Jump to content

****THE Official IRISH vs. BAMA Game Day Thread***


Recommended Posts

Some say it’s negativity and I’m not a “real fan”. Born and raised Notre Dame...I bleed for the Irish but get tired of those groups content with just winning. Content with Kelly turning the Team around by just going to Bowl Games, not winning the games that actually count. The “next year will be it” or “it’s a building year” every year gets old...does anyone think Alabama says: “Ahhhh, there will be next year”. Hell no, they go for it EVERY Season. At this point, we will never win another Championship with Kelly or the Administrations contentment with how things are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 244
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

How many turning points does Kelly need? How many blow out losses to teams who consistently recruit and get 5 star talent do they need to see? While we recruit projects and turn them into good players they recruit 5 stars and build them into The 14-15 point losses we eat every year. We will never win until we can get players who give you those extra 15-20 points to put it out of reach. This is just wash, rinse, repeat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some say it’s negativity and I’m not a “real fan”. Born and raised Notre Dame...I bleed for the Irish but get tired of those groups content with just winning. Content with Kelly turning the Team around by just going to Bowl Games, not winning the games that actually count. The “next year will be it” or “it’s a building year” every year gets old...does anyone think Alabama says: “Ahhhh, there will be next year”. Hell no, they go for it EVERY Season. At this point, we will never win another Championship with Kelly or the Administrations contentment with how things are.

Finegan, first of all I say screw that "not a real fan" bullshit. I'm not an alumnus but I've been a fan of the Irish since I was a little kid in the early to mid 90s. I missed the glory years, a frontrunner clearly I am not lol. I've only recently started to participate on this board more regularly and I have noticed something over the past few months. Although I have only noticed it a little bit on here, I have noticed it pretty heavily on Irish Envy and I've seen it for years in a lot of comments on the football team's FB and IG posts.

 

I think the problem is those fans are probably alumni and they seem to care more about "the elite academic standards" of the school and the football team than they care about the football team just winning. They sound like the smug "elitist" ND fans that most other fans can't stand about ND. Like I said, I have been a fan for a long time, even I can't stand the way they sound and talk about the school. They tend to come off as if they're better then others because the school has better academic standards and they're ok with the football team just winning a bunch of games every season but never truly being in that next echelon of football teams. That's fine, to each their own.

 

Then there are the fans of the football team, like me. Don't get me wrong, a lot of these fans are probably alumni as well, they're just not the douchey ones who think they're better than everyone else because of academic standards. We realize that the team isn't going to get much better than currently constructed because said standards are a large part of the equation that make it harder to recruit the players needed to boost the program to the next level.

 

Its a well beaten drum. Fans on both sides of the aisle know what the problem is and how to fix it. Some are willing to do it for football, some are not willing to do it because of academics. I was listening to some SiriusXM college football talk show on my drive home from work yesterday and they were discussing the admissions standards between the 4 CFP schools. I don't recall actual numbers they stated but it was something like Alabama 64-67%, OSU/Clemson both 47-50%, ND 17%. That tells you almost everything you need to know about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nygolden, great point, but it is even harder than that admission rate. The reason is that the ND players must choose an actual rigorous academic field which I respect. Michigan is by rankings a better school than ND overall. Hell, even Miami is consistently rated a top school. However, Michigan players are primarily enrolled in “kinesiology” aka working out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watching the ESPN college game day panel, all saying what I have been. Even these guys think you people criticizing Kelly are ridiculous.

 

Here is my stance on this subject. I think BK is a great coach. I just think he has done all he can do with what he has been given. I'd love to see what he can do with a crop of talent that is at least somewhat close to what Saban and Dabo work with. Hell, who knows if even they could do more with what Kelly has to work with. If BK was coaching Alabama and Saban was coaching ND and rosters remained the same I doubt there is much difference in the outcome.

I think this is a twofold problem. Kelly is a great coach but he is not the type of coach that the elite talent is flocking to play for. Academic standards or not. If the standards were dropped, would those players want to come play for Kelly? If Dabo or Saban were coaching the Irish with the standards, would players still flock to them, if they were able to get in? If Kelly was in Tuscaloosa or Clemson, would those players flock to him? The world may never know.

Edited by NYGoldenDomer
typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

between the 4 CFP schools. I don't recall actual numbers they stated but it was something like Alabama 64-67%, OSU/Clemson both 47-50%, ND 17%. That tells you almost everything you need to know about it.

 

Are these the % of high school players that qualify for these schools? Just curious on the context. It makes sense of that is the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is my stance on this subject. I think BK is a great coach. I just think he has done all he can do with what he has been given. I'd love to see what he can do with a crop of talent that is at least somewhat close to what Saban and Dabo work with. Hell, who knows if even they could do more with what Kelly has to work with. If BK was coaching Alabama and Saban was coaching ND and rosters remained the same I doubt there is much difference in the outcome.

I think this is a twofold problem. Kelly is a great coach but he is not the type of coach that the elite talent is flocking to play for. Academic standards or not. If the standards were dropped, would those players want to come play for Kelly? If Dabo or Saban were coaching the Irish with the standards, would players still flock to them, if they were able to get it? If Kelly was in Tuscaloosa or Clemson, would those players flock to him? The world may never know.

 

The thing I think would be different between Saban being here and Kelly is Saban wouldn’t care about hiring his friends, and would have pushed his assistants harder on the recruiting trail from day one. So while I don’t think we would have won a natty, I think we would have been damn close. Saban would have never had a 4-8 stinker and wouldn’t settle for mediocrity ever.. he also completely changed his offense from his earlier days. Kelly needs to do that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nygolden, great point, but it is even harder than that admission rate. The reason is that the ND players must choose an actual rigorous academic field which I respect. Michigan is by rankings a better school than ND overall. Hell, even Miami is consistently rated a top school. However, Michigan players are primarily enrolled in “kinesiology” aka working out.

 

I get that. But that is what the school is about. Its academics. I don't know the numbers, nor do I care enough to look them up, but if those players from the other schools are passing their "Kinesiology" with a 4.0 then who gives a flying ****? I sure don't. I don't agree with schools letting their athletes play college student with a basket weaving degree or "gender studies" but if these kids want to major in and receive their degree in kinesiology and parlay that into some kind of physical therapist job if they don't make the NFL then good for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If BK was coaching Alabama and Saban was coaching ND and rosters remained the same I doubt there is much difference in the outcome.

 

I don't think it's that easy. If we're talking strictly coaching, then you have to factor in the entire staffs. Would Sark get more out of the talent we have? Would he put all the same people in the same spots, or would he possibly find a way to utilize guys differently based on skill sets? Would Tommy get the same out of Bama's talent? Would our receivers look different (better) coached by their WR's coach? Would our D-backs be coached differently (again, better). Would in-game adjustments happen quicker with Saban & staff? etc etc........

 

I just have a feeling if we switched entire staffs w/the same rosters, we would look more like we belong in games like that, and at least put enough points on the board to have you more leaning on the edge of your seat much of the game rather than feeling it's over 10 minutes in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

between the 4 CFP schools. I don't recall actual numbers they stated but it was something like Alabama 64-67%, OSU/Clemson both 47-50%, ND 17%. That tells you almost everything you need to know about it.

 

Are these the % of high school players that qualify for these schools? Just curious on the context. It makes sense of that is the case.

 

Apologies I should have been a little more clear about that. I missed the beginning of the segment, all I heard them say was admissions percentage. So yes I believe this was the admissions standards for high school kids.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get that. But that is what the school is about. Its academics. I don't know the numbers, nor do I care enough to look them up, but if those players from the other schools are passing their "Kinesiology" with a 4.0 then who gives a flying ****? I sure don't. I don't agree with schools letting their athletes play college student with a basket weaving degree or "gender studies" but if these kids want to major in and receive their degree in kinesiology and parlay that into some kind of physical therapist job if they don't make the NFL then good for them.

 

Then why would you be miserable and root for ND? Lol. If it isn’t about being at a higher standard, might as well root for Bama and be happy every year. By all accounts, other than the bag man, Saban runs a clean program. Clemson has a very high graduation rate indicating Dabo cares about his players getting their degrees. The difference is ND has the Highest grad rate AND their players are not getting exercise degrees.

Edited by Jim2Dokes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think it's that easy. If we're talking strictly coaching, then you have to factor in the entire staffs. Would Sark get more out of the talent we have? Would he put all the same people in the same spots, or would he possibly find a way to utilize guys differently based on skill sets? Would Tommy get the same out of Bama's talent? Would our receivers look different (better) coached by their WR's coach? Would our D-backs be coached differently (again, better). Would in-game adjustments happen quicker with Saban & staff? etc etc........

 

I just have a feeling if we switched entire staffs w/the same rosters, we would look more like we belong in games like that, and at least put enough points on the board to have you more leaning on the edge of your seat much of the game rather than feeling it's over 10 minutes in.

 

I agree. I am just throwing my hat in the ring for the Kelly discussion. I think you're greatly expanding it, while changing my argument. All things equal, flipping the head coaches. Its a pointless argument to make because it is moot, it'll never happen. But its the only way the two camps will ever move past the Kelly isn't good enough conversation.

Edited by NYGoldenDomer
typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then why would you be miserable and root for ND? Lol. If it isn’t about being at a higher standard, might as well root for Bama and be happy every year.

 

Because, personally, I am not a frontrunner. I don't flip teams because my teams aren't winning championships. I grew up with the Irish, I will die with the Irish. Same with the Rangers, Yankees, and Giants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some say it’s negativity and I’m not a “real fan”. Born and raised Notre Dame...I bleed for the Irish but get tired of those groups content with just winning. Content with Kelly turning the Team around by just going to Bowl Games, not winning the games that actually count. The “next year will be it” or “it’s a building year” every year gets old...does anyone think Alabama says: “Ahhhh, there will be next year”. Hell no, they go for it EVERY Season. At this point, we will never win another Championship with Kelly or the Administrations contentment with how things are.

 

Nobody is "content" but you have to be realistic and understand it's a long process to even compete with these programs. ND is NEVER going to be Bama, why is that so hard to grasp? They can't recruit morons and kids using CF to get to the NFL, don't want to go to class.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree, the ND degree and education is excellent. But we can’t act like if you go to Bama and don’t make the nfl then you are flipping burgers... this may be true for some, but most of the time the alumni help these guys far after their playing careers. Especially if they won.

 

So what? You want ND to let in kids who can barely read. And that's not an exaggeration, we've all seen Last Chance U, those kids all end up in the SEC for a reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is my stance on this subject. I think BK is a great coach. I just think he has done all he can do with what he has been given. I'd love to see what he can do with a crop of talent that is at least somewhat close to what Saban and Dabo work with. Hell, who knows if even they could do more with what Kelly has to work with. If BK was coaching Alabama and Saban was coaching ND and rosters remained the same I doubt there is much difference in the outcome.

I think this is a twofold problem. Kelly is a great coach but he is not the type of coach that the elite talent is flocking to play for. Academic standards or not. If the standards were dropped, would those players want to come play for Kelly? If Dabo or Saban were coaching the Irish with the standards, would players still flock to them, if they were able to get it? If Kelly was in Tuscaloosa or Clemson, would those players flock to him? The world may never know.

 

The only difference is ND would've lost a closer game. And there's a difference bw taking a kid who might be on the borderline of admissions and wants to work hard in the classroom (Tony Rice) and a kid who just doesn't give a f**k about school and doesn't want to go to Class.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only difference is ND would've lost a closer game.

That is my guess too. Which leads me to believe that this mess isn't solely on Kelly.

And there's a difference bw taking a kid who might be on the borderline of admissions and wants to work hard in the classroom (Tony Rice) and a kid who just doesn't give a f**k about school and doesn't want to go to Class.

Cool...? I never said I want the second type of kid. Thanks for contributing though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ya know I would love to see ND win big games in the post season. I would love for them to at least make the games close and to not hear my friends, who cheer for opposing teams, keep saying ND doesn’t belong or is always overrated. I would also enjoy if ND could do all that while maintaining the purity of the student athlete at an top rated school academically. ND has had success with this model and it will continue.

 

It is all perspective on what that success is.

 

In the past 23 years (pretty much my entire adult life) during the BCS and CFP eras there has been 60 spots in the post season to compete for a championship. Those 60 spots have only been filled by 18 of the current 130 schools. Of those 18 schools only 12 have won it all.

 

Alabama 9 (BCS 3 / CFP 6) Champion 5* (BCS 3 / CFP 2)

Ohio State 7 (BCS 3 / CFP 4) Champion 2* (BCS 1 / CFP 1)

Oklahoma 8 (BCS 4/ CFP 4) Champion 1(BCS 1 / CFP 0)

Clemson 6 (BCS 0 / CFP 6) Champion 2 (BCS 0 / CFP 2)

Florida State 5 (BCS 4 / CFP 1) Champion 2 (BCS 2/ CFP 0)

LSU 4 (BCS 3 / CFP 1) Champion 3 (BCS 2 / CFP 1)

Notre Dame 3 (BCS 1 / CFP 2)

Oregon 2 (BCS 1 / CFP 1)

Florida 2 (BCS 2 / CFP 0) Champion 2 (BCS 2 / CFP 0)

Auburn 2 (BCS 2 / CFP 0) Champion 1 (BCS 1 / CFP 0)

Texas 2 (BCS 2 / CFP 0) Champion 1 (BCS 1 / CFP 0)

USC 2 (BCS 2 / CFP 0) Champion 1 (BCS 1 / CFP 0)

Miami 2 (BCS 2 / CFP 0) Champion 1 (BCS 1 / CFP 0)

Virginia Tech 1 (BCS 1 / CFP 0)

Washington 1 (BCS 0 / CFP 1)

Michigan State 1 (BCS 0 / CFP 1)

Georgia 1 (BCS 0 / CFP 1)

Tennessee 1 (BCS 1 / CFP 0) Champion 1 (BCS 1 / CFP 0)

 

Just going off competing for a chance ND is #7 in the past 23 years and if you factor in winning it all they are at least a Top 15 team. Is that what the coaches, players, admin, alumni, and fans should accept as the goal? No of course not but in the larger sense of success this team has had success comparatively.

 

I see the school at a crossroads after the ‘24 season when they will likely be searching for a new coach. Will they continue to accept competing for the top spot occasionally while clinging to their academic standards of what a student athlete should be or will they pivot to a business model of competing with the football factories year in and year out by carving out the a subset of standards for the football team IOT win at all costs.

 

I would prefer the former and with some closer games when they do make it to playoffs. Top 7-18 out of 130 teams for a quarter century isn’t great but it is not bad either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...