Jump to content

Ohio St vs ND


jbrown_9999
 Share

Recommended Posts

Some day most ND fans will wake up and understand that Urban Meyer or Nick Saban aren't coming to ND because those coaches know the restrictions, limitations and huge disadvantages ND coaches are dealt.

 

The cold hard truth is, with today's college football landscape, the chance of ND winning a National Championship in the near future is a pipe dream at best.

 

It's not like if Saban came here, ND would all the sudden be Alabama, they are world different as far as the players they can recruit and the way in which the organization/school is run.

 

The stars would have to align to include an all-world QB, an above average (for ND) talented team, not getting hit with key injuries, several lucky breaks along the way, and that's just to get into the playoff. Then ND would have to play its two best games of the year to even compete, and get the lucky bounces they never seem to get in two straight games to have a shot.

 

So, unfortunately, 11-1 or 10-2 is the bar with an occasional playoff appearance every 5 years maybe (to likely get stomped by a football factory team). That sucks to say but that's the reality of college football and where ND fits in it these days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saw this on another board.

 

Earle Bruce was Ohio St’s 4th best coach... of its past 4

 

Meanwhile Brian Kelly is ND's best coach... of its past 4 (5 for some people)

 

Not a huge difference in their records

 

I never said Kelly was better than Holtz. I said a Holtz wouldn’t be as effective in this era, neither would Bear Bryant. Hell, Bear Bryant wouldn’t last more than a few seasons today. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a great coach historically.

 

Secondly, who gives a fck about Ohio St? ND isn’t OSU, they’re never going to be OSU bc of the academic hurdles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some day most ND fans will wake up and understand that Urban Meyer or Nick Saban aren't coming to ND because those coaches know the restrictions, limitations and huge disadvantages ND coaches are dealt.

 

The cold hard truth is, with today's college football landscape, the chance of ND winning a National Championship in the near future is a pipe dream at best.

 

It's not like if Saban came here, ND would all the sudden be Alabama, they are world different as far as the players they can recruit and the way in which the organization/school is run.

 

The stars would have to align to include an all-world QB, an above average (for ND) talented team, not getting hit with key injuries, several lucky breaks along the way, and that's just to get into the playoff. Then ND would have to play its two best games of the year to even compete, and get the lucky bounces they never seem to get in two straight games to have a shot.

 

So, unfortunately, 11-1 or 10-2 is the bar with an occasional playoff appearance every 5 years maybe (to likely get stomped by a football factory team). That sucks to say but that's the reality of college football and where ND fits in it these days.

 

I hope 1 day they can win a title, but the rest is true. I think Saban and Meyer would’ve won at least 1 title at ND, not so sure either would’ve won a 2nd. I do think they’d be solid 10-11 game winners every yr without the valleys we saw with Kelly

Edited by ELDER06
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right now, that is the case - but there was a time when ND had all the advantages. The college landscape is ever-evolving. It's possible that...

- We may land or luck into a Heisman-caliber QB. The QB position is so incredibly important that it can turn a 10-win ND team into a contender.

- In the future, we may luck into an up and coming coach or develop a coach that turns into a Dabo Sweeney

- Our independence could become an advantage in recruiting

- The "Fair Pay to Play" law goes national and gives ND an advantage

 

I think that ND is 'different' enough that it's not unfeasible that some of these differences may create a competitive advantage. Certainly not today - but who knows what the next 5 years brings.

 

Plus, with 10+ wins over 4 of the last 5 years, it's not unfeasible that the stars align for us to pull off a championship.

 

Now, I'm sure many will complain about Kelly and that "if it hasn't happened yet, it's not going to happen." That's not my point - it's more that it is possible for us to win a natty.

 

Lastly, you won't ever find me complaining about 10-win seasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right now, that is the case - but there was a time when ND had all the advantages. The college landscape is ever-evolving. It's possible that...

- We may land or luck into a Heisman-caliber QB. The QB position is so incredibly important that it can turn a 10-win ND team into a contender.

- In the future, we may luck into an up and coming coach or develop a coach that turns into a Dabo Sweeney

- Our independence could become an advantage in recruiting

- The "Fair Pay to Play" law goes national and gives ND an advantage

 

I think that ND is 'different' enough that it's not unfeasible that some of these differences may create a competitive advantage. Certainly not today - but who knows what the next 5 years brings.

 

Plus, with 10+ wins over 4 of the last 5 years, it's not unfeasible that the stars align for us to pull off a championship.

 

Now, I'm sure many will complain about Kelly and that "if it hasn't happened yet, it's not going to happen." That's not my point - it's more that it is possible for us to win a natty.

 

Lastly, you won't ever find me complaining about 10-win seasons.

 

I agree with this and things change, obviously. But, we have to get all the breaks to even be in the conversation, especially now with the "big game hole" we've dug. We have zero margin for error now.

 

But, to your point, a top-tier QB can make the difference between 9-3/10-2 and 12-0. And, can give you a puncher's chance in the playoff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with this and things change, obviously. But, we have to get all the breaks to even be in the conversation, especially now with the "big game hole" we've dug. We have zero margin for error now.

 

But, to your point, a top-tier QB can make the difference between 9-3/10-2 and 12-0. And, can give you a puncher's chance in the playoff.

 

I think it can do more than that. I contend that if Clemson had Book and ND had Lawrence, ND beats Clemson in the playoff. Do they beat Bama, who knows, but that is the difference one talented QB can make.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some day most ND fans will wake up and understand that Urban Meyer or Nick Saban aren't coming to ND because those coaches know the restrictions, limitations and huge disadvantages ND coaches are dealt.

 

The cold hard truth is, with today's college football landscape, the chance of ND winning a National Championship in the near future is a pipe dream at best.

 

It's not like if Saban came here, ND would all the sudden be Alabama, they are world different as far as the players they can recruit and the way in which the organization/school is run.

 

The stars would have to align to include an all-world QB, an above average (for ND) talented team, not getting hit with key injuries, several lucky breaks along the way, and that's just to get into the playoff. Then ND would have to play its two best games of the year to even compete, and get the lucky bounces they never seem to get in two straight games to have a shot.

 

So, unfortunately, 11-1 or 10-2 is the bar with an occasional playoff appearance every 5 years maybe (to likely get stomped by a football factory team). That sucks to say but that's the reality of college football and where ND fits in it these days.

 

Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson and an SEC bolter. 4 teams. Every year basically.

 

Oklahoma has no hope of winning a NC either. Do they also despair like this? Genuine question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some day most ND fans will wake up and understand that Urban Meyer or Nick Saban aren't coming to ND because those coaches know the restrictions, limitations and huge disadvantages ND coaches are dealt.

 

The cold hard truth is, with today's college football landscape, the chance of ND winning a National Championship in the near future is a pipe dream at best.

 

It's not like if Saban came here, ND would all the sudden be Alabama, they are world different as far as the players they can recruit and the way in which the organization/school is run.

 

The stars would have to align to include an all-world QB, an above average (for ND) talented team, not getting hit with key injuries, several lucky breaks along the way, and that's just to get into the playoff. Then ND would have to play its two best games of the year to even compete, and get the lucky bounces they never seem to get in two straight games to have a shot.

 

So, unfortunately, 11-1 or 10-2 is the bar with an occasional playoff appearance every 5 years maybe (to likely get stomped by a football factory team). That sucks to say but that's the reality of college football and where ND fits in it these days.

 

I have to disagree with the Saban/Meyer blurb. No, I don’t think ND would have the success Bama and OSU have had. However, do I think either would have won a national title if they were coaching here for a decade? Absolutely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to disagree with the Saban/Meyer blurb. No, I don’t think ND would have the success Bama and OSU have had. However, do I think either would have won a national title if they were coaching here for a decade? Absolutely.

 

That could be. The issue is those coaches would never ruin their own "brand" by taking on the ND head coaching job.

 

Now, the next up and comer, might work out for ND.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That could be. The issue is those coaches would never ruin their own "brand" by taking on the ND head coaching job.

 

Now, the next up and comer, might work out for ND.

 

I’m confused as to how this would ruin their brand? Both guys could potentially win a title at a third school and that third school being ND no less. There would be no bigger feat out there for either coach and they would instantly become college football royalty (even though they basically are now).

 

We can always dream...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saw this on another board.

 

Earle Bruce was Ohio St’s 4th best coach... of its past 4

 

Meanwhile Brian Kelly is ND's best coach... of its past 4 (5 for some people)

 

Not a huge difference in their records

 

Get a life. I thought this would be something interesting about ND and OSU not another way to spin the same pointless drivel that has littered this board for the last month.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m confused as to how this would ruin their brand? Both guys could potentially win a title at a third school and that third school being ND no less. There would be no bigger feat out there for either coach and they would instantly become college football royalty (even though they basically are now).

 

We can always dream...

 

Doesn’t sound like Meyer’s coming back to college, at least not anytime soon. Saban is too old to start again, he’s on his last leg at Bama.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A solid QB is only one part of the equation...

 

DL with multiple 1st / 2nd rounders

and

Skill positions the same

 

We're good on the former, but not good enough, and still not there on the latter, though a couple of potential pieces in the pipeline.

 

Problem is that we're lucky to get one or two studs while the elite teams have 5-6 per year. Compounded annually.

 

Just not gonna happen. Without serious institutional change. Which I know many here will object to anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some day most ND fans will wake up and understand that Urban Meyer or Nick Saban aren't coming to ND because those coaches know the restrictions, limitations and huge disadvantages ND coaches are dealt.

 

The cold hard truth is, with today's college football landscape, the chance of ND winning a National Championship in the near future is a pipe dream at best.

 

It's not like if Saban came here, ND would all the sudden be Alabama, they are world different as far as the players they can recruit and the way in which the organization/school is run.

 

The stars would have to align to include an all-world QB, an above average (for ND) talented team, not getting hit with key injuries, several lucky breaks along the way, and that's just to get into the playoff. Then ND would have to play its two best games of the year to even compete, and get the lucky bounces they never seem to get in two straight games to have a shot.

 

So, unfortunately, 11-1 or 10-2 is the bar with an occasional playoff appearance every 5 years maybe (to likely get stomped by a football factory team). That sucks to say but that's the reality of college football and where ND fits in it these days.

 

With a very good but not elite coach, ND has basically made the CFP once every five years. It is not unreasonable to believe that ND could make the CFP at least 2 years out of every 5 if they slightly improve recruiting to Top 5 to Top 10 from Top 10 to Top 20 and add a little improvement to the coaching staff.

 

If you give a ND team that makes the CFP a 10% chance to win the NC due to turnovers, injuries, blind luck, etc., ND could be expected to win a NC at once in the next 25 years given that it would have about 10 appearances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t believe this. These coaches are ego maniacs. They win here they know they are a legend.

 

Problem is the last “legend” we had was over 25 years ago. The job intimidates even the best coaches (Urban is a prime example). Eventually some of you will realize that ND is not the holy grail of coaching it once was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t believe this. These coaches are ego maniacs. They win here they know they are a legend.

 

Then explain why Meyer turned ND down when he was interviewed the first time and then declined to be considered when ND was looking for a coach a few years later?

 

For extra credit, I would also be interested in hearing your thoughts on why the last few coaching searches didn't exactly result in proven coaches beating down the door.

 

Based on what I know about the whole situation, the post by SDIrishFan is pretty accurate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The same reason that most 5-star players and top 4-star players, especially those with checkered academic backgrounds, won't even consider ND is the same reason the Meyers and Sabans of the world won't consider ND, it's harder. Much harder.

 

They may be ego maniacs, I agree, but because of that, they can go to a football factory school, have a MUCH easier road to a NC, thereby getting the ego stroke they need without having to deal with the HUGE challenges ND presents.

 

I'm not saying that a NC at ND is completely out of the realm of possibility, I'm saying the expectations of ND fans to compete EVERY year for a NC are completely far fetched. We rip down our coaches and players when we don't make the playoffs or get beaten badly in the playoffs. We've won 10 games 4 of the last 5 years and a lot of fans demand that BK be gone. Fans think we have a realistic shot at the Meyers and Sweaneys of the world and we simply don't.

 

I want a NC as much as the next fan, but I'm also realistic to think that 10 or 11 wins a year is a HUGE success taking everything into consideration. And, if/when the stars align about what most of us know needs to happen, I'll be happy as a pig in $hit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not saying it’s going to happen or likely, but for a coach who cares about legacy this is probably the best job available. What elevates Meyer over Saban? A title at ND. Heck even a coach who only has one title but that title happens to be at ND is an instant legend.

 

I think when Kelly decides to leave ND will have multiple top level coaches banging on our door. This isn’t the 2000’s ND, we’ve had two undefeated regular seasons with tier 2 recruiting classes. A better recruiter and game day coach/motivator will push us over the top.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then explain why Meyer turned ND down when he was interviewed the first time and then declined to be considered when ND was looking for a coach a few years later?

 

For extra credit, I would also be interested in hearing your thoughts on why the last few coaching searches didn't exactly result in proven coaches beating down the door.

 

Based on what I know about the whole situation, the post by SDIrishFan is pretty accurate.

 

I have no insider info but I do know coaches. But I’ll give you my thoughts since you asked. It was said Meyer’s wife didn’t like South Bend. Florida came along at the right time and it was a toss up. I’m sure he asked his wife, Florida or South Bend, obviously Florida. I’m sure he was also still trying to establish himself and he knew the academic restrictions wouldn’t allow him to do that at that time. He took the easier way out because he wanted to get paid later on and win now. ND was going to be a project for a few years. All those coaches knew that. These guys aren’t dumb.

However, ND isn’t where it was when he was being courted. Its a lot more attractive in every aspect besides the weather and academic restrictions.

That said, proven winners like Meyer, Saban, Carroll whoever, would jump at the chance now if given the right amount of money. (A lot). ND just has to provide it.

Again, these guys have nothing left to lose if they come here now. They have their championships. They are fighting for that Mt Rushmore of coaches. Only winning one at ND would help reach them there at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...