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Thanks for calling me out. If I had said a top 10 team in the past 2.5 years would that be more realistic?

And yet people think Kelly can win a National Championship. Give me a break.

 

You'd still be wrong because Stanford was ranked 7th last year when we played them

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You'd still be wrong because Stanford was ranked 7th last year when we played them

 

None of the games you mentioned were truly big time games. None. LSU was the closest but that was a bowl game of no consequence.

 

We have gotten rolled by Bama, OSU, Mich, Miami, Clemson, Texas, Georgia twice. These are “truly big games” and we lose every one of them and most of them we got rolled.

 

BK is not a big game coach by any legitimate standard. I could care less about winning 9 games on a schedule where we are favored by 10+ points. I judge a coach on how he does against legitimate top 10 competition in meaningful games.

 

BK has failed nearly every one of those situations.

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None of the games you mentioned were truly big time games. None. LSU was the closest but that was a bowl game of no consequence.

 

We have gotten rolled by Bama, OSU, Mich, Miami, Clemson, Texas, Georgia twice. These are “truly big games” and we lose every one of them and most of them we got rolled.

 

BK is not a big game coach by any legitimate standard. I could care less about winning 9 games on a schedule where we are favored by 10+ points. I judge a coach on how he does against legitimate top 10 competition in meaningful games.

 

BK has failed nearly every one of those situations.

 

I think that's revisionist history. Let me first say that I don't disagree with the general premise that BK can't win big games - we've seen it time and time again. Whether it's heartbreakers (Georgia '17, Georgia '19) or blow outs (Miami '17, Clemson '18, Michigan '19), the one constant is that ND has not been able to win most of those big games.

 

That being said, ND has won some big games over the last 3 years. (I am only counting games played from 2017 because it's obvious that after the 2016 disaster, the program did a face lift - that goes both ways, in that I won't bring up Stanford '12, Oklahoma '12, FSU '14, Clemson '15 or Alabama '12).

 

The USC game in 2017 is a good example. USC was ranked #11 and ND was #13. USC was coming off a Rose Bowl win the year before. They had Darnold at QB, who was widely considered one of the best QBs in the country. And ND just absolutely dominated them. USC won out - including the PAC-12 Champsionship - until they faced OSU in the Cotton Bowl. They finished #12 in the AP and #10 in the Coaches.

 

Michigan in 2018 is another example. Huge rivalry game. Ranked #14 in the country. Gameday was there. Huge expectations for both teams going into the season. That win propelled ND to an undefeated season. Michigan won the next 10 games until they ran into a buzzsaw in Columbus. They finished #14.

 

Now, those are definitely not Top 5 wins - I am not saying that - but those were definitely big wins at the time against two of ND's biggest rivals. Those teams had fairly good years (unlike Stanford last year who was #7 in the AP when ND beat them and finished the year unranked).

 

Your point still stands though, BK has not won enough of these games. I just think it's not entirely accurate to say that he hasn't won any in the last 2-3 years.

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None of the games you mentioned were truly big time games. None. LSU was the closest but that was a bowl game of no consequence.

 

We have gotten rolled by Bama, OSU, Mich, Miami, Clemson, Texas, Georgia twice. These are “truly big games” and we lose every one of them and most of them we got rolled.

 

BK is not a big game coach by any legitimate standard. I could care less about winning 9 games on a schedule where we are favored by 10+ points. I judge a coach on how he does against legitimate top 10 competition in meaningful games.

 

BK has failed nearly every one of those situations.

 

We were talking about the last 3 years and we didnt play Bama OSU and Texas. You also forgot we beat Michigan. But because we won that one it wasnt big? We beat USC when they were 11 but that wasnt big yet

the Michigan loss they were ranked what 18. How was that bigger?

 

Texas never rolled us btw. But we rolled them. The loss was big and the win wasnt because it fits your narrative?

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We were talking about the last 3 years and we didnt play Bama OSU and Texas. You also forgot we beat Michigan. But because we won that one it wasnt big? We beat USC when they were 11 but that wasnt big yet

the Michigan loss they were ranked what 18. How was that bigger?

 

Texas never rolled us btw. But we rolled them. The loss was big and the win wasnt because it fits your narrative?

 

I didn’t understand you were talking about the last 2 years. I was going by BK’s entire 10 year history.

 

But either way my point is proven. We have nearly no wins over any top 10 teams. I wasn’t forgetting we played Michigan, I just don’t consider that a big time win that year given how the rest of the year played out for them. When we played Texas at home they were terrible. When we played them on the road it was a much bigger game, it was on the road, and it was the only nationally televised game on that day. The entire nation was watching so yeah I would say that is a big game. And SC was not a top 10 team. They really haven’t been a top team the last 4-5 years.

 

Nearly all of our games against legitimate, top of CFB top 10 teams we have not fared well. I’m sorry if I don’t count wins over NW, Syr, Va Tech, temple, navy, etc as big time wins. They are nice wins but honestly games we should have won. I can’t believe you can honestly defend BK’s record in legitimate big time games. I could see you trying to defend him for other reasons but certainly not for his record in top 10 games.

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I think that's revisionist history. Let me first say that I don't disagree with the general premise that BK can't win big games - we've seen it time and time again. Whether it's heartbreakers (Georgia '17, Georgia '19) or blow outs (Miami '17, Clemson '18, Michigan '19), the one constant is that ND has not been able to win most of those big games.

 

That being said, ND has won some big games over the last 3 years. (I am only counting games played from 2017 because it's obvious that after the 2016 disaster, the program did a face lift - that goes both ways, in that I won't bring up Stanford '12, Oklahoma '12, FSU '14, Clemson '15 or Alabama '12).

 

The USC game in 2017 is a good example. USC was ranked #11 and ND was #13. USC was coming off a Rose Bowl win the year before. They had Darnold at QB, who was widely considered one of the best QBs in the country. And ND just absolutely dominated them. USC won out - including the PAC-12 Champsionship - until they faced OSU in the Cotton Bowl. They finished #12 in the AP and #10 in the Coaches.

 

Michigan in 2018 is another example. Huge rivalry game. Ranked #14 in the country. Gameday was there. Huge expectations for both teams going into the season. That win propelled ND to an undefeated season. Michigan won the next 10 games until they ran into a buzzsaw in Columbus. They finished #14.

 

Now, those are definitely not Top 5 wins - I am not saying that - but those were definitely big wins at the time against two of ND's biggest rivals. Those teams had fairly good years (unlike Stanford last year who was #7 in the AP when ND beat them and finished the year unranked).

 

Your point still stands though, BK has not won enough of these games. I just think it's not entirely accurate to say that he hasn't won any in the last 2-3 years.

 

Again as I said in my other post, I am looking at mostly his record in top 10 games. The SC and Mich wins are nice, but I don’t think many people considered those teams in those years to be the top of cfb.

 

I just don’t think we have fared well against the top teams in the country in BKs tenure. I know you said that is your overall feeling as well but I guess I don’t give him as much credit as you do for a couple more decent wins.

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So according to you, Kelly won in year 3 with Weis's recruits

 

Also according to you, Kelly is recruiting as well as anyone can recruit at ND

 

So wouldn't a new coach be able to win with Kelly's recruits in his first few years?

 

That’s assuming they don’t lose a lot of those recruits. It’s always a huge gamble.

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That’s assuming they don’t lose a lot of those recruits. It’s always a huge gamble.

 

Depends on the coach that they get. If its someone exciting or with a history of developing their specific position, recruits usually stay on.

 

If the coach leaves in a tumultuous fashion akin to a dumpster fire, you lose the top ones for sure. It's always dependent on the hire and the way the administration conducts itself in the transition.

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Depends on the coach that they get. If its someone exciting or with a history of developing their specific position, recruits usually stay on.

 

If the coach leaves in a tumultuous fashion akin to a dumpster fire, you lose the top ones for sure. It's always dependent on the hire and the way the administration conducts itself in the transition.

 

You also lose most of the Assts who did a lot of the recruiting. That’s why I keep saying it’s not a turn key job like some people think. It’s only that way if you hire internally and that’s assuming there’s no jealousy/hard feelings in who was picked.

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A lot of those were Weis recruits.

 

Yet, nobody says that for Charlie’s 4th and 5th years, those were Ty’s lack of recruits... Charlie got dealt a pretty crappy hand. In his first year, he still had Davie recruits and Ty’s first year recruiting class. Then, he had to endure the self-imposed probation Ty put us on for two years... Granted Charlie was also predictable, but the one thing he did for us was restock the cupboard so that the job was attractive again. It gave Kelly something to build on and definitively removed the excuse that you can’t recruit at Notre Dame.

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Yet, nobody says that for Charlie’s 4th and 5th years, those were Ty’s lack of recruits... Charlie got dealt a pretty crappy hand. In his first year, he still had Davie recruits and Ty’s first year recruiting class. Then, he had to endure the self-imposed probation Ty put us on for two years... Granted Charlie was also predictable, but the one thing he did for us was restock the cupboard so that the job was attractive again. It gave Kelly something to build on and definitively removed the excuse that you can’t recruit at Notre Dame.

 

Weis was a solid Offensive coach. You could legitimately argue they had one of the best group of skill players in the country his final yr. Clausen, Tate, Floyd, Rudolph. However, his Defenses were so bad.

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Weis was a solid Offensive coach. You could legitimately argue they had one of the best group of skill players in the country his final yr. Clausen, Tate, Floyd, Rudolph. However, his Defenses were so bad.

 

And his last year he finally landed Teo which led to one of our most dominant defenses ever in 2012. And even though Fox, Calabrese, and Motts were three stars, they were all starters for that 2012 team. Face it, Weis knew talent. It was just too late. But I wonder what would had happened if he stayed one more year. What would the following class had looked liked.

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And his last year he finally landed Teo which led to one of our most dominant defenses ever in 2012. And even though Fox, Calabrese, and Motts were three stars, they were all starters for that 2012 team. Face it, Weis knew talent. It was just too late. But I wonder what would had happened if he stayed one more year. What would the following class had looked liked.

 

Weis' recruiting classes were bad because they were so unbalanced. He didnt recruit the lines of scrimmages well which was his biggest weakness.

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Weis' recruiting classes were bad because they were so unbalanced. He didnt recruit the lines of scrimmages well which was his biggest weakness.

 

Yeah, looking at the DL recruits from ‘06-‘09 is really rough. He did get a lot of value from guys like Dan Fox, Harrison Smith, Kapron Lewis-Moore (recruited as an OLB).

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Yeah, looking at the DL recruits from ‘06-‘09 is really rough. He did get a lot of value from guys like Dan Fox, Harrison Smith, Kapron Lewis-Moore (recruited as an OLB).

 

Weis thought he could outscheme every opponent with his offensive prowess, but without a defense, he learned a sorry lesson.

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Yeah, looking at the DL recruits from ‘06-‘09 is really rough. He did get a lot of value from guys like Dan Fox, Harrison Smith, Kapron Lewis-Moore (recruited as an OLB).

 

Not to mention that whole 2012 defense that is considered to be pretty great.

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