Jump to content

ND just had two worst recruiting classes since Willingham


jbrown_9999
 Share

Recommended Posts

Per 247

 

But I guess we should glad that BK finally thinks that he might be able to recruit a Top 5 class again.

 

2005 – 39

2006 – 5

2007 – 6

2008 – 2

2009 – 15

2010 – 15

2011 – 9

2012 – 17

2013 – 5

2014 – 11

2015 – 13

2016 – 15

2017 – 10

2018 – 10

2019 – 16

2020 – 16

 

(Borrowed from ndn)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meh. The problem is that you can skew statistics/rankings any way you want. Using the same source, ND had the #8 recruiting class (not very far from #5) if you look at the average player rating. The overall score was lower because of such a small class - 17 while most schools at 21-26.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meh. The problem is that you can skew statistics/rankings any way you want. Using the same source, ND had the #8 recruiting class (not very far from #5) if you look at the average player rating. The overall score was lower because of such a small class - 17 while most schools at 21-26.

 

Same Bat time, same Bat Channel.

 

Same discussion as maybe a month ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meh. The problem is that you can skew statistics/rankings any way you want. Using the same source, ND had the #8 recruiting class (not very far from #5) if you look at the average player rating. The overall score was lower because of such a small class - 17 while most schools at 21-26.

 

Folks have said that Kelly is recruiting better than ever. The reality is that he just had his worst two years of combined recruiting. He might be getting quality but you also need quantity.

 

While there is always optimism that "next year's" class will be Top 10, Kelly is now recruiting players who may graduate after he retires. Assuming that BK coaches four more seasons, his ability to win a NC is pretty dependent upon the talent he has already signed along with the 2021 class.

 

Given that he has not demonstrated an ability to beat teams with better talent, as an ND fan, I now hope that he decides that he needs to prepare his team better for big games and perhaps accept that his job should include motivating his players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Folks have said that Kelly is recruiting better than ever. The reality is that he just had his worst two years of combined recruiting. He might be getting quality but you also need quantity.

 

.

 

I mean, you can only do that here at ND if you refuse all seniors from returning for their 5th year, and you start kicking guys out or convincing them to transfer each year. Otherwise, you can't have "quantity" every year and still keep all the guys progressing towards degree and fit under 85, while still signing 22-25 guys every year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean, you can only do that here at ND if you refuse all seniors from returning for their 5th year, and you start kicking guys out or convincing them to transfer each year. Otherwise, you can't have "quantity" every year and still keep all the guys progressing towards degree and fit under 85, while still signing 22-25 guys every year.

 

You can't use facts when responding to a jbrown post about how awful BK is at "insert topic here".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Per 247

 

But I guess we should glad that BK finally thinks that he might be able to recruit a Top 5 class again.

 

2005 – 39

2006 – 5

2007 – 6

2008 – 2

2009 – 15

2010 – 15

2011 – 9

2012 – 17

2013 – 5

2014 – 11

2015 – 13

2016 – 15

2017 – 10

2018 – 10

2019 – 16

2020 – 16

 

(Borrowed from ndn)

 

The measure of Willingham's classes is inaccurate... When he had 25 schollies to give for two years, he opted to only take about 15 members in each class, if that... Apples to Oranges, here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meh. The problem is that you can skew statistics/rankings any way you want. Using the same source, ND had the #8 recruiting class (not very far from #5) if you look at the average player rating. The overall score was lower because of such a small class - 17 while most schools at 21-26.

 

I thought something was off. They were borderline top 10 in most rankings, which is something that needs to get better, but they weren’t as bad as last yr, no way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The measure of Willingham's classes is inaccurate... When he had 25 schollies to give for two years, he opted to only take about 15 members in each class, if that... Apples to Oranges, here.

 

He was so bad, you have to wonder if the pressure would’ve been ratcheted up even earlier if we had all the same media platforms and recruiting cvg we have now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An interesting way to look at this just for reference. Pretend for a second Bartleson was never arrested and ND lands one more lower 4 star guy. That puts this specific class from 16th to 9th. That's how good the remaining 17 guys are including the LS. 2 five stars, one on rivals one on 247 and 247 composite. 5 top 100 guys between the two sites. Two of the highest ranked non OL in the Kelly era in Johnson and Mayer.

 

Not to mention they added two grad transfers - one with a ton of college production and the other a former top 100 guy as well. There are more factors in play than just a simple class ranking. In fact, this almost exactly how Clemson's classes looked a few years back before these past few cycles.

 

If you wanna argue quantity is important that is fine, because it absolutely is and plays a role in overall rankings (I would argue too much of a role), but you also have to be cognizant of the 85 man scholly limit for the 2020 season and beyond. This isn't an example of the staff not landing a 22 to man class or something when they wanted to. Not every recruiting class is created equal. Some schools need 25 guys in a class while others don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An interesting way to look at this just for reference. Pretend for a second Bartleson was never arrested and ND lands one more lower 4 star guy. That puts this specific class from 16th to 9th. That's how good the remaining 17 guys are including the LS. 2 five stars, one on rivals one on 247 and 247 composite. 5 top 100 guys between the two sites. Two of the highest ranked non OL in the Kelly era in Johnson and Mayer.

 

Not to mention they added two grad transfers - one with a ton of college production and the other a former top 100 guy as well. There are more factors in play than just a simple class ranking. In fact, this almost exactly how Clemson's classes looked a few years back before these past few cycles.

 

If you wanna argue quantity is important that is fine, because it absolutely is and plays a role in overall rankings (I would argue too much of a role), but you also have to be cognizant of the 85 man scholly limit for the 2020 season and beyond. This isn't an example of the staff not landing a 22 to man class or something when they wanted to. Not every recruiting class is created equal. Some schools need 25 guys in a class while others don't.

 

added to that we've been in that 11-16 range for like 5 years and that usually is a difference of about 1 player.

 

if it was 11-40 i'd be concerned

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why make excuses for the guy? Even he admits this has been a weakness

 

Because while Kelly may not have had his BEST class in terms of rankings, we’re doing REALLY well in recruiting and getting the right guys we need on the field. Kelly’s classes smoke anything Ty and Charlie put together, and I’d say Charlie wasn’t a bad recruiter, but he still had trouble finding the right pieces or speed. A lot of times, Charlie recruited highly rated guys who had already hit their ceilings in high school. BK does a good job of keeping the cupboard relatively full, especially with guys who are generally athletic.

 

We’re doing fine. We can definitely do better, but I don’t even follow recruiting that much anymore because we’re in such exponentially better shape than we were before Kelly got here. Recruiting is actually boring these days without hanging on to determine whether we’re going to hold on to our one four star recruit...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ND just signed a really small class of 18 commits (17 with the loss of Bartleson). Of those 17 commits, 4 are Top 100 and 9 are Top 250. Here's how that compares to the past four classes.

 

Rankings (247 Composite)

 

2020: 4 Top 100, 9 Top 250 (18/17 commits)

2019: 2 Top 100, 10 Top 250 (22 commits)

2018: 5 Top 100, 8 Top 250 (27 commits)

2017: 3 Top 100, 9 Top 250 (21 commits)

2016: 2 Top 100, 7 Top 250 (23 commits)

 

So, in comparison, ND signed the 2nd most Top 100 commits and Top 250 commits in the last 5 classes, with far fewer commits.

 

Now, this is not to say ND is lighting it up in recruiting. ND needs to do better to truly compete for a National Championship. They need to land guys like Jalen McMillan, Clark Phillips, Lathan Ransom, etc. They really do need to be close to Top 5 to compete with the elites. But it's important to realize that ND will sign another small class in 2021 (around 20 commits), and that will hurt their overall ranking because the schools with the top classes all have around 24/25 commits. For the 2020 class, if you rank based on average player rating, ND is currently #9 and should stay there after NSD next Wednesday. They need to do better, but they are getting in some high end talent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meh. The problem is that you can skew statistics/rankings any way you want. Using the same source, ND had the #8 recruiting class (not very far from #5) if you look at the average player rating. The overall score was lower because of such a small class - 17 while most schools at 21-26.

 

Agree. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ND just signed a really small class of 18 commits (17 with the loss of Bartleson). Of those 17 commits, 4 are Top 100 and 9 are Top 250. Here's how that compares to the past four classes.

 

Rankings (247 Composite)

 

2020: 4 Top 100, 9 Top 250 (18/17 commits)

2019: 2 Top 100, 10 Top 250 (22 commits)

2018: 5 Top 100, 8 Top 250 (27 commits)

2017: 3 Top 100, 9 Top 250 (21 commits)

2016: 2 Top 100, 7 Top 250 (23 commits)

 

So, in comparison, ND signed the 2nd most Top 100 commits and Top 250 commits in the last 5 classes, with far fewer commits.

 

Now, this is not to say ND is lighting it up in recruiting. ND needs to do better to truly compete for a National Championship. They need to land guys like Jalen McMillan, Clark Phillips, Lathan Ransom, etc. They really do need to be close to Top 5 to compete with the elites. But it's important to realize that ND will sign another small class in 2021 (around 20 commits), and that will hurt their overall ranking because the schools with the top classes all have around 24/25 commits. For the 2020 class, if you rank based on average player rating, ND is currently #9 and should stay there after NSD next Wednesday. They need to do better, but they are getting in some high end talent.

 

 

Agree. I want as many top 100 kids as you can get. That’s where you make your money.

Anyways, I think ND is closer than most people think in terms of talent. Sure we aren’t lighting up top 10 classes(which we should), but we have something most of the top doesn’t. That’s a lot of guys with experience returning most years. That’s somewhat comparable to getting top talent. What’s hurting Nd the most is not having playmakers at this point. Or simply athletes at skill positions. We need one at corner, two at wideout, and one at running back. Having a legit four star Qb would help also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree. I want as many top 100 kids as you can get. That’s where you make your money.

Anyways, I think ND is closer than most people think in terms of talent. Sure we aren’t lighting up top 10 classes(which we should), but we have something most of the top doesn’t. That’s a lot of guys with experience returning most years. That’s somewhat comparable to getting top talent. What’s hurting Nd the most is not having playmakers at this point. Or simply athletes at skill positions. We need one at corner, two at wideout, and one at running back. Having a legit four star Qb would help also.

 

Again, ND will never be able to match the depth of a Clemson, OSU, Bama, but they MIGHT (not there yet) be able to replicate similar talent at key positions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because while Kelly may not have had his BEST class in terms of rankings, we’re doing REALLY well in recruiting and getting the right guys we need on the field. Kelly’s classes smoke anything Ty and Charlie put together, and I’d say Charlie wasn’t a bad recruiter, but he still had trouble finding the right pieces or speed. A lot of times, Charlie recruited highly rated guys who had already hit their ceilings in high school. BK does a good job of keeping the cupboard relatively full, especially with guys who are generally athletic.

 

We’re doing fine. We can definitely do better, but I don’t even follow recruiting that much anymore because we’re in such exponentially better shape than we were before Kelly got here. Recruiting is actually boring these days without hanging on to determine whether we’re going to hold on to our one four star recruit...

 

It’s weird to read a sensible post like this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An interesting way to look at this just for reference. Pretend for a second Bartleson was never arrested and ND lands one more lower 4 star guy. That puts this specific class from 16th to 9th. That's how good the remaining 17 guys are including the LS. 2 five stars, one on rivals one on 247 and 247 composite. 5 top 100 guys between the two sites. Two of the highest ranked non OL in the Kelly era in Johnson and Mayer.

 

Not to mention they added two grad transfers - one with a ton of college production and the other a former top 100 guy as well. There are more factors in play than just a simple class ranking. In fact, this almost exactly how Clemson's classes looked a few years back before these past few cycles.

 

If you wanna argue quantity is important that is fine, because it absolutely is and plays a role in overall rankings (I would argue too much of a role), but you also have to be cognizant of the 85 man scholly limit for the 2020 season and beyond. This isn't an example of the staff not landing a 22 to man class or something when they wanted to. Not every recruiting class is created equal. Some schools need 25 guys in a class while others don't.

 

Regardless of individual talent, the impact of this recruiting class is going to be muted to some degree due to it only having 16 position players.

 

I realize that this is due to needing to manage to the 85 person roster as well as deciding to accept two transfers as well inviting fifth years back.

 

If BK wants to be able to compete for a NC, he is going to need do more than have Top 10 to Top 20 classes though. He is going to need to have at least one Top 10 class and perhaps a Top 5 class. It's pretty obvious but, statistically, it has been shown that the schools with the highest percent of Five and Four stars, do the best in terms of making the CFP.

 

I am not convinced that BK is doing everything possible to maximize his recruiting. There was just a story about Cameron Martinez, four star from Michigan. Maybe BK did not really want him as a recruit but while Ohio State's head coach Ryan Day went to watch his basketball game, BK did not go but sent Polian instead. Martinez confirmed his verbal commitment to Ohio St and mentioned Day's visit as a factor. Seems that Day outworked Kelly.

 

But perhaps Kelly spent his time recruiting a different four star to replace Bartleson. We will see who signs with ND next Wednesday.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...