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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mike Elston says Notre Dame can recruit “less than half” of the Top 100 prospects nationally. <br><br>Talking to people around Notre Dame over the years, the number is probably a little closer to 33%, give or take.</p>— Pete Sampson (@PeteSampson_) <a href="

">February 3, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

Mike Elston says Notre Dame can recruit “less than half” of the Top 100 prospects nationally.

 

 

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He may be right but I will always come back to Charlie Weis. How was he able to pull knuckleheads Michael Floyd and Golden Tate? Manti(Polynesian)from the island who are known to stay on the west coast? Clausen the #1 qb from California- during the poodle years? It can be done. To put it in simple terms as Elston has put it screams lazy to me. Just my opinion though. Maybe Nd needs to hire a blowhard with super bowl experience to pull these kids in then?

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He may be right but I will always come back to Charlie Weis. How was he able to pull knuckleheads Michael Floyd and Golden Tate? Manti(Polynesian)from the island who are known to stay on the west coast? Clausen the #1 qb from California- during the poodle years? It can be done. To put it in simple terms as Elston has put it screams lazy to me. Just my opinion though. Maybe Nd needs to hire a blowhard with super bowl experience to pull these kids in then?

You act like Kelly didn't land Tuitt, Lynch, Ishaq, Jaylon, Q, Blake, Mayer etc etc

 

Kellys classes have been better, more well rounded than Weis'

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You act like Kelly didn't land Tuitt, Lynch, Ishaq, Jaylon, Q, Blake, Mayer etc etc

 

Kellys classes have been better, more well rounded than Weis'

 

For better or worse, Wies seemed to have the arrogance that he could outwork other coaches and recruit top talent.

 

Kelly on the other hand, after his first few years seemed to back off aggressively going after higher rated talent and has just lately started to talk about aiming higher even if a lot of it is 'just talk' (if reports such as Kelly not talking to Tyson Ford are to be believed).

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You act like Kelly didn't land Tuitt, Lynch, Ishaq, Jaylon, Q, Blake, Mayer etc etc

 

Kellys classes have been better, more well rounded than Weis'

 

Uhhhhh. Tuitt, Lynch, Ishaq were in his first two years. Jaylon was literally in ND’s backyard. Q, Blake, Mayer were not “*5’s.” Also, I’m going off of what Elston wrote. His words not mine. He claims that 33 percent is the max and I just claimed that Weis topped that 33 percent in 5 years. Kelly and company have been at it for 12.

 

Anyways, well rounded vs top talent has been argued at ad nauseum. Kelly was fortunate to have some talent left in the cupboards where Weis did not. Kelly is a better coach but worst recruiter in my eyes.

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We have talked about this in the past and its probably true. ND is limited from day 1 for the high level recruits. A good example is Gabriel Rubio. He was told his GPA needed to rise and he needed certain academic things to happen. He did it, ND offered, he committed. His choice. This has happened in the past with other players like Donovan Edwards (I believe it was him) and they chose elsewhere. Also, players like Will Shipley just want to stay home and play for the big time school.

 

Weis could pull offense because he was the OC for the Super Bowl Champs. Go back and look at his D recruits. Manti and Harrison Smith are the main two, he actually had a few high ranked D players flame out.

 

As far as well rounded classes, it isn't even close between Kelly and Weis. Weis simply had a big boom with O recruiting for 3 years. Extremely top heavy with offense.

 

Weis might have laid the groundwork for Tuitt and Co. but I don't remember that. Regardless Kelly and crew brought that one home. Ishaq was all Diaco.

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The groundwork for Tuitt and those guys was laid by Weis.

 

its a fine line experiences with Shembo, Shepard and Greenberry then create a trend towards the players that are outstanding citizens and good athletes

 

Meyer wouldn't coach ND for a reason, and I'm sure not getting any play he could recruit was part of it.

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The groundwork for Tuitt and those guys was laid by Weis.

 

This was in year two, so I don’t think Weis still had that effect on recruits. Unless he was talking to those guys their junior years. Which could of happen.

 

My apologies, Mayer I believe is a 5 star. Anyways, going back and looking, Kelly I think recruited his best his first three years at ND and now has gone the Brey way of just adding depth guys that will be a huge success when they are seniors. A good way to get in the playoffs every year but no chance of winning it.

Kelly signed Tuitt, Lynch, Ishaq his second year, Jaylon his third and Gunner Kiel his 4th. Then we haven’t seen a 5 star since Mayer according to Rivals. (Correction Kramer.) Anyways, That is not good enough IMO. And it flys in the face of what Elston is selling. Kelly has showed he can recruit AND GET those 5 stars. He just hasn’t since Mayer recently.

Is 6 five stars in 12 years at ND the best they can do? Maybe, I just think that ND can hit a few more homeruns here and there. Especially at QB and wide receiver.

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This was in year two, so I don’t think Weis still had that effect on recruits. Unless he was talking to those guys their junior years. Which could of happen.

 

My apologies, Mayer I believe is a 5 star. Anyways, going back and looking, Kelly I think recruited his best his first three years at ND and now has gone the Brey way of just adding depth guys that will be a huge success when they are seniors. A good way to get in the playoffs every year but no chance of winning it.

Kelly signed Tuitt, Lynch, Ishaq his second year, Jaylon his third and Gunner Kiel his 4th. Then we haven’t seen a 5 star since Mayer according to Rivals. (Correction Kramer.) Anyways, That is not good enough IMO. And it flys in the face of what Elston is selling. Kelly has showed he can recruit AND GET those 5 stars. He just hasn’t since Mayer recently.

Is 6 five stars in 12 years at ND the best they can do? Maybe, I just think that ND can hit a few more homeruns here and there. Especially at QB and wide receiver.

 

From the little I know so far, I am a big Marcus Freeman fan. It seems that, like Weis, he brings high expectations and great energy to recruiting. It is too bad that it is the DC who exhibits those traits rather than the head coach. I wonder if Kelly's early recruiting successes were due to Diaco. In any case, I expect to see defensive recruiting improve to Top 5 levels since Freeman does not seem willing to "settle" for previous lowered expectations.

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Uhhhhh. Tuitt, Lynch, Ishaq were in his first two years. Jaylon was literally in ND’s backyard. Q, Blake, Mayer were not “*5’s.” Also, I’m going off of what Elston wrote. His words not mine. He claims that 33 percent is the max and I just claimed that Weis topped that 33 percent in 5 years. Kelly and company have been at it for 12.

 

Anyways, well rounded vs top talent has been argued at ad nauseum. Kelly was fortunate to have some talent left in the cupboards where Weis did not. Kelly is a better coach but worst recruiter in my eyes.

 

Q, Mayer, and Blake were all 5 stars on at least one site. Tyree and Buchner and Rocco and Kraemer were all borderline 5 star when we landed them.

 

Who cares if it was in his first 2 years, he landed them

 

Weis didnt recruit well on the lines of scrimmage. Kellys classes much better than Weis

Edited by golson5
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Q, Mayer, and Blake were all 5 stars on at least one site. Tyree and Buchner and Rocco and Kraemer were all borderline 5 star when we landed them.

 

Who cares if it was in his first 2 years, he landed them

 

Weis didnt recruit well on the lines of scrimmage. Kellys classes much better than Weis

 

It does matter when Kelly landed them. When Kelly himself has mentioned he could be recruiting better. So, yes, he has been lackadaisical in that regard. Which brings the point of Elston’s quote. Who’s telling the truth? Kelly DID recruit higher classes early on but then trailed off. Only to publicly say he can get top 5 classes. NOW Elston is backtracking to the middle years of Kelly saying this is pretty much the best we can do because less than half the top 100 kids are recruitable. Which one is it? So 77 of the top 100 kids yearly are stupid and ND has no shot. Got it..

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It does matter when Kelly landed them. When Kelly himself has mentioned he could be recruiting better. So, yes, he has been lackadaisical in that regard. Which brings the point of Elston’s quote. Who’s telling the truth? Kelly DID recruit higher classes early on but then trailed off. Only to publicly say he can get top 5 classes. NOW Elston is backtracking to the middle years of Kelly saying this is pretty much the best we can do because less than half the top 100 kids are recruitable. Which one is it? So 77 of the top 100 kids yearly are stupid and ND has no shot. Got it..

Like I said....

 

Q, Mayer, Kraemer, Blake were all 5 stars. I forgot Jordan Johnson as well. Wasnt Kiel a 5 star too?

 

Rocco Buchner Tyree were borderline 5 stars as well

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Like I said....

 

Q, Mayer, Kraemer, Blake were all 5 stars. I forgot Jordan Johnson as well. Wasnt Kiel a 5 star too?

 

Rocco Buchner Tyree were borderline 5 stars as well

 

So with all these “5” stars, shouldn’t ND be in these games with Bama/Clemson/tOSU? It sure sounds like we have a roster full of these guys.

Sorry if I sound facetious.

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So with all these “5” stars, shouldn’t ND be in these games with Bama/Clemson/tOSU? It sure sounds like we have a roster full of these guys.

Sorry if I sound facetious.

 

No. Their rosters are top 3 in talent and loaded with 5 stars. Our roster is top 8 to 10 in talent with a few 5 stars and a bunch of really good 4 and 3 stars. They are on different level than us

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No. Their rosters are top 3 in talent and loaded with 5 stars. Our roster is top 8 to 10 in talent with a few 5 stars and a bunch of really good 4 and 3 stars. They are on different level than us

 

Ok. Last question... Do you agree with Elston then? 33 percent is the best ND can do.

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For better or worse, Wies seemed to have the arrogance that he could outwork other coaches and recruit top talent.

 

What's it matter if Weis had s#!tt!er results, right? By any measure, his recruiting (and, while we're at it, player development) was inferior to Kelly's. The lines on both sides of the ball are shining examples of this.

Not saying we shouldn't raise our expectations, just that a comparison with Weis really shouldn't do anything other than prove out that Kelly was better.

IMHO, a better exercise would be to compare Kelly to Saban, Dabo, etc. since that's the final frontier that he needs to break into if we're going to be more competitive for NC's.

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What's it matter if Weis had s#!tt!er results, right? By any measure, his recruiting (and, while we're at it, player development) was inferior to Kelly's. The lines on both sides of the ball are shining examples of this.

Not saying we shouldn't raise our expectations, just that a comparison with Weis really shouldn't do anything other than prove out that Kelly was better.

IMHO, a better exercise would be to compare Kelly to Saban, Dabo, etc. since that's the final frontier that he needs to break into if we're going to be more competitive for NC's.

 

I was comparing Weis to Kelly in terms of the effort that Weis put into recruiting. Weis traveled a lot to recruit and was always texting recruits. Weis also did not seem to think that he should not bother recruiting five stars but went right after top recruits like Clausen and T'eo. Weis had numerous flaws but his aggressiveness towards recruiting was IMO a positive.

 

"High Energy" Kelly sat around and waited for his staff to ask him to talk to Tyron Ford. They never asked so Kelly never bothered to reach out to Ford. That's leading from the sofa.

 

I would love to be able to compare Kelly to Saban, Meyer, etc. but I get told that ND can never have a coach like them. Instead I used Weis as an example of someone at ND who worked harder at recruiting than Kelly.

Edited by jbrown_9999
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So we don’t begin cultivating those relationships until these kids are Seniors...? Weis had some part in it, I’m sure.

 

Weis didnt talk to those recruits for 13 months before they signed....if he did at all. 13 months

 

Its ridiculous to think he had any impact whatsoever on them signing. Nice try though.

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Ok. Last question... Do you agree with Elston then? 33 percent is the best ND can do.

 

I didnt see the 33 percent number. I thought he said a little less than 50 percent.

 

I have no idea if the number is accurate or not

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Grabbed these numbers from a NDN post.

 

ND Top 100 recruiting

 

2006 - 6 commits, 20 offers (class ranked #5 in nation)

2007 - 8 commits, 36 offers (class ranked #6 in nation)

2008 - 9 commits, 18 offers (class ranked #2 in nation)

 

23 commits, 74 offers = 31% close rate (2006-2008 )

 

Last Three Years

 

9 commits, 141 offers = 6% close rate (2019-2021)

 

Why is Kelly offering twice as many Top 100 players but signing only about 1/3 as many?

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I didnt see the 33 percent number. I thought he said a little less than 50 percent.

 

Your correct I never heard him say 33 percent. He was responding to a specific question from a reporter too he was not making an excuse.

 

BTW Marcus Freeman in his interview Wednesday used the description ....a recruit has to be the right FIT for ND multiple times describing how they identify potential recruits. Some on this board would say he is already making excuses. Instead of saying this guy is being honest and ND can’t recruit 100% of players for a variety of reasons.....

Edited by ND_JACK
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Grabbed these numbers from a NDN post.

 

ND Top 100 recruiting

 

2006 - 6 commits, 20 offers (class ranked #5 in nation)

2007 - 8 commits, 36 offers (class ranked #6 in nation)

2008 - 9 commits, 18 offers (class ranked #2 in nation)

 

23 commits, 74 offers = 31% close rate (2006-2008 )

 

Last Three Years

 

9 commits, 141 offers = 6% close rate (2019-2021)

 

Why is Kelly offering twice as many Top 100 players but signing only about 1/3 as many?

 

A lot of boom and bust with those 23 commits, some never taking a snap at ND. I think NBA super-team culture has a huge impression on the state of CFB recruiting right now. Clemson, Alabama, OSU, Georgia and LSU have been consistently recruiting on an almost unprecedented level. All 5 finished top 5 in 2020 and 2021. 3 of the 5 finished top 5 in 2019 with the 2 missing Clemson at 10th and OSU at 14th. 2006-08 only two teams finished in the top 5 all 3 years and that was USC and Florida. Notre Dame finished in the top 5 twice and no other team did more than once. Talent is wanting to go with talent currently and teams at the top are stacking on talent like never before. Hence Alabama recruiting, rating wise, the best class ever this year.

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