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Had 3 years to recruit a Freshman QB1


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The last 10+ Years, the biggest problem with the team has been the QB. 

Book, Wimbush, Kizer, Zaire, Golson, Reese, Crist

An overall Abysmal List. 

They had 3 Years to sell a recruit.  Come, be a true freshman, or come last year and redshirt, and then come into 2021 and be the undisputed 3 to 4 year leader for NOTRE DAME

And what are they rolling into 2021 with?  A top 10 team, with a 5th year QB transfer, who lost his job 2 years ago in Wisco,  was a 3 star recruit, and has no future with the program.

Awful planning and execution. 

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Welcome to DD.. I think I get your contention and totally AGREE with a QB ceiling and Under achievement in QB recruiting. I don't think  the answer is  to have a freshman QB 1.

I don't think Jimmy Clausen did well as a freshman, 

I think its a reaction to Trevor Lawrence winning as a Freshman and TUA winning early.

I think Oklahoma started a youngster last year but weren't quite in the final.

 

So i'm with your idea, better quarterback selection, recruiting development but not sold on the conclusion. 

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1 hour ago, NDLincPark said:

The last 10+ Years, the biggest problem with the team has been the QB. 

Book, Wimbush, Kizer, Zaire, Golson, Reese, Crist

An overall Abysmal List. 

They had 3 Years to sell a recruit.  Come, be a true freshman, or come last year and redshirt, and then come into 2021 and be the undisputed 3 to 4 year leader for NOTRE DAME

And what are they rolling into 2021 with?  A top 10 team, with a 5th year QB transfer, who lost his job 2 years ago in Wisco,  was a 3 star recruit, and has no future with the program.

Awful planning and execution. 

Maybe letting a backup throw a pass every now and then would have an impact on QB recruiting / retention. When Clemson's punter had more passes completed than ND's 2nd and 3rd string QBs combined, it does not help to attract / retain QB talent and may help explain why Jurkovec transferred to BC. (Who, BTW, some are projecting to be a projected 1st/2nd draft pick)

https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft/is-phil-jurkovec-a-first-round-pick-in-the-2022-nfl-draft

Edited by jbrown_9999
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1 hour ago, NDLincPark said:

The last 10+ Years, the biggest problem with the team has been the QB. 

Book, Wimbush, Kizer, Zaire, Golson, Reese, Crist

An overall Abysmal List. 

They had 3 Years to sell a recruit.  Come, be a true freshman, or come last year and redshirt, and then come into 2021 and be the undisputed 3 to 4 year leader for NOTRE DAME

And what are they rolling into 2021 with?  A top 10 team, with a 5th year QB transfer, who lost his job 2 years ago in Wisco,  was a 3 star recruit, and has no future with the program.

Awful planning and execution. 

Coan lost his spot only due to injury and everyone knew that the new QB was the future for the team. Its not like Coan just lost his job one week.

Most of those QBs on that list were highly regarded coming out of high school. The worst QB on that list (Crist) was a 5* QB. Wimbush was a HIGH 4*, Golson and Zaire were highly regarded as well. If I remember correctly, Kizer was ranked pretty low and he made it to the NFL while playing on a bad ND team. Crist was truly an anomaly, but the rest were decent, none were really a star/Heisman type player and that is difficult to find. Alabama QBs have been mostly game managers for the last decade throwing to 3-4 1st round WRs every year. Lawrence was a generational QB. Ohio State has really been the only school to replace an elite QB with another elite QB.

I just think some have unrealistic expectations and want a Heisman QB followed by another Heisman QB. Those types of QBs are few and far between.

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Couple of thoughts

 

1. I dont want a freshman QB, they are the the exception, not the norm. I would rather a stud (for arguments sake, lets call him D.J. Uiagalelei), site for a year under a older qb, then play as a soph... aka, exactly what is happening with Buckner. Most freshman QBs go through growing pains. I am sure ND fans would be very understanding growing pains with a top 10 teams. 

2. Can we please please start spelling Rees' name correctly. He was a three year starting QB, now is a coach and OC? How hard is it to spell correctly?

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1 hour ago, NDhoosier said:

Coan lost his spot only due to injury and everyone knew that the new QB was the future for the team. Its not like Coan just lost his job one week.

Most of those QBs on that list were highly regarded coming out of high school. The worst QB on that list (Crist) was a 5* QB. Wimbush was a HIGH 4*, Golson and Zaire were highly regarded as well. If I remember correctly, Kizer was ranked pretty low and he made it to the NFL while playing on a bad ND team. Crist was truly an anomaly, but the rest were decent, none were really a star/Heisman type player and that is difficult to find. Alabama QBs have been mostly game managers for the last decade throwing to 3-4 1st round WRs every year. Lawrence was a generational QB. Ohio State has really been the only school to replace an elite QB with another elite QB.

I just think some have unrealistic expectations and want a Heisman QB followed by another Heisman QB. Those types of QBs are few and far between.

People want a QB to at least be in contention to win the heisman. Not to much to ask. We haven’t had one yet In the Kelly era

Edited by ndfanatic78
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2 hours ago, Synoptico said:

Couple of thoughts

 

1. I dont want a freshman QB, they are the the exception, not the norm. I would rather a stud (for arguments sake, lets call him D.J. Uiagalelei), site for a year under a older qb, then play as a soph... aka, exactly what is happening with Buckner. Most freshman QBs go through growing pains. I am sure ND fans would be very understanding growing pains with a top 10 teams. 

2. Can we please please start spelling Rees' name correctly. He was a three year starting QB, now is a coach and OC? How hard is it to spell correctly?

It's Buchner. Tyler Buchner. ?

 

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5 hours ago, NDhoosier said:

Ohio State has really been the only school to replace an elite QB with another elite QB.

I just think some have unrealistic expectations and want a Heisman QB followed by another Heisman QB. Those types of QBs are few and far between.

Ohio State has been the only school to replace an elite QB with another elite QB.? I guess Oklahoma's QBs must have been just average...

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I don’t think it was awful planning so much, rather the execution is the main thing. A number of those recruits mentioned, Christ, Wimbush, Golson, Zaire, were pretty highly thought of coming out of HS. They didn’t pan out for any number of reasons.

It seems we now have that ideal situation with Buchner as a frosh who can sit  behind Coan for a season. Hopefully, he can see some meaningful reps this year.

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8 hours ago, FaithInIrishForever said:

I'll give you that Jbrown but wasn't Hurts a transfer from Bama? Was there another transfer or am I way off?

I had written about QBs at CFP contenders. Seems relevant to this thread. Fields was a transfer at Ohio State so helps to show that it is hard to totally ignore the impact / need to use transfers for QBs. That said, ND's past QB recruiting seems to be a notch behind other CFP schools.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, The Captain 19 said:

I'm a little slow at times. I'm definitely not trying to be the spelling / grammer police. 

You're not slow.  I think you caught him and he is doubling down saying it was a joke because he got busted.  The way its typed out, looks nothing like a joke to me.

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1 hour ago, NYGoldenDomer said:

I think he was pointing more towards Mayfield to Murry.

I was pointing out that Oklahoma has probably had the best run of QBs not Ohio St as NDHoosier had stated.

Oklahoma had three straight QBs who were drafted #1 overall, #1 overall, and #53 (second round). Note that they were all transfers. As a result, recruiting of high school elite QBs is not "required" to be successful but you need to be able to recruit elite college transfers at least.

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30 minutes ago, jbrown_9999 said:

I was pointing out that Oklahoma has probably had the best run of QBs not Ohio St as NDHoosier had stated.

Oklahoma had three straight QBs who were drafted #1 overall, #1 overall, and #53 (second round). Note that they were all transfers. As a result, recruiting of high school elite QBs is not "required" to be successful but you need to be able to recruit elite college transfers at least.

Ah ok I see.

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11 hours ago, jimbo said:

I don’t think it was awful planning so much, rather the execution is the main thing. A number of those recruits mentioned, Christ, Wimbush, Golson, Zaire, were pretty highly thought of coming out of HS. They didn’t pan out for any number of reasons.

It seems we now have that ideal situation with Buchner as a frosh who can sit  behind Coan for a season. Hopefully, he can see some meaningful reps this year.

Agree. Although, if I am anybody not named Coan or Buchner, I would of been in the transfer portal at the end of last season. The writing was on the wall for those guys. It was Book or bust the whole season. 

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13 minutes ago, coltssb said:

Mayfield was a transfer from Texas Tech I believe too. 

Ok, Jbrown confirmed that an hour ago.  Thanks.  My point was that he was talking about going from Mayfield to Murry.  Not Murry to Hurts.  Idk why where Mayfield came from is relevant.  

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Who knows. I think it was a simple reflection that Ohio Stare isn’t the only qb to get elite talent every year. Oklahoma is able to do it to. Via recruiting or transfers. ND hasn’t been able to have an elite qb for some reason or another. 

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13 hours ago, coltssb said:

Who knows. I think it was a simple reflection that Ohio Stare isn’t the only qb to get elite talent every year. Oklahoma is able to do it to. Via recruiting or transfers. ND hasn’t been able to have an elite qb for some reason or another. 

Since 2010, Kelly has only had two QBs be drafted by the NFL:

2017 - DeShone Kizer (2nd Round)
2021 - Ian Book (4th Round)

Alabama, Ohio St, and Clemson have all had their last two QBs drafted in the FIRST round. Oklahoma cannot say that due to Hurts but they did have two straight #1 overall picks followed by a 2nd round pick. 

2020 - Tua Tagovailoa (1st Round)
2021 - Mac Jones (1st Round)

2017 - Deshaun Watson (1st Round)
2021 - Trevor Lawrence (1st Round #1)

2019 - Dwayne Haskins (1st Round)
2021 - Justin Fields (1st Round)

2018 - Baker Mayfield (1st Round #1)
2019 - Kyler Murray (1st Round #1)

2020 - Jalen Hurts (2nd Round)

 

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For years I have had a problem with the style of offense that we have run. That style of offense has not required a a stud 6'2+ QB to run the offense. We have recruited undersizedand mobile QBs who have also been uncomfortable in the pocket and unwilling or incapable of reading defenses and going through progressions. Strange considering the Oline that has been recruited in the NFL. This is Kelly and previous O coordinators. Our problem is recruiting elite talent at defense and speed skill positions. Aside from some outliers (Tate, Floyd, Rudolph, Eifert, Twitter, Smith) we don't get elite LBs, D Line or skill guys. We get TE, and Oline. The current environment of NIL and pending realignment could ptovide us a more even playing field. 

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