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First Round Draft Picks: Holtz v. Kelly


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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Proof of concept for Notre Dame and the Draft under Brian Kelly.<br><br>If Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah and Liam Eichenberg go in the first round, it would give the Irish 11 first-round picks in Kelly's 11 seasons. In Lou Holtz's 11 seasons, Notre Dame produced 12 first-round picks.</p>— Pete Sampson (@PeteSampson_) <a href="

">February 16, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

I found that stat pretty surprising. I was born in '89, so I don't remember Holtz's run, but I always assumed those teams were loaded with talent (they were). So, I'm surprised the number of first round draft picks is nearly identical between Holtz and Kelly (although, I think it's likely to be 12 vs. 10 because I don't see Eichenberg landing in the first round).

 

I'd also be curious to see draft picks in rounds 1-3 and overall draft picks. I'd imagine Holtz has the edge in both categories.

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In my Opinion Holtz was a slighty better coach but I also think the competition as a whole was weaker.

 

I know I'll catch it for that but I don't think Lou faced what the likes of Saban has constructed at Bama. i know he faced alot of Ranked teams but he could get as much talent as they could. Saban has made it almost a oligopoly

 

I know, that will draw alot of controversy but thats the way I feel

 

I'm just saying West Virginia 88-89 in my opinion would lose to Sabans modern teams as well.

 

Just my opinion

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Holtz 1986-1996

'88 Tim Brown (HOF)

'89 Andy Heck

'91 Todd Lyght

'92 Derek Brown

'93 Rick Mirer

'93 Jerome Bettis (HOF)

'93 Tom Carter

'93 Irv Smith

'94 Bryant Young

'94 Aaron Taylor

'94 Jeff Burris

'97 Renaldo Wynn

 

Kelly 2010-2020

'12 Michael Floyd

'12 Harrison Smith

'13 Tyler Eifert

'14 Zack Martin

'16 Ronnie Stanley

'16 Will Fuller

'18 Quenton Nelson

'18 Mike McGlinchey

'19 Jerry Tillery

'21 Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah (PENDING)

'21 Liam Eichenberg (PENDING)

 

I really hope that Liam gets picked in the 1st round and keeps NDs streak of starting LTs going in the 1st round.

 

had bettis and carter come back for their senior season ND would have had five 1st rounders in '94.

 

which list is better Holtz or Kelly?

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In my Opinion Holtz was a slighty better coach but I also think the competition as a whole was weaker.

 

I know I'll catch it for that but I don't think Lou faced what the likes of Saban has constructed at Bama. i know he faced alot of Ranked teams but he could get as much talent as they could. Saban has made it almost a oligopoly

 

I know, that will draw alot of controversy but thats the way I feel

 

I'm just saying West Virginia 88-89 in my opinion would lose to Sabans modern teams as well.

 

Just my opinion

 

1) For the record, the first four names for Kelly were recruited by Weis. I believe that the cupboard had less in it for Holtz than for Kelly.

 

2) There are more 1st round picks now due to there being more NFL Teams. So harder to have three and four players picked in first round in the 1990's than now.

 

3) Your argument is disingenuous. You are claiming that Kelly has it harder since Kelly cannot recruit Top 5 classes because of schools such as Alabama, Ohio St, and others. Some would argue that Holtz's performance as a coach should not be discounted just because Lou was able to recruit Top 5 classes (as did Miami and Florida St. at that time).

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1) For the record, the first four names for Kelly were recruited by Weis. I believe that the cupboard had less in it for Holtz than for Kelly.

 

2) There are more 1st round picks now due to there being more NFL Teams. So harder to have three and four players picked in first round in the 1990's than now.

 

3) Your argument is disingenuous. You are claiming that Kelly has it harder since Kelly cannot recruit Top 5 classes because of schools such as Alabama, Ohio St, and others. Some would argue that Holtz's performance as a coach should not be discounted just because Lou was able to recruit Top 5 classes (as did Miami and Florida St. at that time).

 

I knew that was coming,

 

Kelly is short of Holtz. I said that. But the more he gets to playoffs its hard to tell how far short. I don't think he recruits like Holtz did because Meyer was on Holtz staff.

 

But to say 1988 isn't different then 2021 is not true either. So Holtz is better, by how much thats up for debate.

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1) For the record, the first four names for Kelly were recruited by Weis. I believe that the cupboard had less in it for Holtz than for Kelly.

 

2) There are more 1st round picks now due to there being more NFL Teams. So harder to have three and four players picked in first round in the 1990's than now.

 

3) Your argument is disingenuous. You are claiming that Kelly has it harder since Kelly cannot recruit Top 5 classes because of schools such as Alabama, Ohio St, and others. Some would argue that Holtz's performance as a coach should not be discounted just because Lou was able to recruit Top 5 classes (as did Miami and Florida St. at that time).

 

They were recruited by Weis, but developed by Kelly. Floyd always had first round potential (he was a 5-star), but the other three were guys BK got to the first round. Harrison Smith floundered under Weis because Weis didn't know how to utilize him, but he became a borderline All-American in his last season under BK. Maybe Zach Martin was always a first rounder, but he never played a down under Weis. Same with Eifert, who was a lowly 3-star.

Edited by tneun89
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Sorry Faith, I about lost my shyt when you said Lou was “barely” better coach.

It took Lou THREE years to turn what was the Faust dumpster fire into a championship. Still waiting on Kelly....................::::::...

Also, in those first three years the only bad losses that Lou had was to a bad Pitt team back to back years. Which Pitt always seems to have ND’s number for some reason so that’s understandable.

 

During the 88 run ND beat 1,2,3, and 9 that year. That’s the equivalent to the playoffs this year. Also, Lou’s worst loss in those three years was 25 to Texas A&M in the bowl game IN Dallas.

 

Kelly’s worst game in those three years...Let me count them...NAVY by 18. TULSA!!! By 1 point. Waxed by a 16th ranked Stanford by 23. SOUTH FLORIDA!! By 3. And Alabama Championship game by 28.

 

Lou faced 14 ranked teams to BK’s 10. Lou was 7-7 BK was 6-4. More ranked teams but with a little less results. I guess....

 

I used to have a sports illustrated magazine when they were cool that had Lou on the cover and it said something to the degree of, “is Lou the best big time coach ever?” That can never be claimed by BK.

 

Lou also had a “FBS” championship with Arkansas. I could go on and on. Either way, until BK stops getting humiliated in front of National TV(something Lou never did) than we can begin talking. Until then, I’ll just laugh from my iPhone.

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Sorry Faith, I about lost my shyt when you said Lou was “barely” better coach.

It took Lou THREE years to turn what was the Faust dumpster fire into a championship. Still waiting on Kelly....................::::::...

Also, in those first three years the only bad losses that Lou had was to a bad Pitt team back to back years. Which Pitt always seems to have ND’s number for some reason so that’s understandable.

 

During the 88 run ND beat 1,2,3, and 9 that year. That’s the equivalent to the playoffs this year. Also, Lou’s worst loss in those three years was 25 to Texas A&M in the bowl game IN Dallas.

 

Kelly’s worst game in those three years...Let me count them...NAVY by 18. TULSA!!! By 1 point. Waxed by a 16th ranked Stanford by 23. SOUTH FLORIDA!! By 3. And Alabama Championship game by 28.

 

Lou faced 14 ranked teams to BK’s 10. Lou was 7-7 BK was 6-4. More ranked teams but with a little less results. I guess....

 

I used to have a sports illustrated magazine when they were cool that had Lou on the cover and it said something to the degree of, “is Lou the best big time coach ever?” That can never be claimed by BK.

 

Lou also had a “FBS” championship with Arkansas. I could go on and on. Either way, until BK stops getting humiliated in front of National TV(something Lou never did) than we can begin talking. Until then, I’ll just laugh from my iPhone.

 

How much better better then?

 

Is Holtz 10 percent better?

Is Holtz 20 Percent Better?

Is Holtz 30 Percent Better?

Is Holtz 40 Perecent Better?

Is Holtz 50 percent Better?

 

I'm about Holtz is 10-20 Percent better.

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How much better better then?

 

Is Holtz 10 percent better?

Is Holtz 20 Percent Better?

Is Holtz 30 Percent Better?

Is Holtz 40 Perecent Better?

Is Holtz 50 percent Better?

 

I'm about Holtz is 10-20 Percent better.

 

Realistically at least 40 percent better.

Holtz won championships.

Holtz never got humiliated time and time again on the National stage.

Holtz gameplan may not work in this day and age but the man had an identity or his teams did.

Holtz beat a Miami I know damn well sure Kelly wouldn’t of. I don’t care if you can realistically judge that or not. Those Miami teams were loaded like Alabama’s and Kelly didn’t come close to beating Bama once.

It’s that much of a percentage gap and I’ll tell you why. If you’re life was on the line and you are had to choose one game to win and the coach would have to be between Kelly and Holtz. Who you taking?

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I think it shows that Holtz's peak was higher than Kelly's, but Kelly's longevity seems to perhaps outdo Lou.

 

Lou had 7 first round picks in a two year span. Those teams were loaded, but for whatever reason he didn't sustain that into the mid 90's.

 

Kelly hasn't had the one super team that Holtz put together.

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I think it shows that Holtz's peak was higher than Kelly's, but Kelly's longevity seems to perhaps outdo Lou.

 

Lou had 7 first round picks in a two year span. Those teams were loaded, but for whatever reason he didn't sustain that into the mid 90's.

 

Kelly hasn't had the one super team that Holtz put together.

 

Do not forget that Rocket Ismail did not get drafted but probably should be counted as a first round pick for Holtz in 1991.

 

Holtz really had two 'super teams'. 88 / 89 teams (24-1) had less high end talent but did better record-wise than 92 / 93 (21-2-1).

 

Given that Holtz won one NC and was screwed out of either 89 or 93 and Kelly has never even won a big post-season game at ND much less a NC, IMO it is easier to compare Kelly to John Cooper at Ohio St then Holtz.

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I think it shows that Holtz's peak was higher than Kelly's, but Kelly's longevity seems to perhaps outdo Lou.

 

Lou had 7 first round picks in a two year span. Those teams were loaded, but for whatever reason he didn't sustain that into the mid 90's.

 

Kelly hasn't had the one super team that Holtz put together.

 

Thats the point I was trying to make, longevity vs a championship, well said. Clearly most ND fans prefer the championship.

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Do not forget that Rocket Ismail did not get drafted but probably should be counted as a first round pick for Holtz in 1991.

 

Holtz really had two 'super teams'. 88 / 89 teams (24-1) had less high end talent but did better record-wise than 92 / 93 (21-2-1).

 

Given that Holtz won one NC and was screwed out of either 89 or 93 and Kelly has never even won a big post-season game at ND much less a NC, IMO it is easier to compare Kelly to John Cooper at Ohio St then Holtz.

 

Thats a solid point. Cooper led to I think Tressel who won one. So, I think Kelly's setting it up for the next guy, at least. We all wish Kelly was "THE GUY" though.

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