported he's struggled at times in the off season. Pyne is neither elite, nor does he have an elite ceiling. So odds are obviously that Buchner starts. And everyone expects it. I expect it. I'm just not buying the sunshine train about his passing. Throwing short routes, which you acknowledge is an area where he struggled, is a big, and a basic, part of the game for a QB. It's the meat and potatoes part of any QB's game. 

Lol.  You are cherry picking everything negative.  I believe there is nothing I can say that will give you optimism that Buchner is the real deal so I will stop trying.  I for one look forward to seeing him play and lighting it up this year.  Go Irish. 

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38 minutes ago, Domers23 said:

Lol.  You are cherry picking everything negative.  I believe there is nothing I can say that will give you optimism that Buchner is the real deal so I will stop trying.  I for one look forward to seeing him play and lighting it up this year.  Go Irish. 

Everything I posted was reality based on what I've seen and read. Nothing was negative. I'm just not going to pump sunshine. I expect him to start, and grow/develop this year. I will cheer for him regardless. It's not like I'm wishing Pyne gets the start, or hoping Buchner doesn't have a great year. 

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13 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Everything I posted was reality based on what I've seen and read. Nothing was negative. I'm just not going to pump sunshine. I expect him to start, and grow/develop this year. I will cheer for him regardless. It's not like I'm wishing Pyne gets the start, or hoping Buchner doesn't have a great year. 

Lol.  Perspective I guess.   Everything I posted is also reality based on what I've heard and read.  It's not pumping sunshine.  It's what has been reported and seen.  Of course he will grow and develop this year.  I guess I think he will start the year farther along than you do based on what I have heard and read.  We shall see.  

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1 minute ago, Domers23 said:

Lol.  Perspective I guess.   Everything I posted is also reality based on what I've heard and read.  It's not pumping sunshine.  It's what has been reported and seen.  Of course he will grow and develop this year.  I guess I think he will start the year farther along than you do based on what I have heard and read.  We shall see.  

Even the latest report I read said Buchner struggled with accuracy a bit on 11on11 team snaps. 

It did say that his comfort level had improved in the pocket, which is a good thing. 

I've yet to see 11/11 film on him that's not been a mixed bag. Anything you can point me to?

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