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QB Conundrum


ndomer4
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So I still think we have a qb conundrum at ND under Kelly. Defences in 12,13,15,17,18,19 are all playoff level defences that have been hampered by good offences with average qb play. We can’t keep wasting years like this.

 

We know this defense can make the playoffs, but it won’t win a playoff game with Book at qb. Book is a game manager +. An average game manager might lose that USC game. I give Book the plus because of his legs and the fact he is very good at avoiding sacks/turnovers.

 

The proof is game managers can’t win titles anymore, you need a difference maker. So what do we do moving forward? We know what Book is and we’ve hit our ceiling with him, do we invite him back for another year knowing we can’t win a title with him next year?

 

These are tough decisions I’m clearly glad I don’t have to make, but I assume they invite him back. Based on what I’ve seen from Phil I do not think he’s the answer. Between Buchner, Clarke and Pyne the future at qb looks brighter than ever. I know some people will pull out the experience argument but tons of young qbs are succeeding, a lot with much less talent than we have at ND.

 

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?

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I think that your assessment is spot on, personally. In order to win a title you need a game changer. GA fans must be besides themselves for losing Fields. Fromm is a game manager ++, but he is no Justin Fields. Based on what I have seen of tape, Buchner could be that special player, but special players are both recruited + mentored.

 

You simply don't know what you have until you are in a real game situation. Jurk has looked good this year in mop up duty, but I'd like to see him get real reps in a real game situations to see what he has. I think Kelly needs to be thinking about this in anticipation of the playoffs and next season.

 

Saban benched Hurts for Tua. Now, that is a great problem to have frankly, but it shows you that bold moves are needed to win championships. There is not a doubt in my mind that this team cannot win a championship with Book, so why not at least see what Jurk's got against an inferior opponent at home like VaTech?!? If I were Kelly, I'd have Book claim injury for the VaTech game so the media doesn't make this a big thing, trot out Jurk and see what we got. Why not?

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So I still think we have a qb conundrum at ND under Kelly. Defences in 12,13,15,17,18,19 are all playoff level defences that have been hampered by good offences with average qb play. We can’t keep wasting years like this.

 

We know this defense can make the playoffs, but it won’t win a playoff game with Book at qb. Book is a game manager +. An average game manager might lose that USC game. I give Book the plus because of his legs and the fact he is very good at avoiding sacks/turnovers.

 

The proof is game managers can’t win titles anymore, you need a difference maker. So what do we do moving forward? We know what Book is and we’ve hit our ceiling with him, do we invite him back for another year knowing we can’t win a title with him next year?

 

These are tough decisions I’m clearly glad I don’t have to make, but I assume they invite him back. Based on what I’ve seen from Phil I do not think he’s the answer. Between Buchner, Clarke and Pyne the future at qb looks brighter than ever. I know some people will pull out the experience argument but tons of young qbs are succeeding, a lot with much less talent than we have at ND.

 

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?

 

I’ve said this same thing many times in other posts. If you think you have a potential stud QB then play him right away and see what he can do. Jurk hasn’t got the chance to do this yet. I think he has the tools to be really good but unless he is put in a situation to take meaningful snaps then we will never know. I do know this— Book isn’t the answer. Maybe one of the freshman next year or the year after are, but I would play Jurk and see what he can do. Too many other teams are having success playing guys as true freshmen to use that as an excuse any more.

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If I were Kelly, I'd have Book claim injury for the VaTech game so the media doesn't make this a big thing, trot out Jurk and see what we got. Why not?

 

While ND coaches in the past have stretched the truth (Rockne for one), it is different for the coach of ND to tell a player to lie about something like that.

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Kelly is in a tough strategic spot. He knows he can win with Book against every team on his schedule, but must realize from the Clemson game and the Georgia game that Book and his offense becomes severely limited by elite defenses that get pressure on the QB and don't get burned by dink and dunk.

 

We have a very good chance of winning the rest of our games and contending for a playoff spot. However, the chances of us winning if we do get a playoff spot are slim due to our offense's inability to perform.

 

By not playing Jurkovek, Kelly is risking losing him to transfer, particularly if Book returns next year, which is likely since he is not going to be drafted. We have no idea if we can win the rest of our games with Jurkovek at QB, but he clearly has a bigger arm than Book and can see the field in the face of pressure better than Book due to his size.

 

Kelly has chosen Book. He will reap short term rewards, but fall short of the ultimate prize again. That may be good enough for him and he may consider Jurkovek too big of a risk, and losing him to transfer not that big of a risk. We'll see what transpires, but Book's ceiling physically is low and I don't see anything changing that. This could be a missed opportunity, but Kelly gets paid to make these decisions. He's staking this- and possibly next- season on Book. It's too bad that the most important part of his offense is not elite. It would be fun to see how far we could go with an elite QB.

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Kelly is in a tough strategic spot. He knows he can win with Book against every team on his schedule, but must realize from the Clemson game and the Georgia game that Book and his offense becomes severely limited by elite defenses that get pressure on the QB and don't get burned by dink and dunk.

 

We have a very good chance of winning the rest of our games and contending for a playoff spot. However, the chances of us winning if we do get a playoff spot are slim due to our offense's inability to perform.

 

By not playing Jurkovek, Kelly is risking losing him to transfer, particularly if Book returns next year, which is likely since he is not going to be drafted. We have no idea if we can win the rest of our games with Jurkovek at QB, but he clearly has a bigger arm than Book and can see the field in the face of pressure better than Book due to his size.

 

Kelly has chosen Book. He will reap short term rewards, but fall short of the ultimate prize again. That may be good enough for him and he may consider Jurkovek too big of a risk, and losing him to transfer not that big of a risk. We'll see what transpires, but Book's ceiling physically is low and I don't see anything changing that. This could be a missed opportunity, but Kelly gets paid to make these decisions. He's staking this- and possibly next- season on Book. It's too bad that the most important part of his offense is not elite. It would be fun to see how far we could go with an elite QB.

 

Man you hit this perfect. I do think, or at least hope that BK does decide to start playing Jurkovec more just to see what he has.

Also, I wonder if not playing Jurkovec keeps the QB controversy to a minimum and also makes Jurkovec wonder if he is truly ready and able to beat out Book. Allowing BK some time to smooth talk Jurkovec into staying next year and beating out Book then.

Because like you said, if ND makes it to the playoffs and loses again with a similar score, it would be easier then to tell Jurkovec that he will have every opportunity coming in to win the job because he has the higher upside.

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Man you hit this perfect. I do think, or at least hope that BK does decide to start playing Jurkovec more just to see what he has.

Also, I wonder if not playing Jurkovec keeps the QB controversy to a minimum and also makes Jurkovec wonder if he is truly ready and able to beat out Book. Allowing BK some time to smooth talk Jurkovec into staying next year and beating out Book then.

Because like you said, if ND makes it to the playoffs and loses again with a similar score, it would be easier then to tell Jurkovec that he will have every opportunity coming in to win the job because he has the higher upside.

 

I think you have made some good points. Remember I think we all were surprised at how well Book performed last year. We all expected him to be even more a force this year. I think to some degree the coaching staff felt the same. Plus the coaches saw Jurkovec development was progressing slower then hoped. So we went with Book. Now “we” are realizing we are not going to get to the next level with Book. So I think there are going to be some tough decisions/conversations that Kelly is going to have. I would not be surprised if Book returned next year but did not start.

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Kelly is in a tough strategic spot. He knows he can win with Book against every team on his schedule, but must realize from the Clemson game and the Georgia game that Book and his offense becomes severely limited by elite defenses that get pressure on the QB and don't get burned by dink and dunk.

 

We have a very good chance of winning the rest of our games and contending for a playoff spot. However, the chances of us winning if we do get a playoff spot are slim due to our offense's inability to perform.

 

By not playing Jurkovek, Kelly is risking losing him to transfer, particularly if Book returns next year, which is likely since he is not going to be drafted. We have no idea if we can win the rest of our games with Jurkovek at QB, but he clearly has a bigger arm than Book and can see the field in the face of pressure better than Book due to his size.

 

Kelly has chosen Book. He will reap short term rewards, but fall short of the ultimate prize again. That may be good enough for him and he may consider Jurkovek too big of a risk, and losing him to transfer not that big of a risk. We'll see what transpires, but Book's ceiling physically is low and I don't see anything changing that. This could be a missed opportunity, but Kelly gets paid to make these decisions. He's staking this- and possibly next- season on Book. It's too bad that the most important part of his offense is not elite. It would be fun to see how far we could go with an elite QB.

 

Perhaps Kelly only wants Jurkovek to only play one year so Jurkovek doesn't have the typical year two regression under Kelly.

Edited by jbrown_9999
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I think that your assessment is spot on, personally. In order to win a title you need a game changer. GA fans must be besides themselves for losing Fields. Fromm is a game manager ++, but he is no Justin Fields. Based on what I have seen of tape, Buchner could be that special player, but special players are both recruited + mentored.

 

You simply don't know what you have until you are in a real game situation. Jurk has looked good this year in mop up duty, but I'd like to see him get real reps in a real game situations to see what he has. I think Kelly needs to be thinking about this in anticipation of the playoffs and next season.

 

Saban benched Hurts for Tua. Now, that is a great problem to have frankly, but it shows you that bold moves are needed to win championships. There is not a doubt in my mind that this team cannot win a championship with Book, so why not at least see what Jurk's got against an inferior opponent at home like VaTech?!? If I were Kelly, I'd have Book claim injury for the VaTech game so the media doesn't make this a big thing, trot out Jurk and see what we got. Why not?

 

I don't know how to judge Fields. He looks explosive running with the ball but they played absolutely no one and he has so much time in the pocket, he could pitch a tent.

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I think that your assessment is spot on, personally. In order to win a title you need a game changer. GA fans must be besides themselves for losing Fields. Fromm is a game manager ++, but he is no Justin Fields. Based on what I have seen of tape, Buchner could be that special player, but special players are both recruited + mentored.

 

You simply don't know what you have until you are in a real game situation. Jurk has looked good this year in mop up duty, but I'd like to see him get real reps in a real game situations to see what he has. I think Kelly needs to be thinking about this in anticipation of the playoffs and next season.

 

Saban benched Hurts for Tua. Now, that is a great problem to have frankly, but it shows you that bold moves are needed to win championships. There is not a doubt in my mind that this team cannot win a championship with Book, so why not at least see what Jurk's got against an inferior opponent at home like VaTech?!? If I were Kelly, I'd have Book claim injury for the VaTech game so the media doesn't make this a big thing, trot out Jurk and see what we got. Why not?

 

Kelly and Staff would lose all credibility with ANY future QB recruit or commit if your suggestion were to be taken seriously. Team is 5-1 this season, 17-2 with Book as the starter and while the jury is still out on Jurkovec, he has not yet earned the right to replace Book, barring injury. Book may not be Tua or Lawrence but he in no way deserves the treatment you suggest. Go IRISH!

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Kelly and Staff would lose all credibility with ANY future QB recruit or commit if your suggestion were to be taken seriously. Team is 5-1 this season, 17-2 with Book as the starter and while the jury is still out on Jurkovec, he has not yet earned the right to replace Book, barring injury. Book may not be Tua or Lawrence but he in no way deserves the treatment you suggest. Go IRISH!

 

What was Alabama’s record with Hurts before Saban replaced him with Tua?

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What was Alabama’s record with Hurts before Saban replaced him with Tua?

 

Re-read my post. It addressed the suggestion they fake an injury to Book so Jurkovec could play without questions of Book being benched. Further, Tua had displayed in game ability to out perform Hurts while no one has seen the same from Jurkovec. It's context, not mirroring what Saban did and how's Hurts playing at OK? The system sometimes plays to to the benefit of the player. The Bama comparison is apples to oranges.

Book has done nothing to lose his job to an unknown entity, especially with the next game coming under the lights in Ann Arbor. MI will likely be coming off a loss to PSU so primed to bring it in order to salvage a decaying season. GO IRISH!

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Re-read my post. It addressed the suggestion they fake an injury to Book so Jurkovec could play without questions of Book being benched. Further, Tua had displayed in game ability to out perform Hurts while no one has seen the same from Jurkovec. It's context, not mirroring what Saban did and how's Hurts playing at OK? The system sometimes plays to to the benefit of the player. The Bama comparison is apples to oranges.

Book has done nothing to lose his job to an unknown entity, especially with the next game coming under the lights in Ann Arbor. MI will likely be coming off a loss to PSU so primed to bring it in order to salvage a decaying season. GO IRISH!

 

While I don't disagree with you, by this logic should Wimbush not have been pulled for Book?

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Yea its not a conundrum , Kelly has NO REAL CHOICE..... Maybe during a game if Book is struggling badly or some such ,,,,maybe then Kelly could justify a switch...Phil has a bigger arm and threw that one nice long TD pass.....THAT IS ALL HE HAS ON HIS SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT.....Book has won almost every start...he has taken us to the playoffs , he changed the season for the best when he replaced Wimbush...he is VERY GOOD in the red zone...he is well respected by most. he has a good completion rate...he knows the offense, and is nearing 2 years of experience...

 

I mean we all know Books limitations...and we all wish we had a dynamic gunslinger at QB,,,,

 

But that just is NOT EVEN CLOSE to giving us a QB controversy....Kelly has no real option here that makes sense....and we are just stuck with a game manager that wins most of his games but likely cannot get us over the hump against another strong team....

 

It is what it is.....there just does not seem to be any realistic room to even debate a QB change the way things stand now

 

aloha

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Yea its not a conundrum , Kelly has NO REAL CHOICE..... Maybe during a game if Book is struggling badly or some such ,,,,maybe then Kelly could justify a switch...Phil has a bigger arm and threw that one nice long TD pass.....THAT IS ALL HE HAS ON HIS SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT.....Book has won almost every start...he has taken us to the playoffs , he changed the season for the best when he replaced Wimbush...he is VERY GOOD in the red zone...he is well respected by most. he has a good completion rate...he knows the offense, and is nearing 2 years of experience...

 

I mean we all know Books limitations...and we all wish we had a dynamic gunslinger at QB,,,,

 

But that just is NOT EVEN CLOSE to giving us a QB controversy....Kelly has no real option here that makes sense....and we are just stuck with a game manager that wins most of his games but likely cannot get us over the hump against another strong team....

 

It is what it is.....there just does not seem to be any realistic room to even debate a QB change the way things stand now

 

aloha

 

The conundrum for me comes with bringing Book back next year if we know the team will have a ceiling. We know Book can manage the game and make enough plays to win. The issue is that isn’t enough against top ten teams.

 

What’s his best win? We’ve benefited from a weaker than expected schedule the last two years. If we lose another BCS game and/or get blown out again, we need consider moving on.

 

I’m not trying to rag on Book, he’s instinctive, takes great care of the ball and shows flashes albeit very inconsistently. Kelly has built the program to a point where we have the dudes to win a title but we’re lacking at the most important position.

 

Book can end the talk if he performs in the postseason, however if he doesn’t I think it’s easy to open up the competition. I don’t have an issue with him coming back and having to earn the job but I don’t see Kelly inviting him back and not starting him.

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Ride Book for the rest of the season. After this season it's open competition for the job! Not sure if it's ND's choice on bringing back Book next year. If it is, I wouldn't. Too many options in the pipeline to settle for the high floor/low ceiling option in Book.

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Ride Book for the rest of the season. After this season it's open competition for the job! Not sure if it's ND's choice on bringing back Book next year. If it is, I wouldn't. Too many options in the pipeline to settle for the high floor/low ceiling option in Book.

 

You absolutely bring Book back next year! Even if he doesn't start, we NEED him. We'd have the best 2nd string QB in the country.

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Yea its not a conundrum , Kelly has NO REAL CHOICE..... Maybe during a game if Book is struggling badly or some such ,,,,maybe then Kelly could justify a switch...Phil has a bigger arm and threw that one nice long TD pass.....THAT IS ALL HE HAS ON HIS SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT.....Book has won almost every start...he has taken us to the playoffs , he changed the season for the best when he replaced Wimbush...he is VERY GOOD in the red zone...he is well respected by most. he has a good completion rate...he knows the offense, and is nearing 2 years of experience...

 

I mean we all know Books limitations...and we all wish we had a dynamic gunslinger at QB,,,,

 

But that just is NOT EVEN CLOSE to giving us a QB controversy....Kelly has no real option here that makes sense....and we are just stuck with a game manager that wins most of his games but likely cannot get us over the hump against another strong team....

 

It is what it is.....there just does not seem to be any realistic room to even debate a QB change the way things stand now

 

aloha

 

The Michigan game will be a great test for Book/Kelly and where we're headed down the line. They will be covering the slot receiver on the has mark with a safety, man to man. Penn State showed how vulnerable Michigan is to a deep post and deep flag route from the slot, due to this mismatch. If we do not take advantage of this by throwing deep, we are doomed to dink and dunk and headed nowhere in the big picture with Book.

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So I still think we have a qb conundrum at ND under Kelly. Defences in 12,13,15,17,18,19 are all playoff level defences that have been hampered by good offences with average qb play. We can’t keep wasting years like this.

 

We know this defense can make the playoffs, but it won’t win a playoff game with Book at qb. Book is a game manager +. An average game manager might lose that USC game. I give Book the plus because of his legs and the fact he is very good at avoiding sacks/turnovers.

 

The proof is game managers can’t win titles anymore, you need a difference maker. So what do we do moving forward? We know what Book is and we’ve hit our ceiling with him, do we invite him back for another year knowing we can’t win a title with him next year?

 

These are tough decisions I’m clearly glad I don’t have to make, but I assume they invite him back. Based on what I’ve seen from Phil I do not think he’s the answer. Between Buchner, Clarke and Pyne the future at qb looks brighter than ever. I know some people will pull out the experience argument but tons of young qbs are succeeding, a lot with much less talent than we have at ND.

 

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?

 

Book is "it" unless he gets hurt. Book it!!!

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We have our answer. What is Books best win? A neutral site game against Syracuse’s backup qb?

 

One of the young guys needs to take over next year, better yet groom them now.

 

I'm with you on this. What's the point now? Playoffs are gone. NY6 bowl is gone. Lets see what we have in Phil from here on out. If not, BK must go. I'm tired of these big game blow outs. No other coach has had this many bad losses and remained the coach for their school. At some point you have to say enough's enough.

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