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Recruiting woes separate us from the best


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This is a copout answer - it doesn’t explain why we got five stars back then, but haven’t had one in forever. Once in a while, there will be a guy who doesn’t develop, but the stars are a measure of probability of success at the college level and probability they will play on Sundays. Probabilities arent always absolute. Regardless, this answer doesn’t explain the question - it doesn’t matter that Lynch never finished his tenure at ND. How were we able to land him? Alabama is loaded with Jaylon type players. I would argue that Tua is Jaylon-esque at QB.

 

Anyway, juat my thoughts..

 

Tua might be. But do we have a job for his dad like Alabama seemed to. How about a house for his parents to stay in. Oh and if you are from Hawaii I am sure the weather is better in Bama than South Bend. And lets not forget there is also a top notch high school with a great program for his brother to go to. All things are not =

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This is a copout answer - it doesn’t explain why we got five stars back then, but haven’t had one in forever. Once in a while, there will be a guy who doesn’t develop, but the stars are a measure of probability of success at the college level and probability they will play on Sundays. Probabilities arent always absolute. Regardless, this answer doesn’t explain the question - it doesn’t matter that Lynch never finished his tenure at ND. How were we able to land him? Alabama is loaded with Jaylon type players. I would argue that Tua is Jaylon-esque at QB.

 

Anyway, juat my thoughts..

 

It absolutely matters. Who cares if you land Greg Bryant, Vanderdoes, Lynch, etc. and they don't stay. That completely destroys roster depth.

 

ND went all in on those guys and it didn't work out. The trouble is that creates depth issues when you A. swing for the fences and miss or B. they leave. 5* players tend to require extra attention and expect it. That eats into other resources and ND struggles to get those kids interested from the beginning.

 

When referring to Jaylon I meant specifically as a LB, overall he is an impact player that occurs every few years.

 

ND absolutely needs to land some difference makers, proven winning is probably the key. Also, RB is an issue that needs corrected. ND should be able to land a top 4* at least every other year, especially with the OLs they have had.

Edited by Big23Head
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I agree with the basic argument, but ND isn't sweating most of the teams on that list. It's only the tippy top that are the problem for this program. Granted, it's a problem I don't see them solving without extreme upgrades in talent, but no one here is afraid of any team below Ohio State on that list, and Notre Dame literally just beat LSU, Oklahoma, Florida State, Michigan and Texas within the past few years.

 

Alabama and Clemson are a huge problem for Notre Dame, but they're also a huge problem for every team in the country -- including every other team on that list with five stars.

Edited by ColinKSU
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Ohio State will go back to the pack after Urban leaves. He was recruiting across the country which has never been done at OSU. They will still be top 10, but not with Clemson, Bama, and Georgia.

 

They were elite and won a NC with Tressell and recruited nationally. They are a national powerhouse brand

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Ohio State will go back to the pack after Urban leaves. He was recruiting across the country which has never been done at OSU. They will still be top 10, but not with Clemson, Bama, and Georgia.

 

They hired two great recruiters away from Michigan although I don't know that either is a great coach anymore.

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Ohio State will go back to the pack after Urban leaves. He was recruiting across the country which has never been done at OSU. They will still be top 10, but not with Clemson, Bama, and Georgia.

 

I thought the same thing until I went back and looked at Tressels yearly records. I dont think they're going anywhere

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Looking at anecdotal information gathered from Rivals.com

 

1. Alabama 18 five stars and 62 four stars 2016-2019

 

2. Georgia 16 five stars and 55 four stars

 

3. Clemson 14 five stars and 34 four stars

 

4. OSU 12 five stars and 54 four stars

 

5. LSU 7 five stars and 46 four stars

 

6. Oklahoma 5 five stars and 53 four stars

 

7. Florida State 7 five stars and 51 four stars

 

8. Michigan 5 five stars and 52 four stars

 

9. Texas AM 3 five stars and 49 four stars

 

10. Penn State 4 five stars and 44 four stars

 

11. Texas 1 five star and 52 four stars

 

NOTRE DAME zero five stars and 35 four stars

 

We overachieved this year. Be thankful for what happened this year. As I said this is anecdotal information does not reflect the impact of coaching changes had on some performances. Michigan, Florida State, Penn State and AM struggled under old systems, USC struggles under current systems.

 

Jurkovec is a five star.

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Thinking about it more, ND needs to land a high profile guy that others see at camps and hear about. That will attract other players, much like Jaylon did when he committed. It needs to be a non OL though, something with more "flash".

 

BVG really set ND back, which we all knew. But reviewing the players, it was really bad. I think ND is on a similar path to what Clemson started around 2012. Another couple of years will tell the story.

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Thinking about it more, ND needs to land a high profile guy that others see at camps and hear about. That will attract other players, much like Jaylon did when he committed. It needs to be a non OL though, something with more "flash".

 

BVG really set ND back, which we all knew. But reviewing the players, it was really bad. I think ND is on a similar path to what Clemson started around 2012. Another couple of years will tell the story.

 

Pyne kinda did this with his recruitment. Bauman and Mayer gravitated toward ND because of Drew. Others I think have as well even though they aren't committed yet.

 

As for a player that can do that in a different capacity, Darrion Henry is a guy that comes to mind.

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As was pointed out, ND just needs 5-6 5* kids to really make a difference. From 6-85, I think ND was pretty even with Clemson.

 

But they had a 5* phenom QB.

 

Two 5* phenom WR.

 

Their 5* corner didn't get hurt.

 

A monster DL, similar to what ND might approach next season.

 

That's really the difference. 4-7 guys, but those guys can make such a dramatic impact.

 

Just watching the game, if we swap nothing but WR and QB's, who wins?

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Yes. Technically speaking, ND has one guy on the roster that reached 5 star status on any of the main recruiting sites. Hamilton will likely make that 2 for next year. Need a few more.

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Yes. Technically speaking, ND has one guy on the roster that reached 5 star status on any of the main recruiting sites. Hamilton will likely make that 2 for next year. Need a few more.

 

Doesn't matter, but I think it's two. Daelin Hayes on Rivals and Tommy Kraemer on 247.

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Looking at anecdotal information gathered from Rivals.com

 

1. Alabama 18 five stars and 62 four stars 2016-2019

 

2. Georgia 16 five stars and 55 four stars

 

3. Clemson 14 five stars and 34 four stars

 

4. OSU 12 five stars and 54 four stars

 

5. LSU 7 five stars and 46 four stars

 

6. Oklahoma 5 five stars and 53 four stars

 

7. Florida State 7 five stars and 51 four stars

 

8. Michigan 5 five stars and 52 four stars

 

9. Texas AM 3 five stars and 49 four stars

 

10. Penn State 4 five stars and 44 four stars

 

11. Texas 1 five star and 52 four stars

 

NOTRE DAME zero five stars and 35 four stars

 

We overachieved this year. Be thankful for what happened this year. As I said this is anecdotal information does not reflect the impact of coaching changes had on some performances. Michigan, Florida State, Penn State and AM struggled under old systems, USC struggles under current systems.

 

I’m pretty sure this gets talked about annually & no surprise

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Not upset that 2020 GA 5 star OL Myles Hinton verballed to Stanford today, but when looking at his offers, ND wasn't one of them!

 

WTF

 

Kid attends a Christian school, and almost every big hitting recruiting school (Alabama, USC, Michigan, OSU, Georgia, etc.) offered him... EXCEPT ND!

 

Dumbfounding, especially since this kid is smart enough to get offered by Stanford.

 

Didn't think this needed a separate thread, since it's just plain proof of ND's recruiting failures when talking about 5 star recruits!

 

:puke:

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Not upset that 2020 GA 5 star OL Myles Hinton verballed to Stanford today, but when looking at his offers, ND wasn't one of them!

 

WTF

 

Kid attends a Christian school, and almost every big hitting recruiting school (Alabama, USC, Michigan, OSU, Georgia, etc.) offered him... EXCEPT ND!

 

Dumbfounding, especially since this kid is smart enough to get offered by Stanford.

 

Didn't think this needed a separate thread, since it's just plain proof of ND's recruiting failures when talking about 5 star recruits!

 

:puke:

 

OL recruiting is not the issue though.

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Offer list included Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what this guy can do.

My guess is that Book starts at QB on 9/2/19 at Louisville and Jurkovec gets a lot of playing time, then Jurkovec starts at home against New Mexico the following week. Then it will be all Phil all the time.

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In terms of talent its osu georgia bama and Clemson and then everyone else. I would love for nd to be in that upper elite group but I think a lot would have to happen to get there and it's more then just who the coach is. I'm not convinced if admissions was completely revamped and we had saban in his prime if we would join that group. Do 5 star kids in todays world want to live in south bend Indiana in a very small private religiously affiliated university? I just dont think so. Everyone is on TV these days and I just dont see what major advantages nd would have to bring kids there.

 

For now were in the michigan, Washington, lsu, penn state Oklahoma etc group and I think that's a really good group of programs. But no one in that group is winning a title in the next decade

 

This is what I have been saying for a while now. We have too many disadvantages to be able to get the guys with aspirations to play on Sundays. We are a good program but not a NC program. It is what it is and it ain’t changing.

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Not upset that 2020 GA 5 star OL Myles Hinton verballed to Stanford today, but when looking at his offers, ND wasn't one of them!

 

WTF

 

Kid attends a Christian school, and almost every big hitting recruiting school (Alabama, USC, Michigan, OSU, Georgia, etc.) offered him... EXCEPT ND!

 

Dumbfounding, especially since this kid is smart enough to get offered by Stanford.

 

I believe this kid is the son of Chris Hinton, who played in the league with Harbaugh and is really tight with him. Myles' brother also plays for the Wolverines. This was a UM / Stanford decision all the way. Quite possible the kid or his family made that clear and that may be why we didn't offer.

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This is what I have been saying for a while now. We have too many disadvantages to be able to get the guys with aspirations to play on Sundays. We are a good program but not a NC program. It is what it is and it ain’t changing.

 

I guess I’ll volunteer for the printed/verbal beating, but I think ND could win a championship now.

Clemson trounced ND by 27. Ouch.

Clemson trounced Alabama by 28.

Purdue manhandled Ohio State.

Crazy things happen in any one game.

ND has a solid group of excellent players and good depth everywhere (okay, maybe not at runningback).

It is still a combination of players, coaches, injuries to ND and injuries to opponents, a play here or there.

Of course the odds are not in ND’s favor to win a championship this coming year. The odds are small. But I believe that, given the players, coaches, and changes that have occurred in the program, ND could indeed win over all.

Small odds, but not impossible odds.

Edited by Kelly Gruene
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I guess I’ll volunteer for the printed/verbal beating, but I think ND could win a championship now.

Clemson trounced ND by 27. Ouch.

Clemson trounced Alabama by 28.

 

I would agree with you to an extent. I just think Bama and Clemson were on a different level this year. Especially Clemson and that NFL defense they put out this year.

 

Having said that, if Notre Dame played Clemson 10 times this year, they would lose maybe 7 of them and get blown out only twice. Clemson was the better team this year and Notre Dame had a bad game, but I think Notre Dame can compete.

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