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You’re what’s wrong with Notre Dame


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You call the coach of the year a loser.

You slag players stepping in to fill in for the injured who may not be ready to perform on the biggest of stages.

You immediately demand the school lower its expectations to meet yours.

You call for the hire of men who would do just about anything to win - even when it is wrong.

You discount or dismiss every one of the 12...12! win this team had.

When players and coaches are beating the likes of Michigan week one - they are legends; when they struggle against Ball State they are garbage.

 

The emotional liability of the team’s fanbase is a joke.

 

Flame on. I’ve said my piece. See you in September.

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You call the coach of the year a loser.

You slag players stepping in to fill in for the injured who may not be ready to perform on the biggest of stages.

You immediately demand the school lower its expectations to meet yours.

You call for the hire of men who would do just about anything to win - even when it is wrong.

You discount or dismiss every one of the 12...12! win this team had.

When players and coaches are beating the likes of Michigan week one - they are legends; when they struggle against Ball State they are garbage.

 

The emotional liability of the team’s fanbase is a joke.

 

Flame on. I’ve said my piece. See you in September.

 

What he said.

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Not gonna pile on BK here

 

I respect him on many levels.

 

But yesterday I saw a DESTROYED OK team claw its way back to a respectable loss, maybe even made Bama nervous a bit, whereas we, the “Fighting” Irish, stayed flat until the end.

 

Coaching?

I say yes. I say players saw what we saw, a deflated BK who had seemed to give up.

As good as he is, that **** is inexcusable. I would argue it reflects in the players and makes this team the chokers that CFB fans perceive them to be.

 

Bad news is I don’t see how that can change with BK at the helm

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You call the coach of the year a loser.

You slag players stepping in to fill in for the injured who may not be ready to perform on the biggest of stages.

You immediately demand the school lower its expectations to meet yours.

You call for the hire of men who would do just about anything to win - even when it is wrong.

You discount or dismiss every one of the 12...12! win this team had.

When players and coaches are beating the likes of Michigan week one - they are legends; when they struggle against Ball State they are garbage.

 

The emotional liability of the team’s fanbase is a joke.

 

Flame on. I’ve said my piece. See you in September.

 

Couldn't agree more. ND was overmatched, no shame in that...Clemson was simply the better team. They made the plays and ND didn't. Move on, 12-1 is a great season, and just like all the other schools except for 1, will not be National Champions.

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You call the coach of the year a loser.

You slag players stepping in to fill in for the injured who may not be ready to perform on the biggest of stages.

You immediately demand the school lower its expectations to meet yours.

You call for the hire of men who would do just about anything to win - even when it is wrong.

You discount or dismiss every one of the 12...12! win this team had.

When players and coaches are beating the likes of Michigan week one - they are legends; when they struggle against Ball State they are garbage.

 

The emotional liability of the team’s fanbase is a joke.

 

Flame on. I’ve said my piece. See you in September.

Exactly. Well, except for misspelling “peace.” Haha. Jk.

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Exactly. Well, except for misspelling “peace.” Haha. Jk.

 

Play on words perhaps for all of the piles and pieces that call themselves loyal ND fans. I am devastated as well, but I am proud of this team and what they accomplished. Lets hope that we can build from here . I worry that it takes a few more years until we can compete again for a playoff spot.

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While I get “fan” is short for “fanatic” the meltdown on the live chat yesterday was crazy.

 

I didn’t mean to be insulting but seriously I think many people who were blaming BK and his staff yesterday don’t know a damn thing about football...and posters who feel the need to claim where they played I’m calling bullshit.

 

This team was very good and the program is in great shape; however, they are not Alabam, Clemson, and most likely not Oklahoma or Georgia elite. If you can’t see that something is wrong.

 

The game plan yesterday was very good...it was blown up by superior athletes. That’s all.

 

Sometimes the answer is easy...the other team is just better.

 

Go Irish!!!

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While I get “fan” is short for “fanatic” the meltdown on the live chat yesterday was crazy.

 

I didn’t mean to be insulting but seriously I think many people who were blaming BK and his staff yesterday don’t know a damn thing about football...and posters who feel the need to claim where they played I’m calling bullshit.

 

This team was very good and the program is in great shape; however, they are not Alabam, Clemson, and most likely not Oklahoma or Georgia elite. If you can’t see that something is wrong.

 

The game plan yesterday was very good...it was blown up by superior athletes. That’s all.

 

Sometimes the answer is easy...the other team is just better.

 

Go Irish!!!

 

I mostly agree with this. Except for Okla—they are really good offensively but defensively are a mess. We are much better than them defensively.

 

Clemson has 21 5-stars. We have zero. Now, just having talent doesn’t make you win, but when you put great coaching behind that like Bama and Clemson have that’s when you get elite.

 

Bottom line: Bama, Clem, and next year UGA are elite. ND and the rest of the top 10 are just good.

 

Great season though and far exceeded my expectations.

 

Go Irish!

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This is all a symptom a people not accepting that Notre Dame will never again be an elite football program. We have a good coach- and when the schedule turns out to be weak- we can go undefeated. However, winning masks our weaknesses in talent and depth compared to elite teams. If people reconciled to the reality that we are not ever going to be elite again, there would be a lot less wailing and gnashing of teeth. However, hope springs eternal and behind that false hope is all the wailing and gnashing.

 

The best thing that could happen to us to bring it all back down to reality would be for the playoffs to be extended to eight games and that the team rankings would be evaluated more on eye test than records. In that scenarios, we would not have been be # 3 this year in the final poll and we would have been beaten in the first round where there would be no illusion that we were elite. It is clear that the northern teams don't belong on the field with the top tier of the SEC-look at how Florida destroyed Michigan- and that our talent level is woefully deficient to the top tier teams.

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This is all a symptom a people not accepting that Notre Dame will never again be an elite football program. We have a good coach- and when the schedule turns out to be weak- we can go undefeated. However, winning masks our weaknesses in talent and depth compared to elite teams. If people reconciled to the reality that we are not ever going to be elite again, there would be a lot less wailing and gnashing of teeth. However, hope springs eternal and behind that false hope is all the wailing and gnashing.

 

The best thing that could happen to us to bring it all back down to reality would be for the playoffs to be extended to eight games and that the team rankings would be evaluated more on eye test than records. In that scenarios, we would not have been be # 3 this year in the final poll and we would have been beaten in the first round where there would be no illusion that we were elite. It is clear that the northern teams don't belong on the field with the top tier of the SEC-look at how Florida destroyed Michigan- and that our talent level is woefully deficient to the top tier teams.

 

Then we as fans need to change that. I for one will. I will continue to watch ND as I have for the past 32 years every Saturday. But I will not be buying anymore apparel. I won’t be attending anymore games. They won’t see a dime of my money until they decide to make things right. I was baptized Catholic but I don’t preach it. I don’t even go. I don’t fall in line with half of what ND stands for religiously. What I do fall in line with is watching ND football and being invested. If that’s not important to ND, then they need to rip up that NBC contract and stop pretending they are a football school. Because that’s where the hypocrisy starts.

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Then we as fans need to change that. I for one will. I will continue to watch ND as I have for the past 32 years every Saturday. But I will not be buying anymore apparel. I won’t be attending anymore games. They won’t see a dime of my money until they decide to make things right. I was baptized Catholic but I don’t preach it. I don’t even go. I don’t fall in line with half of what ND stands for religiously. What I do fall in line with is watching ND football and being invested. If that’s not important to ND, then they need to rip up that NBC contract and stop pretending they are a football school. Because that’s where the hypocrisy starts.

 

There is more to ND than just football. It is what it is. They will never change and I’m not saying they should. This is just a fact. If you want a program that is solely dedicated to football and football only, then maybe ND isn’t the team for you. Again, I’m not saying I agree with it and I’m not criticizing you for your opinion, I’m just trying to state the facts.

 

We should be happy when we have seasons like this one. Hopefully we can build off it and get better.

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Kelly is a good coach but he can’t get the guys up for big games. Guys would run thra ugh a wall for dabo, Saban isn’t as fiery but hIs teams never show us flat like ours.

 

It’s his demeanour and personality, but I’m not gonna point the finger at him. We just need to accept we aren’t winning any big bowl with a month to prepare.

 

What’s wrong is Bama and Clemson haven’t been playing by The rules and no one is investigating. The positive tests could be the top of the ice berg but I doubt it. These teams have to be paying players, they’re semi pro teams.

 

One other note I will add about Kelly is his interview on selection day. He says be careful what you wish for on the rematch with Bama potentially. That’s a coach with No confidence In himself or the team. You think Meyer or Dabo would answer like that? No, they say bring em on.

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There is more to ND than just football. It is what it is. They will never change and I’m not saying they should. This is just a fact. If you want a program that is solely dedicated to football and football only, then maybe ND isn’t the team for you. Again, I’m not saying I agree with it and I’m not criticizing you for your opinion, I’m just trying to state the facts.

 

We should be happy when we have seasons like this one. Hopefully we can build off it and get better.

 

Notre Dame was more than just football in Parseghian/Devine/Holtz era. The difference is that the culture changed at Notre Dame as it morphed into an elite academic institution with a $13 billion endowment.. Holtz's teams used to fight teams BEFORE the game and not only had elite athletes- including a Prop 12 QB that would never get into ND today- but had a brutally nasty mean streak. That won't fly at ND today. ND won't even accept an aggressive coaching staff on the sideline. Compare Kelly and staff vs. Dabo and Venables. ND is methodical, corporate and politically correct. They'd rather lose honorably than win brutally and at the Dabo/Saban level there is a take no prisoners brutality that ND will never again allow.

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I agree. Blaming Coach Kelly is just confirmation bias. People don’t like him and wait for things to happen to attempt to justify that dislike. We had a great season and deserved to be third, Kelly deserved his awards, and we do not need to become a football factory. As for getting on Vaughn, I’m sorry, his play deserved to be criticized. That was inexcusable.

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You call the coach of the year a loser.

You slag players stepping in to fill in for the injured who may not be ready to perform on the biggest of stages.

You immediately demand the school lower its expectations to meet yours.

You call for the hire of men who would do just about anything to win - even when it is wrong.

You discount or dismiss every one of the 12...12! win this team had.

When players and coaches are beating the likes of Michigan week one - they are legends; when they struggle against Ball State they are garbage.

 

The emotional liability of the team’s fanbase is a joke.

 

Flame on. I’ve said my piece. See you in September.

 

I agree. You are not going to hear me bitch about the team or coaches. Anyone watching the game could see the Clemson had more overall talent. I hate to agree with the TV analysts .....but we needed to play an all most perfect game to win. We had a great year ....final 4 this year ....now for the NC next year.

Go Irish!

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I am not sure what happened in which thread, but I am pretty sure a lot of folks (if not all) were pretty down on Kelly yesterday.

 

I think the basic concern here that I have, and probably a lot of others as well, is that this may be as good as it gets. Taking ND out of the picture for the moment, there are a lot of tiers of talent in the NCAA but the gap between tier 1 and 2 is huge. Alabama and the SEC (And now Clemson) have been fairly dominant over the past ten years. Success breeds success too, so winning teams get the good recruits and keep on winning as long as you have a coach who can win.

 

I don't know how successful Kelly would be with Saban or Clemson's athletes, it really makes no difference because he has what he has. I am not sure Saban or Swinney could do better with what Kelly has, again, immaterial. I am frustrated and embarrassed by the game yesterday, it was a long wait for redemption from 2012 and it just didn't come. It is what it is. I am sure I will get excited about football again when NSD raps up in Feb, and again around August, but for now I am going to try to enjoy the entire season all the way up until 24 hours ago.

 

I will look for another thread breaking down what in the actual f**k happened yesterday because I am pretty confused.

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I think it's fine for fans to celebrate the highs and mourn the lows of their favorite teams.

Every college team that establishes a winning tradition creates high expectations. When teams do not meet those high expectations, fan bases become restless.

Georgia is I think a good example. Mark Richt went 145-51 during his tenure. He was fired after his last five seasons went: 10-4, 12-2, 8-5, 10-3, 9-3. Rumblings by the fans, the administration decides it will never win a championship with Richt at the helm, and out he goes. Georgia happened to bring in a great coach and of course their academic requirements differ from ND's, but the expectations resulted in unhappiness and that created change.

 

I agree that some fans seem to take things way to personally and perhaps should consider expressing themselves in less demeaning terms. To me, that's part of the price of success. High expectations. Nothing wrong with that.

 

I disagree that people who come to DomerDomain are what is wrong with ND. They are what is right with ND. Loyal fans. Winning attracts fans. Winning created this fan base. Winning created the expectations. ND has set the bar high. There is not a loyal fan base among teams that are regularly in the top 25 that does not have similar experiences. If Alabama were to lose 2 games one year and 3 games the next, I suspect their fans would say the game has passed Saban by and they need a new coach. There would be huge negativity on their boards.

 

I don't like how people express themselves sometimes, whether here on DD or in opinion pieces on television or in the paper. But, I think that's part of life. I try not to get too caught up in it.

 

I will celebrate ND always. I went to school there, have had the opportunity to go to two Cotton Bowls (including the Chicken Soup game and yesterday) and one Sugar Bowl (losing to Georgia), and have spent a lot of money on ND-related things. I thought the players played hard yesterday but were over-matched physically and coaching-wise. How I express that may not be how others may express that, but it doesn't in my opinion mean that I am what is wrong with ND. I am a loyal, money-spending alumnus/fan and have high expectations. Just like fans from Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Florida, Michigan, Ohio State, USC, Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Florida State, and Clemson.

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There is more to ND than just football. It is what it is. They will never change and I’m not saying they should. This is just a fact. If you want a program that is solely dedicated to football and football only, then maybe ND isn’t the team for you. Again, I’m not saying I agree with it and I’m not criticizing you for your opinion, I’m just trying to state the facts.

 

We should be happy when we have seasons like this one. Hopefully we can build off it and get better.

 

Frankus said a lot of truth in this thread but I’m responding to you since we have chatted in the past. I grew up a stones throw from Eddy street and Angela. I used to ride my bike around and stadium when I was kid. We’d go go-carting begins the old St. Joe high school. My friends and I would wake up Saturdays in the fall and go play football at Muessel Park. Even had the 78(?)Washington high state champions come play us. No shyt. After the game we would go watch ND kick *** on who they were playing.

Now, I’m not name dropping to stick my chest out. I’m name dropping because that was the culture in South Bend. It’s where I lived. ND was it. WSBT talked about them, stores only had their apparel. Even, Martins supermarket had cut offs of Lou’s face. Now, I haven’t live there in 15 years but I still visit frequently for family. And I hardly doubt I’m seeing a cutout of BK’s head.

As Frankus has said, the culture has changed. It’s too corporate now. But that doesn’t mean I have to like it or accept it. I expect ND to compete for National Championships. The school still claims that is their goal. So, I guess as long as they still have NBC as a contract and they have that sign of Play Like A Champion sign as they walk out to the stadium, then I expect them to do whatever it takes to make this program great again.

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You call the coach of the year a loser.

You slag players stepping in to fill in for the injured who may not be ready to perform on the biggest of stages.

You immediately demand the school lower its expectations to meet yours.

You call for the hire of men who would do just about anything to win - even when it is wrong.

You discount or dismiss every one of the 12...12! win this team had.

When players and coaches are beating the likes of Michigan week one - they are legends; when they struggle against Ball State they are garbage.

 

The emotional liability of the team’s fanbase is a joke.

 

Flame on. I’ve said my piece. See you in September.

 

The fanbases emotional fragility is this teams problem. Not the CEO and coach that goes from screaming lunatic when the game is close to looking like a completely defeated and beaten dog when things fall apart. Very emotionally mature man.

 

Right.....

Edited by KellyisNasty
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Look at our Academic All American and Clemson's guy. It tells you all you need to know and what our reality is.

 

Tranquill, Mechanical Engineering.

 

Huggins, Athletic Leadership. Almost as useless as Gender Studies. I didn't even know that was a degree...sounds like one of those courses they take a JUCOs to stay eligible to play.

 

In the "real world" Tranquill and ND guys make it even if the NFL doesn't come calling. The Alabamas, OSU, Clemsons, LSU, FSU, Oklahomas, these guys entire future depends on making the NFL. Academics are just a waste of time to them.

 

It is what it is, but we will win with what we have. Sooner or later, and that day is going to be great and the wait will be worth it.

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I agree. Blaming Coach Kelly is just confirmation bias. People don’t like him and wait for things to happen to attempt to justify that dislike. We had a great season and deserved to be third, Kelly deserved his awards, and we do not need to become a football factory. As for getting on Vaughn, I’m sorry, his play deserved to be criticized. That was inexcusable.

 

I think it's fair to blame Kelly for not bringing in and developing elite QB's. That has been his biggest weakness overall as a head coach.

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You call the coach of the year a loser.

You slag players stepping in to fill in for the injured who may not be ready to perform on the biggest of stages.

You immediately demand the school lower its expectations to meet yours.

You call for the hire of men who would do just about anything to win - even when it is wrong.

You discount or dismiss every one of the 12...12! win this team had.

When players and coaches are beating the likes of Michigan week one - they are legends; when they struggle against Ball State they are garbage.

 

The emotional liability of the team’s fanbase is a joke.

 

Flame on. I’ve said my piece. See you in September.

 

I concur. great year, just didn't execute. nice to have 12 wins

 

Go Irish!

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Frankus said a lot of truth in this thread but I’m responding to you since we have chatted in the past. I grew up a stones throw from Eddy street and Angela. I used to ride my bike around and stadium when I was kid. We’d go go-carting begins the old St. Joe high school. My friends and I would wake up Saturdays in the fall and go play football at Muessel Park. Even had the 78(?)Washington high state champions come play us. No shyt. After the game we would go watch ND kick *** on who they were playing.

Now, I’m not name dropping to stick my chest out. I’m name dropping because that was the culture in South Bend. It’s where I lived. ND was it. WSBT talked about them, stores only had their apparel. Even, Martins supermarket had cut offs of Lou’s face. Now, I haven’t live there in 15 years but I still visit frequently for family. And I hardly doubt I’m seeing a cutout of BK’s head.

As Frankus has said, the culture has changed. It’s too corporate now. But that doesn’t mean I have to like it or accept it. I expect ND to compete for National Championships. The school still claims that is their goal. So, I guess as long as they still have NBC as a contract and they have that sign of Play Like A Champion sign as they walk out to the stadium, then I expect them to do whatever it takes to make this program great again.

 

I hear what you are saying and I’m not disagreeing with you. I think we are saying about the same thing. Times have changed and this is the direction that ND as a university has taken. Like it or not. And like you, I have been a fan since I was a kid since ‘74. I had two older cousins who graduated from ND and went to games as a kid. I totally understand what you are saying about the culture. Same as what Frankus said above.

However, the fact is so much has changed both in the culture and in the landscape of CFB. Even if the ND administration changed the culture to be more football first as it was years ago, it would still be extremely difficult for ND to consistently be on the level of a Bama, Clemson, and UGA are now. Recruiting is different and players want other things that ND doesn’t have. Times have changed.

 

My point is that it isn’t going to change and this is where we are at.

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I hear what you are saying and I’m not disagreeing with you. I think we are saying about the same thing. Times have changed and this is the direction that ND as a university has taken. Like it or not. And like you, I have been a fan since I was a kid since ‘74. I had two older cousins who graduated from ND and went to games as a kid. I totally understand what you are saying about the culture. Same as what Frankus said above.

However, the fact is so much has changed both in the culture and in the landscape of CFB. Even if the ND administration changed the culture to be more football first as it was years ago, it would still be extremely difficult for ND to consistently be on the level of a Bama, Clemson, and UGA are now. Recruiting is different and players want other things that ND doesn’t have. Times have changed.

 

My point is that it isn’t going to change and this is where we are at.

 

 

Yeah, true. Think about this. If ND had gotten 3 5 star guys in the past 4 years, say, another corner, an elite wr, and or a d-lineman or qb. Think about how that game vs Clemson could had changed. We are so close yet, so far away. I've just lost faith in BK recruiting ANY 5 star talent and being able to motivate kids any nasty demeanor of football come championship Saturday. At this point, we need to land at least 3 5 star kids in 4 years and we need an actually motivational speaker come Saturdays. Because we had all the reason to be pissed yesterday from all the disrespect we got and still came out somewhat flat. To methodical...

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