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Anyone catch what he said? Not that it matters, since I blocked him for good reason.

 

Guy claims there was proof; then provides none while running from the conversation when asked to show it.

 

I guess if one doesn't like the facts or conversation, blocking or running-away is the way to go. Next step will be to burn some books. Just intellectually lazy or dishonest IMO...I expected better.

 

Good luck man.

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Sydney Powell has stated several times that she has a Dominion worker willing to testify and that there is unequivocal proof that Hammer/Scorecard system was used during this election.

 

Obviously this claim is pretty serious in its nature. She also states that several government entities are involved and that she has the proof.

 

Having read what she stated, I'm probably going to consider that with any government statements of "no fraud here."

 

But this all hinges on what she knows--if anything--and what she can prove. She has a pretty solid reputation around the capital (among both parties) and she's known for her methodical approach of delivering facts.

 

This is getting very interesting. And that's fine if you disagree with any of this. I'm just repeating what has been stated.

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Sydney Powell has stated several times that she has a Dominion worker willing to testify and that there is unequivocal proof that Hammer/Scorecard system was used during this election.

 

Obviously this claim is pretty serious in its nature. She also states that several government entities are involved and that she has the proof.

 

Having read what she stated, I'm probably going to consider that with any government statements of "no fraud here."

 

But this all hinges on what she knows--if anything--and what she can prove. She has a pretty solid reputation around the capital (among both parties) and she's known for her methodical approach of delivering facts.

 

This is getting very interesting. And that's fine if you disagree with any of this. I'm just repeating what has been stated.

 

She is sounding very informed, armed with documentation, and confident in her ability to back-up her claims.

Why wouldn't the New York Times at least look at this? The hardware and software involved, if nothing else, would make for an interesting story.

She's claiming the software was used on 3% of the votes in Michigan. If true, that would be meaningful.

 

Why do so many people want to rush this? Shouldn't we give time to investigate? This is every bit as important as investigating claims against Kavanagh and Trump.

Truly, if ANY of what Powell is claiming turns out to be true, our system is actually tragically flawed. And that is worth knowing, at least IMHO.

She might not have the goods, but she sure does sound confident.

 

I do get tired of the 'Nothing to see here folks, move along" discussion. Maybe there is nothing to see. But the claims are meaningful, indeed damning, if they are true.

 

One source claiming something happened does not make it so. Several sources claiming something didn't happen also does not make that so.

 

The stakes are too high to simply dismiss.

Edited by Kelly Gruene
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i just dont get how anyone who thinks can still gobble up these ridiculous claims....

 

i am still waiting for the 5 million fake votes from 2016 Trump claimed were cast by illegals that changed the popular vote to clinton....a person might conclude why would a normal person make up a fake claim like this if he didnt have strong evidence.. guess what...Trump is not a normal person,,,,Trump set up a commission led by kris kobach,,,,kobach is a uber strong conservative to some...and a right wing hack to many...nonetheless even he after 2 years of investigating found NO voter fraud.

 

What does that tell us....using a teaspoon of logic it tells me Trump made this up out of thin air. as he does so much..and we spent millions chasing not a wild goose but an imaginary goose.

 

But apparently that was all just trump being trump and has no bearing on todays situation....but really come on...is anyone surprised trump has made all these claims about voter fraud....and his minions echo it and defend it as solid as steel....

 

Im still looking for Trumps investigators out here in hawaii..they have found damming evidence obama was born in kenya...hey he looked us all in the eye and told us that.... "believe me"....this guy has been full of S^%T my entire life...and he will never change,

 

So now its dominion voting systems....Listen to Rudy....( hey i would get more honest info from BORAT!).....OAN,,,Sydney Powell...Lou Dobbs....yea the real purveyors of truth justice and the american way....

 

This is just sad...the department of homeland security,,,the cybersecurity division...all have concluded no votes were changed by any voting system..these are trumps own government agencies....

 

So now the head of election security at homeland security is getting fired for saying this was the most secure election in american history...Trump doesnt want to hear that...he wants to hear Sydney Powell tell him the CIA is up to their neck in changing votes....my god man,,this president is running amouk.

 

Trump is and always has been a liar..he simply makes things up and hopes people will believe him...and TOO MANY do.

 

But attacking the very foundation of democracy....the election process itself...is really dangerous and its sad anyone believes this man yet alone millions of people....if Trump had the power he would declare this election null and void...install himself as the only leader we can trust and even trump supporters KNOW he would do that in a heart beat if he could...he cant... but is trying his best to find a way....

 

This guy cannot leave fast enough . For all of our health and security.

 

aloha

Edited by hawaiiirish
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i just dont get how anyone who thinks can still gobble up these ridiculous claims....

 

i am still waiting for the 5 million fake votes from 2016 Trump claimed were cast by illegals that changed the popular vote to clinton....a person might conclude why would a normal person make up a fake claim like this if he didnt have strong evidence.. guess what...Trump is not a normal person,,,,Trump set up a commission led by kris kobach,,,,kobach is a uber strong conservative to some...and a right wing hack to many...nonetheless even he after 2 years of investigating found NO voter fraud.

 

What does that tell us....using a teaspoon of logic it tells me Trump made this up out of thin air. as he does so much..and we spent millions chasing not a wild goose but an imaginary goose.

 

But apparently that was all just trump being trump and has no bearing on todays situation....but really come on...is anyone surprised trump has made all these claims about voter fraud....and his minions echo it and defend it as solid as steel....

 

Im still looking for Trumps investigators out here in hawaii..they have found damming evidence obama was born in kenya...hey he looked us all in the eye and told us that.... "believe me"....this guy has been full of S^%T my entire life...and he will never change,

 

So now its dominion voting systems....Listen to Rudy....( hey i would get more honest info from BORAT!).....OAN,,,Sydney Powell...Lou Dobbs....yea the real purveyors of truth justice and the american way....

 

This is just sad...the department of homeland security,,,the cybersecurity division...all have concluded no votes were changed by any voting system..these are trumps own government agencies....

 

So now the head of election security at homeland security is getting fired for saying this was the most secure election in american history...Trump doesnt want to hear that...he wants to hear Sydney Powell tell him the CIA is up to their neck in changing votes....my god man,,this president is running amouk.

 

Trump is and always has been a liar..he simply makes things up and hopes people will believe him...and TOO MANY do.

 

But attacking the very foundation of democracy....the election process itself...is really dangerous and its sad anyone believes this man yet alone millions of people....if Trump had the power he would declare this election null and void...install himself as the only leader we can trust and even trump supporters KNOW he would do that in a heart beat if he could...he cant... but is trying his best to find a way....

 

This guy cannot leave fast enough . For all of our health and security.

 

aloha

 

You might be right.

The Donald lacks a lot.

Tons of hard-to-fathom claims being made.

A ridiculously troubling time...

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Wayne County Michigan officials are refusing to certify ballot results. What's going on? What does that mean?

 

It was a partisan split and it has now resolved apparently. Results are certified. There doesn’t seem to be much information on why it was initially blocked and then unblocked.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/17/politics/michigan-detroit-election-results/index.html

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Guy claims there was proof; then provides none while running from the conversation when asked to show it.

 

I guess if one doesn't like the facts or conversation, blocking or running-away is the way to go. Next step will be to burn some books. Just intellectually lazy or dishonest IMO...I expected better.

 

Good luck man.

 

[ame]

[/ame]
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You mean this?

 

Top DHS official ratchets up rebukes of Trump's false election claims

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/13/politics/dhs-krebs-rebukes-trump-election-claims/index.html

 

 

On Saturday night, Chris Krebs, who runs the cyber arm of the Department of Homeland Security, slapped down another claim, tweeting, "Quick Election Security Disinfo Debunker: election-related servers WERE NOT recently seized in Europe by the US Army contrary to #disinfo rapidly spreading across social media. Don't buy it & think 2x before you share."

 

 

Fact check: The U.S. military has not seized election servers in Germany

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN27W1UW

 

Krebs is gone. CISA has Dominion and Smartmatic as a members of its Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Council. But DHS, CISA, et all fail to disclose those connections.

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Sydney Powell has stated several times that she has a Dominion worker willing to testify and that there is unequivocal proof that Hammer/Scorecard system was used during this election.

 

Obviously this claim is pretty serious in its nature. She also states that several government entities are involved and that she has the proof.

 

Having read what she stated, I'm probably going to consider that with any government statements of "no fraud here."

 

But this all hinges on what she knows--if anything--and what she can prove. She has a pretty solid reputation around the capital (among both parties) and she's known for her methodical approach of delivering facts.

 

This is getting very interesting. And that's fine if you disagree with any of this. I'm just repeating what has been stated.

 

Thanks for clarifying. I will say, I have 15+ years experience working on scaled software/hardware systems (developer, BA, light architecture, manager) in a couple of highly regulated industries (though, nothing with elections).

 

FWIW (and, I don't expect it to be worth a lot here since no one knows me from adam), I would eat my shoes if anything comes of this. I mean that literally. While it's technically possible that something like what I'm reading about here could happen, it just never does. Making functional solutions in these environments (on a massive scale, under extreme scrutiny) is enough of a pain in the ***. Misappropriating said software in an isolated manner that is also coordinated across independent businesses and consumer groups would, in many ways, be like putting a man on the moon except with 1% of the available resources. Not to mention, keeping a lid on all of it. This is why essentially all cases of scaled software solutions being compromised happen from groups completely dissociated from the OEMs/Software-Makers... ...they have a hard enough time keeping their **** working and avoiding breaches that they just can't bother with leveraging the systems themselves. Plus, I have to imagine Dominion and makers of Hammer enjoy lucrative contracts around their solutions. You're signing a death sentence for not only your business, but any hope of a career after doing something like this, so what's the up side? I mean, they don't need to do anything to keep making money. All of that aside, there are these points....

 

 

Math doesn't add up

An originating source on this is as dubious as Martin Aspen and, at any rate, this conspiracy ignores how these systems actually work. TL;DR - You can't really hack them in the way that is being suggested

 

One other point, I find that people in the government (no matter how reputable) tend to have zero ability to grasp software. While I'm sure Sydney Powell enjoys a hard-won reputation in legal circles, I'm going to take the very safe leap of impugning her ability to competently raise a concern around technology concerns such as these.

Edited by soulpatch
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Agree 100% soulpatch. And to add, even if a rogue employee or group of employees decided to push a nefarious patch, it would undergo code review by multiple resources, QA testing, etc prior to the patch being pushed. I just don’t see how something like this would not be caught. That’s not to say all code pushed to a production environment is 100%...it’s not and never will be, but to say something this large could pass all of the scrutiny it would undergo is hard to fathom. ...and if it were to get pushed out to the machines, having everyone involved keep their mouth shut would be unlikely as well. If it were to happen, the company would fold and the employees involved would have a hard time finding work.

 

I don’t see the results being changed. I don’t see some massive network of fraud. The only problem I have with the election is the mailing of unsolicited ballots.

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Anyone who doesn’t spout Trump’s Realpolitik is gone. Firing people for telling the truth doesn’t make them wrong.

 

Right. Like when Obama shitcanned General Flynn, a life long Democrat BTW, because Flynn was opposed to the Iran Nuke deal and was outspoken in his views. Then Obama went out of his way to discredit Flynn during the transition of the Trump administration before Flynn was even named to it. And then, sonovabitch, a bogus investigation and charges are brought against Flynn by the outgoing administration and its holdovers in the FBI.

 

Just so we are clear that this only happens one direction because...Trump.

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It was a partisan split and it has now resolved apparently. Results are certified. There doesn’t seem to be much information on why it was initially blocked and then unblocked.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/17/politics/michigan-detroit-election-results/index.html

 

Well, arguably partisan and the no votes felt there were discrepancies with the results and didn't want to certify, while the yes votes felt the opposite. I will say having watched the video of the meeting, the blatant doxxing of the no voters was unbelievable and claiming racsim without basis was ridiculous. Reading that the original dissenters may now be rescinding their yes votes and filing affidavits that they and their families were threatened.

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Right. Like when Obama shitcanned General Flynn, a life long Democrat BTW, because Flynn was opposed to the Iran Nuke deal and was outspoken in his views. Then Obama went out of his way to discredit Flynn during the transition of the Trump administration before Flynn was even named to it. And then, sonovabitch, a bogus investigation and charges are brought against Flynn by the outgoing administration and its holdovers in the FBI.

 

Just so we are clear that this only happens one direction because...Trump.

 

The bogus investigation that resulted in Flynn pleading guilty in federal court twice? Yeah, if Flynn says he’s guilty TWICE, then maybe there was something to it.

 

You have to work so hard to convince yourself that reality isn’t real. Isn’t it -possible- that more people just voted against Trump? Isn’t it possible that he’s a petty man-child who throws tantrums and fires anyone who disagrees with him?

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Well, arguably partisan and the no votes felt there were discrepancies with the results and didn't want to certify, while the yes votes felt the opposite. I will say having watched the video of the meeting, the blatant doxxing of the no voters was unbelievable and claiming racsim without basis was ridiculous. Reading that the original dissenters may now be rescinding their yes votes and filing affidavits that they and their families were threatened.

 

If that’s true, I will probably see it reported from a trustworthy source. There’s no argument that the vote was 2-2 Republicans and Democrats voting differently, so voting along party lines, if that’s a more accurate phrase.

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The bogus investigation that resulted in Flynn pleading guilty in federal court twice? Yeah, if Flynn says he’s guilty TWICE, then maybe there was something to it.

 

Well, you DO have to take into consideration that he essentially went bankrupt in the process of defending himself, with about $5 million in legal fees. And you have to consider that they also threatened to prosecute his son.

As someone who seems to know a lot about how all this works, don't these things factor into how someone pleads?

Running out of all money makes one accept deals sometimes, I suspect. I hope to never find out from personal experience.

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Reasonable thoughts. I cannot fathom the amount of billable hours it would take to get to $5 million in legal fees. Even at $1000 per hour, that’s 5,000 hours. That’s an ENORMOUS amount of time. And the end result of all that legal work was... they couldn’t find a better option than copping a guilty plea. That should also figure into the analysis on Flynn’s guilt/innocence analysis. After $ 5 million in legal fees, turns out his lawyers found nothing they could present to show the claims against him were bogus.

 

And the facts were there. You don’t plead guilty to prison time without any proof, or at least I cannot imagine any lawyer going along with that for his/her client.

 

There are lots of things that influence a decision to plead to committing a felony. Bear in mind that law enforcement, and particularly the FBI and DOJ, does not typically threaten to prosecute people without evidence, so it would be interesting to know (although I do not know) what Flynn’s son had going on.

 

The DOJ doesn’t usually bring a case they can’t back up, because they don’t like to lose. And I’d expect that to be doubly so with high profile cases.

Edited by TexasDomer
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Well, arguably partisan and the no votes felt there were discrepancies with the results and didn't want to certify, while the yes votes felt the opposite. I will say having watched the video of the meeting, the blatant doxxing of the no voters was unbelievable and claiming racsim without basis was ridiculous. Reading that the original dissenters may now be rescinding their yes votes and filing affidavits that they and their families were threatened.

 

There are distinctions between doxing someone and putting them on blast. Neither of these individuals seemed to be keeping a lid on their roles on the Wayne County Board of Canvassers, which itself is publicly available information (https://www.waynecounty.com/elected/clerk/board-of-canvassers.aspx). Now, they did get lit up on the public Zoom call during the portion of the call that was specifically intended to A) be public and B) allow non-board members to comment on the proceedings.

 

Beyond this, there are obviously differences of opinion on what does and does not constitute racism. Some can argue that they've not used racist language or specifically said they want to eliminate votes based on voters' race as evidence that their actions did not include any racism (or any number of other points). Others will point to the fact that they wanted to certify results in counties that had larger discrepancies in tallies but not in Wayne, note the obvious difference in racial make-up of both counties and say that constitutes racism. And, there are plenty of Twitter comments where people will (or will not) take publicly available information from these individuals and label them as racially charged.

I'm not here to say what they are or are not. But, to call these claims baseless is not a slam dunk.. ...it's a matter of perspective.

 

I did see that they filed an affidavit but, to be clear, that is largely kabuki and there is nothing more to be done now.

 

Personally, I unequivocally oppose threatening the lives of individuals and/or their families.

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The bogus investigation that resulted in Flynn pleading guilty in federal court twice? Yeah, if Flynn says he’s guilty TWICE, then maybe there was something to it.

 

You have to work so hard to convince yourself that reality isn’t real. Isn’t it -possible- that more people just voted against Trump? Isn’t it possible that he’s a petty man-child who throws tantrums and fires anyone who disagrees with him?

 

Obviously you know little about the Flynn case, like another poster or two. Consider looking into the case to understand the malfeasance of what happened and the extreme overreach of the judge still to this day. I won't fault a man willing to protect his family(who were NOT involved) and was being misrepresented and hung out to dry by his original legal counsel.

 

Sorry, didn't see your second response to Flynn case. Point still stands, that detailsof the case exit that I don't think you are familiar with probably due to sourcing.

Edited by jessemoore97
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Obviously you know little about the Flynn case, like another poster or two. Consider looking into the case to understand the malfeasance of what happened and the extreme overreach of the judge still to this day. I won't fault a man willing to protect his family(who were NOT involved) and was being misrepresented and hung out to dry by his original legal counsel.

 

Sorry, didn't see your second response to Flynn case. Point still stands, that detailsof the case exit that I don't think you are familiar with probably due to sourcing.

 

MMmmmkay. We're just not going to agree on this. That's OK.

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These GOP lead press conferences are insane. They are openly stating they will not accept the election results and Trump won in a landslide (6 million fewer popular votes).

 

Trump is inviting electors now to the WH to sway them and openly defy certifying elections in their counties and states. This is a not democracy. It is a dictator at work.

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The election was not successful for Trump.

 

Court is not a viable option. The lawsuits are all getting dismissed for lack of evidence.

 

The next play is to ask Republican leaders to disregard the votes of the people.

 

In all sincerity, I ask our Trump supporting board members:

 

At what point is this situation more than just a sore loser who won't admit defeat? At what point would YOU consider the conduct unreasonable in American society?

 

I'm not saying you have to have reached that point, but IS there a point at which the actions of a president can go so far that you might second guess your support? Maybe not even lose your support, but make you re-evaluate it?

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The election was not successful for Trump.

 

Court is not a viable option. The lawsuits are all getting dismissed for lack of evidence.

 

The next play is to ask Republican leaders to disregard the votes of the people.

 

In all sincerity, I ask our Trump supporting board members:

 

At what point is this situation more than just a sore loser who won't admit defeat? At what point would YOU consider the conduct unreasonable in American society?

 

I'm not saying you have to have reached that point, but IS there a point at which the actions of a president can go so far that you might second guess your support? Maybe not even lose your support, but make you re-evaluate it?

 

Tremendous numbers of people have no faith in the media, traditional and social. Just waaaay too much left-leaning bias. Having the media tell us who won the election does not cut it.

I don’t know if Sidney Powell and her crew have viable information or not. She needs to present it soon. Clearly some posters here believe there’s just no way that the Dominion system could be manipulated in the way she claims it has been. I can’t speak to that. Let’s see what she has. But indeed, let’s see it.

If the information she has actually does reasonably suggest massive manipulation has taken place, my question to those on the left is, at what point would you be willing to accept that maybe, just maybe, something actually did happen?

I believe most people on the right believe Trump lost the election. I do.

However, this, to me, goes beyond this particular election.

I want to see exposed all of the concerns about election integrity so any can be fixed before the next election.

Why are people on the left so concerned about a deep dive into the election process? Is it because it’s all just so fair and all voters of course are treated equally? You’ve argued against that for years.

A smooth transition would be preferable, no doubt. But, of course, that would mean giving top secret clearance to individuals that, given uncertainty, may not actually deserve that clearance and access to sensitive information. That’s weak, I agree, but I can understand it.

But again, suppose that Powell actually can demonstrate that Dominion did manipulate voting data. Would you guys be here claiming that it’s just not possible, there’s no way it can happen, and anyway the discovered manipulated vote totals are too small to alter the outcome? Or would that give even one second’s pause to consider the implications of that?

 

As I’ve stated, all evidence presented to date indicates Biden won. I think most Republicans are willing to accept it. I also think people on the right want to see all the evidence, rather than trust the media.

 

There’s no way to answer the question you posed in my opinion. I’ve already accepted that Trump lost. I don’t see the information his team has collected. Whatever that evidence is, they must be telling him it’s meaningful. Time to let the public see it. We have grown weary.

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If there were evidence that convinced courts, I would consider that there might be an issue with the computer system. If there were evidence presented to courts of some significant coordinated effort to do wrong, I would consider that.

 

If the information came from, or was even considered credible, by someone who isn’t so deeply vested in trying to keep Trump in power, I would consider it.

 

But given the constant pattern of demonstrable lying from Trump, and the fact that only the core QAnon lawyers are making these arguments, I’ve seen nothing along those lines.

 

What I have seen is a series of arguments that are abandoned at the first sign of scrutiny by a judge. That tends to lose credibility, no matter who you are. This whole time, Giuliani and team, including Powell, who seems to be respected by people here, have promised proof and failed to produce it when it counts.

 

If it wasn’t available the first 19 times when cases were dismissed or dropped, why would anyone expect it to be different on time 20?

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