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ARTICLE: KELLY LIKED GOLF MORE THAN RECRUITING


Jersey Irish
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Heard that on the Chris Zorich podcast. Him, Holtz and TY loved the golf course. The only problem is Lou had Vinnie Cerrato. Those others didn’t. Watch recruiting go to places that Jbrown and I have been saying for years now. We knew. That bull crap line of only being able to fish out of a very small pond is just that crap. Yes, ND has a smaller selection to choose, but not to the extent that they were recruiting. 
On that podcast they talk about Kelly never even calling Chase Young who went to a Catholic university. That Bryce Young never got a call from Kelly. How?  That should be a given to go to Catholic high schools. That’s your bread and butter!  

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5 minutes ago, coltssb said:

Heard that on the Chris Zorich podcast. Him, Holtz and TY loved the golf course. The only problem is Lou had Vinnie Cerrato. Those others didn’t. Watch recruiting go to places that Jbrown and I have been saying for years now. We knew. That bull crap line of only being able to fish out of a very small pond is just that crap. Yes, ND has a smaller selection to choose, but not to the extent that they were recruiting. 
On that podcast they talk about Kelly never even calling Chase Young who went to a Catholic university. That Bryce Young never got a call from Kelly. How?  That should be a given to go to Catholic high schools. That’s your bread and butter!  

Watch Elder06 swoop in to defend Bayou Brian . FORE !!

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6 minutes ago, FaithInIrishForever said:

well in fairness since ND recruits nationally, the  HC would need to be in a ton of high schools, not sure how realistic that is, but yea kelly golfed alot, well documented

Saban also golfs a lot. All of this pettiness reeks of immaturity 

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Holy cow. Chase Young was never coming to ND. He fell in love with OSU's DL coach. Aside for some very very early flirting with local MD, it was an OSU (Leonard) vs Bama (Tosh) battle. He left early and didn't graduate although he could have easily graduated in 3 years with his major. Not sure if he even finished classes his last semester. Not a dumb kid at all, but he wasn't there to play school. And I don't really blame him.

Bryce Young was never coming either. He was an early USC commit and jumped ship as Helton's career started to tank. Sark put the pressure on big time and got the flip. Bryce even made comments about the flip which were pretty clear that he was a football first and "what's best for me" type of kid.

We'll see if we can do better now. I hope we can. The 50% of the top 100 still won't qualify lol, so hope we can do better with the 50% that does. I'd bet the D side will do better, but we'll see about the O. Our biggest need is an elite QB. Elite QBs that fit at ND and want ND are hard to find.

 

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55 minutes ago, ELDER06 said:

I’ll defend him for getting ND to a level they hadn’t seen in 30 years. You guys are acting like 1997-2009 didn’t happen. 

Here’s a question for you then: was Bayou Brian that good, or the others that bad?   Tell you what, if Freeman ends up being a bust, I’lll eat crow, I won’t hide

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5 minutes ago, zemaniak said:

Here’s a question for you then: was Kelly that good, or the others that bad?   Tell you what, if Freeman ends up being a bust, I’lll eat crow, I won’t hide

I don't think anyone is suggesting Freeman will be a bust (at least not me, I like the hire). 

I'm just saying BK did a complete rebuild, and brought consistency. We were a dumpster fire for a while, and we're in a much, much, better place right now.

BK is gone. Good wishes and good riddance. I've already moved on to Freeman/Rees driving the boat. 

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18 minutes ago, zemaniak said:

Here’s a question for you then: was Kelly that good, or the others that bad?   Tell you what, if Freeman ends up being a bust, I’lll eat crow, I won’t hide

I don’t want Freeman to be a bust. And as always, I think the truth is in the middle. I think the 3 coaches before Kelly were bad, but he’s also benefitted from USC & Michigan being down/off the schedule. 

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41 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting Freeman will be a bust (at least not me, I like the hire). 

I'm just saying BK did a complete rebuild, and brought consistency. We were a dumpster fire for a while, and we're in a much, much, better place right now.

BK is gone. Good wishes and good riddance. I've already moved on to Freeman/Rees driving the boat. 

Sums up my ambivalence towards Bayou Brian quite well.  

You’re right, he brought ND back from the dead. But I refuse to compare him to a Holtz,  an Ara, or God Forbid, a Knute.  I’ll venture to say the program was sick and needed to hit rock bottom to realize how arrogant/complacent it had become. And that with right direction, all it needed was the right salesman.

That is how I see Bayou Brian,  like a salesman more than coach. He sold players and coaches on ND, and did that well.  That seems to be his niche, building run down programs, then leaving for greener pastures. So I guess you can say he was the right guy at the right time. I’ll give you that.

but as a coach, a developper of talent, a leader of men?  I’ll say above average at best, but not elite. 

 

Elite comedy skills however !!  

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2 minutes ago, zemaniak said:

Sums up my ambivalence towards BK quite well.  

You’re right, he brought ND back from the dead. But I refuse to compare him to a Holtz,  an Ara, or God Forbid, a Knute.  I’ll venture to say the program was sick and needed to hit rock bottom to realize how arrogant/complacent it had become. And that with right direction, all it needed was the right salesman.

That is how I see Kelly,  like a salesman more than coach. He sold players and coaches on ND, and did that well.  That seems to be his niche, building run down programs, then leaving for greener pastures. So I guess you can say he was the right guy at the right time. I’ll give you that.

but as a coach, a developper of talent, a leader of men?  I’ll say above average at best, but not elite. 

He didn’t win a title, so he’s not comparable. However, I’m not sure Lou could win a Title in today’s environment.

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1 minute ago, ELDER06 said:

I think that’s a fair thing to point out. He wasn’t up against USC during the Carroll years and he was coming up against Michigan right as they hit their decline. 

Had he won just 33% of the Big Games we were in I’d have a much different opinion of him as a coach.  I’ll be following LSU closely…

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1 minute ago, zemaniak said:

Had he won just 33% of the Big Games we were in I’d have a much different opinion of him as a coach.  I’ll be following LSU closely…

What’s a big game? Obviously, the playoffs, but there were games where the opponent was top 10 (Stanford & Michigan ‘18) but finished the yr outside the top 10/top 25. However, there’s also games like Mich St in ‘13. They weren’t a top 10 team, but ended up going 13-1 winning the Rose Bowl.

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2 minutes ago, ELDER06 said:

I think that’s a fair thing to point out. He wasn’t up against USC during the Carroll years and he was coming up against Michigan right as they hit their decline. 

 

4 minutes ago, zemaniak said:

on this I wholeheartedly agree

Good job finding common ground both you guys! Makes the moderator in me proud! Go Irish

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1 minute ago, ELDER06 said:

What’s a big game? Obviously, the playoffs, but there were games where the opponent was top 10 (Stanford & Michigan ‘18) but finished the yr outside the top 10/top 25. However, there’s also games like Mich St in ‘13. They weren’t a top 10 team, but ended up going 13-1 winning the Rose Bowl.

Shit no, now you’re trolling. I won’t indulge you. Everyone on this board knows which games 

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5 minutes ago, ELDER06 said:

He didn’t win a title, so he’s not comparable. However, I’m not sure Lou could win a Title in today’s environment.

No way in hell would Holtz win a championship today. The only reason ND was any good was because they used their national tv contract.  They were one of the only teams that could be watched nationwide regularly. The 100-man scholarship limit was pretty nice for hoarding talent as well.

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54 minutes ago, Gonkers said:

No way in hell would Holtz win a championship today. The only reason ND was any good was because they used their national tv contract.  They were one of the only teams that could be watched nationwide regularly. The 100-man scholarship limit was pretty nice for hoarding talent as well.

Are you f’ing nuts? Go look at the teams Holtz beat in 88’. He was bringing in top 3 classes year over year for 4 - 5 straight years. Holtz won big games. 

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Holtz would have struggled big time in today's restrictive environment. Guys like Rice and Bus, who he got snuck through by begging and pleading, wouldn't even be offered today..... You ought to google the Bus's story, and how Lou fought for him, and how it changed his life. And the Bus was the first one to come to Lou's defense last year, while the University again crapped on him. 

Not sure how much you guys know about our history, but if you want to blame anyone for our demise, blame the admin. During the Holtz years, the admin (pres and BOT) basically did their best to diminish football. They just didn't like ND being known for football, and thought the program had become bigger than the university. Holtz's relationship with the admin became toxic, and Lou was forced out (oh sorry, "retired" lol).. 

Gone were any chances of getting borderline guys in. And they went totally cheap/conservative on HC. Davie was a good D coach, but was lost when it came to O, or HC in general. They barely even interviewed anyone. I think Barnett was the only other one interviewed/considered. Then they went cheap/conservative again with Willingham. TW's record at Stanford was not impressive at all, but they though he was a good fit coming from another "education first" program. 

The admin got more and more heat those years, boosters stopped boosting, and they finally started taking football serious again. So they swung for the fences with Urban Liar and Weis. Weis didn't work out, but at least they started trying again lol... 

Anyway, BK is the first one in a long long time to be able to right the ship, under the admin's vision of ND football. And I know on the surface things looked good between Jack and BK, and perhaps it was. But don't fool yourself into thinking BK didn't have to put up with a lot of BS at ND that he'll never have to deal with at LSU. The good news is, I don't think Freeman is Davie lol... But I'm sure some of the older folks on the board may be having flashbacks.

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2 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Holtz would have struggled big time in today's restrictive environment. Guys like Rice and Bus, who he got snuck through by begging and pleading, wouldn't even be offered today..... You ought to google the Bus's story, and how Lou fought for him, and how it changed his life. And the Bus was the first one to come to Lou's defense last year, while the University again crapped on him. 

Not sure how much you guys know about our history, but if you want to blame anyone for our demise, blame the admin. During the Holtz years, the admin (pres and BOT) basically did their best to diminish football. They just didn't like ND being known for football, and thought the program had become bigger than the university. Holtz's relationship with the admin became toxic, and Lou was forced out (oh sorry, "retired" lol).. 

Gone were any chances of getting borderline guys in. And they went totally cheap/conservative on HC. Davie was a good D coach, but was lost when it came to O, or HC in general. They barely even interviewed anyone. I think Barnett was the only other one interviewed/considered. Then they went cheap/conservative again with Willingham. TW's record at Stanford was not impressive at all, but they though he was a good fit coming from another "education first" program. 

The admin got more and more heat those years, boosters stopped boosting, and they finally started taking football serious again. So they swung for the fences with Urban Liar and Weis. Weis didn't work out, but at least they started trying again lol... 

Anyway, BK is the first one in a long long time to be able to right the ship, under the admin's vision of ND football. And I know on the surface things looked good between Jack and BK, and perhaps it was. But don't fool yourself into thinking BK didn't have to put up with a lot of BS at ND that he'll never have to deal with at LSU. The good news is, I don't think Freeman is Davie lol... But I'm sure some of the older folks on the board may be having flashbacks.

Good post. I think there was a booster scandal in there somewhere as well 

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  • FaithInIrishForever changed the title to ARTICLE: KELLY LIKED GOLF MORE THAN RECRUITING

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