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You gotta have both. Weis could recruit top skill positions on O anyhow, not so much D and he was left with a huge hole on OL after '06. Davie was still able to recruit top 5-10 classes, which also set up TW to start 8-0 his first year on talent alone.

 

Yes I want to get as many top recruits as we can get, who wouldn't. As it stands our offense doesn't excite top QBs, and we don't have a reputation of developing them either. Call me a height supremacist, but I want QBs that are at minimum 6'02 in person and not on paper, who can see routes down the middle of the field. No more midgets. I don't care if they can run or are a statue.

 

Thanks. I thought I was the only one beating to this drum. Like you said, I could care less if he has one wooden leg, he’s got to be able to see over the line for the next qb.

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Easiest way to identify a clueless fan is someone who blames the coach any time their team loses. There was a clear mismatch in talent for anyone with a brain who watched that game today.

 

Anyways, the head coach is responsible for the recruiting that gets the talent. It is telling when the the coach finally says that after 10 years, he realized that he needs to try to get Top 5 classes to compete

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Sorry...I’m at the point where you guys have no idea what your watching or you know nothing about the game.

 

I know plenty about the game. Yes we don't have a one to one ratio of the horses Bama, Clemson, and OSU does. We don't have the horses UGA does either, but miraculously we've played them close twice because Smart isn't much better of a coach than BK. Last year UM curb stomped us with arguably the same equivalent talent, and the Canes did the same in '17. Richt is out of coaching and you'd be hard pressed to find a skunkbear fan who thinks Harbaugh is a top five coach given his results at present.

 

I tire of over-crediting Kelly for being competitive for the first time since Lou. What's his competition?! Davie, a DC with no HC experience who could still get top talent to ND riding Lou's coat tails, but was a terrible gameday coach. He also had to deal with the de-emphasis on football after Lou's exit by Monk etc although. After ND he was a TVcommentator then HC at New Mexico and couldn't do better than that, no longer coaching.

 

TW who was our 11th choice for HC. Was a position coach prior to being HC at Stanford where he had arguably one decent season in a really watered down, pre-Carroll at USC, PAC-10. Was a terrible game day coach and even worse recruiter who preferred the golf course to his HC job, and got fired. Then picked up by UW and went 0-12 with them at one point, no longer coaches football.

 

Then we got Weis, an OC with no HC experience, who also was not our top choice for HC. He could flash his SB rings and talk about his schematic advantage to get top skill position recruits on offense but couldn't get well balanced classes. Turned out to be a blowhard game day coach. Was let go, went to Kansas and didn't do **** there, and no longer coaches.

 

Just how the fudge did Kelly raise the bar in any meaningful way. He got concessions his predecessors didn't have access too, new facilities, etc. To me Kelly is doing exactly what an average/good coach with 30 years experience should be able to do at a blue blood school like ND. His recruiting isnt lazy like TW nor is it generally unbalanced like Weis, he's slightly below Davie riding Lou's success. We can talk different isle BS all we want, but elite players want to play for winners/contenders. Winning cures all ills, winning consistently build programs like Bama, Clemson, and OSU. Beating teams you should beat doesn't generate interest.

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Till ND has equal or better talent on the field as the likes of Ala, OSU, Clem & maybe Georgia, I have to assume it's the players and not the coaching.

 

That said, ND has to find a way to better deal with the obstacles their academic requirements present in order to improve recruiting. Swarbrick needs to be creative in finding ways to help the team without sacrificing standards.

 

I do feel weak areas of the team have potentially better players on the horizon such as CB, DL, WR and RB's. Looking at the current and recent past recruiting, as long as ND has a QB as good or better than Book, they will be in the picture for the CFP.

 

ND is never going to contend for NCs as often as the teams mentioned above. However, outside of those team which leaves a crap load of programs, ND is in better shape. If you are expecting ND to have consistent success like Clem or Ala, you are just torturing yourself.

 

Has Kelly ever been mentioned as a top recruiter?

 

Imagine if a great recruiter became ND's head coach. Even Weis could get better offensive talent since he put way more effort into recruiting than Kelly

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I'm gonna watch it again on DVR but live in person it seems that ND traded blows in the trenches respectfully with Bama which was impressive.

 

ND was really vulnerable on the edge with swing passes and quick throws which makes me think they perhaps stiffened up because the D really schemed up the inside run. Notice when ND tried quick tosses to the edge, bama was there for sure tackles.

 

No answer for #6 on some crossing routes.

 

Offense has a knack for stalling out and not punching the ball in for scores.. Kinda head scratching play calling perhaps?

 

Book is no pocket passing QB. My wife on the first or second drive said wow he's anxious/nervous while watching his feet as he tried to time up some of his throws..

 

You saw what happens when two well coached teams one who has top 15 talent and another that has top 1 talent play each other on a neutral field.

 

I'd say ND overachieved giving their recruiting rankings.

 

Honestly I think if ND had an elite QB they might close the gap on the big boys and look respectable half the time(everything else staying the same), but they will never be Bama or Clemson/OSU until ND can improve on the recruiting front.

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I agree but there’s some stripes that even Swarbrick can’t hide. Even if you lighten academic standards, which I’m not convinced are that hard for athletes even at ND, you still have issues with weather, lack of never ending coeds, a dumpy town, du Lac, etc. it’s at this point, too much for ND to compete at the highest level in today’s game.

 

Ohio state

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Our defense is championship caliber

 

Offense, not so much

 

Our corners are not good. Playing against upper echelon receivers magnifies it but they struggle against any bit of legit speed.

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Also the difference a legit, first round talent at QB makes cannot be underestimated. This is by far Kelly's greatest failure imo.

 

 

Book is a deer in headlights whenever playing an aggressive defense. The receivers also get very little separation which has to improve with the current freshman and incoming class next year. How can a very highly rated receiver like Jordan Johnson not even see the field with the average play ahead of him?

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I'm gonna watch it again on DVR but live in person it seems that ND traded blows in the trenches respectfully with Bama which was impressive.

 

ND was really vulnerable on the edge with swing passes and quick throws which makes me think they perhaps stiffened up because the D really schemed up the inside run. Notice when ND tried quick tosses to the edge, bama was there for sure tackles.

 

No answer for #6 on some crossing routes.

 

Offense has a knack for stalling out and not punching the ball in for scores.. Kinda head scratching play calling perhaps?

 

Book is no pocket passing QB. My wife on the first or second drive said wow he's anxious/nervous while watching his feet as he tried to time up some of his throws..

 

You saw what happens when two well coached teams one who has top 15 talent and another that has top 1 talent play each other on a neutral field.

 

I'd say ND overachieved giving their recruiting rankings.

 

Honestly I think if ND had an elite QB they might close the gap on the big boys and look respectable half the time(everything else staying the same), but they will never be Bama or Clemson/OSU until ND can improve on the recruiting front.

 

JTennant, I'd say this is a pretty accurate assessment, particularly the last few paragraphs.

 

Additionally, as Soko put it: How can a very highly rated receiver like Jordan Johnson not even see the field with the average play ahead of him? It seems like we bring in some highly rated recruits now and then, but then they don't see the field as freshmen. Off the top of my head, Hamilton is the exception to this, though there probably are a few others. Perhaps that might be one of the reasons ND has a hard time getting those 5* recruits?

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Also the difference a legit, first round talent at QB makes cannot be underestimated. This is by far Kelly's greatest failure imo.

 

 

Book is a deer in headlights whenever playing an aggressive defense. The receivers also get very little separation which has to improve with the current freshman and incoming class next year. How can a very highly rated receiver like Jordan Johnson not even see the field with the average play ahead of him?

 

I completely agree on QB. ND has academic limitations on certain position groups - it is what it is. They are never going to consistently match Bama with WR, CB, and DL. What they can excel at is getting great QB, OL, and TE’s. They have done exceptional at two of those three. No excuse for them to not have a 4/5 star QB recruited every year. I really thought Phil was the answer.

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Sorry...I’m at the point where you guys have no idea what your watching or you know nothing about the game.

 

You honestly don't think that a different set of eyes, and someone who is REALISTIC about the talent disparities, wouldn't come up with an offensive gameplan in games where you ARE over-matched in talent, in order to at least give your team a shot at staying close???

 

Firstly, you need to recognize that yes, while you have dramatically increased overall team talent, that you are still more akin to Boise St. taking on goliath when go in to game like last night's. You have to identify that your QB needs to get rid of ball after basically a couple step drop. In plays where you want to go a bit deeper down the field, you need to get your QB on the move right after the snap rather than put him in a static pocket where he's under immediate pressure.

 

You need as much SPEED on the field at one time as possible (guys we had standing on the sidelines.) You need to line up guys in positions where Bama has never seen them on film - sometimes as decoys and sometimes as the focal point of the play.

 

You need to at least take a few shots DEEP down the field - and IMO on early downs - to show Bama you're not one bit afraid of taking those shots. You send your speed guys deep and tell Book to let 'er rip, with the result being either a BIG play completion, free yardage on a PI call, or yes, maybe an INT...but you HAVE to take those shots. You do it at a part of the field where you know Book can get it at least close to the end zone so that if it is picked off, it's no worse than a punt. But if you don't take those shots, you never know. Ryan Day didn't KNOW that Field would complete those bombs last night, but he knew it was worth the calculated risk if he did.

 

You honestly come away from a game like last night's saying to yourself that the gameplan gave us every chance to succeed?? I happen to believe that even with a great gameplan, we still lose that game, but I sure would love to see a game like that and come away thinking "there's nothing else we could've done" to at least keep it close and just maybe pull off the miracle.

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That or hope for the stars to align for one season. We would need a few 3-4 star players to turn into a Will Fuller, and Buchner to be the real deal, and Kyren to stay for his senior year, and some 3-4 star DE to turn into 1st or 2nd round players, and a JOK coming out of nowhere, and 2 Julian Loves for corners, and a free safety who can actually cover and tackle ...... that’s a lot of stars to align for one miracle season.... I also think our offensive scheme needs to change. We are borderline pro style, we need to be more spread with RPO like Bama and Ohio state.

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In the playoff era (since 2014), there have been exactly 4 teams/schools to win titles...Alabama (2, with a likely third this year), Clemson (2), LSU (1) and tOSU (1, with a small chance to make it 2).

 

That's it.

 

Only one other team (besides ND, and the 'big three') has even PLAYED in multiple CFPs...that's Oklahoma with 4 appearances (and the same number of wins as ND - ZERO).

 

We have more appearances than LSU, UGa, MSU, UW, FSU and Oregon.

We have learned that despite a lack of championship wins, Notre Dame is in the midst of a run near the top of College Football.

 

We SHOULD have learned that this is not a coaching deficiency unless you want to lay the blame on the talent gap solely at Brian Kelly's feet and consider the recruiting efforts to be sub-par. ND could have had 12 men on defense last night and STILL would not have stopped Smith and Harris, let alone the rest. The gap in speed was only exceeded by the gap in game breaking ability overall.

 

Whether Alabama slowed down or played it safe in the second half, ND's Defense managed to hold them to a two-year low in scoring output at 31 points, and nearly 3 TDs under their season's average and even THAT was not enough to avoid a blow out feeling loss.

 

However, should the FG in the 2nd quarter not been tipped/missed, and the TD pass in the early 4th not been called back (and subsequently turned over on downs), well then you're looking a game that despite the appearances and short comings laid bare COULD have ended on a despertion pass into the endzone to tie. OF COURSE that is revisionist history, and OF COURSE Alabama may have played entirely differently in the second half if they were really getting pressed...but ND came out in the second half and got a stop to start the half...at 21-7 at the time, it really felt like we had squandered our chances at the end of the half to draw within 21-10 or even 21-14...the game was showing off the mismatches Alabama held over our secondary and in limiting our WRs, BUT there is was...having the ball in the second half with a chance to pull within a score and make it interesting...

 

When Brian Kelly says we "made progress"...he is right. In 2012 (42-14), it was over at the end of the first quarter, but we were never even close to having a chance...same thing in 2018 (30-3), where a 2nd quarter blitzkrieg ended the game. It was not a massive leap forward and it does not change the fact that we are not in the conversation among the big three at the moment, but we are solidly in the tier of teams that can start a season with a legitimate chance to make a playoff.

 

Those final steps from getting there to competing down to the final drive, to winning one to winning two games is the new reality and we do not currently have the firepower to do so....but neither do about 127 other D1 schools and programs...

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In the playoff era (since 2014), there have been exactly 4 teams/schools to win titles...Alabama (2, with a likely third this year), Clemson (2), LSU (1) and tOSU (1, with a small chance to make it 2).

 

That's it.

 

Only one other team (besides ND, and the 'big three') has even PLAYED in multiple CFPs...that's Oklahoma with 4 appearances (and the same number of wins as ND - ZERO).

 

We have more appearances than LSU, UGa, MSU, UW, FSU and Oregon.

We have learned that despite a lack of championship wins, Notre Dame is in the midst of a run near the top of College Football.

 

We SHOULD have learned that this is not a coaching deficiency unless you want to lay the blame on the talent gap solely at Brian Kelly's feet and consider the recruiting efforts to be sub-par. ND could have had 12 men on defense last night and STILL would not have stopped Smith and Harris, let alone the rest. The gap in speed was only exceeded by the gap in game breaking ability overall.

 

Whether Alabama slowed down or played it safe in the second half, ND's Defense managed to hold them to a two-year low in scoring output at 31 points, and nearly 3 TDs under their season's average and even THAT was not enough to avoid a blow out feeling loss.

 

However, should the FG in the 2nd quarter not been tipped/missed, and the TD pass in the early 4th not been called back (and subsequently turned over on downs), well then you're looking a game that despite the appearances and short comings laid bare COULD have ended on a despertion pass into the endzone to tie. OF COURSE that is revisionist history, and OF COURSE Alabama may have played entirely differently in the second half if they were really getting pressed...but ND came out in the second half and got a stop to start the half...at 21-7 at the time, it really felt like we had squandered our chances at the end of the half to draw within 21-10 or even 21-14...the game was showing off the mismatches Alabama held over our secondary and in limiting our WRs, BUT there is was...having the ball in the second half with a chance to pull within a score and make it interesting...

 

When Brian Kelly says we "made progress"...he is right. In 2012 (42-14), it was over at the end of the first quarter, but we were never even close to having a chance...same thing in 2018 (30-3), where a 2nd quarter blitzkrieg ended the game. It was not a massive leap forward and it does not change the fact that we are not in the conversation among the big three at the moment, but we are solidly in the tier of teams that can start a season with a legitimate chance to make a playoff.

 

Those final steps from getting there to competing down to the final drive, to winning one to winning two games is the new reality and we do not currently have the firepower to do so....but neither do about 127 other D1 schools and programs...

 

Nice post.

I agree.

Been through the coaching search and misery before. No guarantees of finding someone better. Texas just fired another coach and would probably love to have Mack Brown back now.

Maybe Kelly doesn’t work as hard on recruiting as he could. None of us can tell. We’re not in the rooms or on the phones.

I’d love to win a big game, just like every passionate ND fan including each person posting in this thread.

I’m sad but happy at the same time. Proud of what ND accomplished this year and looking forward to what comes next.

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Also the difference a legit, first round talent at QB makes cannot be underestimated. This is by far Kelly's greatest failure imo.

 

 

Book is a deer in headlights whenever playing an aggressive defense. The receivers also get very little separation which has to improve with the current freshman and incoming class next year. How can a very highly rated receiver like Jordan Johnson not even see the field with the average play ahead of him?

 

Fair point. QB play is not up to snuff and while I respect Book for overachieving beyond what we all thought possible, his arm isn't strong enough to stretch the field. Look at what Fields did to Clemson last night, with some busted ribs. Bama never had to worry about getting beat deep and could compress the field, shrinking the throwing windows on Intermediate Routes.

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Nice post.

I agree.

Been through the coaching search and misery before. No guarantees of finding someone better. Texas just fired another coach and would probably love to have Mack Brown back now.

Maybe Kelly doesn’t work as hard on recruiting as he could. None of us can tell. We’re not in the rooms or on the phones.

I’d love to win a big game, just like every passionate ND fan including each person posting in this thread.

I’m sad but happy at the same time. Proud of what ND accomplished this year and looking forward to what comes next.

 

I'm happy with how far ND has come in the last decade, but I'm not satisfied, nobody should be. I do not accept that ND will never win a title again, they're getting closer every year, but fans do not want to accept that it's a long haul.

 

I have not attachment to Kelly, and I'm not worried about my ego when it comes to sticking up for Kelly. I truly believe he's the best option to lead the Program.

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I'm happy with how far ND has come in the last decade, but I'm not satisfied, nobody should be. I do not accept that ND will never win a title again, they're getting closer every year, but fans do not want to accept that it's a long haul.

 

I have not attachment to Kelly, and I'm not worried about my ego when it comes to sticking up for Kelly. I truly believe he's the best option to lead the Program.

 

Cheers to most of that.

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I find it frustrating that there are complaints about the best ND coach since Holtz. Having ND be a legit final four team every year is amazing. I want better of course but that is a long way from where the team was pre-Kelly.

 

My only potential complaint about BK would be his direct efforts with recruiting. Maybe Kelly/Swarbrick need to reevaluate Kelly's alum commitments to place more focus on screen/face time with 4 / 5 star recruits.

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-Kelly is a big step behind Dabo/Saban and gets exposed more when there is extra prep time.

 

-Conservative/scared coming out of the tunnel and they called plays the same way.

 

-ND needs an elite qb and more speed at WR/CB.

 

I would have to agree with this totally. ND needs an elite qb.

Nothing against Book, I enjoyed watching him play.

This is one of the best comments. I couldn't agree more.

Also stop blaming Kelley he is doing fantastic for what he has to work with. Cold, Academics, and City.

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