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You are acting like they are light and day here. Yes, none of that is much better than what Kelly has done. Kelly 3rd season 12-0, Harbaugh 8-5.

 

Oh cmon...don't be childish about that 3rd season, which i promise you no one remembers as a 12-0 irish team. They remember it as what clearly shouldve been 9-3 if not for some questionable and wildly fortunate bounces, culminating in what is probably the most lobsided national championship game in a few decades...Harbaugh has actually won those national stage games....Bk just "hopes they dont show up" in the 2nd half. Answer of the decade.

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I am not saying Harbaugh is not a better coach, but I don’t think he is going to mop the floor with Kelly, just based on his coaching ability. He hasn’t proven anything at Michigan yet.

 

Mop the floor? Naw that requires dominance and college football can't guarantee such a thing. But jim will beat Bk every time he lines up against him. 100%

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Something nobody has mentioned are our assistants. I could be wrong but other than Denson, Joseph, Lea(linebackers), and Balis our strength coach, I don’t see where we have better coaches at each positions. Our home crowd advantage has to be huge.

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Jim Harbaugh was great at Stanford. No doubt about that. But it's a stretch to say that BK doesn't even compare.

 

In Harbaugh's three seasons at UM, he is 5-7 (42%) against AP Top 25 teams. He is 1-5 against Michigan State and Ohio State. He has finished #12, #10, and NR in the Final AP Poll.

 

In BK's eight seasons, he is 13-17 (43%) against AP Top 25 teams. He is 5-8 against Top 25 teams since 2015. In the last three seasons, he has finished #11, NR, #11.

 

While I wouldn't hesitate to say that Harbaugh is the better coach, it's not by a landslide as some would say.

 

Also, the argument that 2012 doesn't count for BK because he "got some fortunate bounces" is just BS. ND was 12-0, not 9-3. If you use that logic, then you can't complain when some ND fans say ND was a few unfortunate bounces from going 12-0 and being in the CFP in 2015. It just isn't logical. You are what your record says you are. The 2012 team was a very good team that beat Michigan State, Michigan, Stanford, Oklahoma, and USC. Did they get lucky against Pitt? Absolutely. But look at every national championship contending team over the last decade or two. Every team gets fortunate bounces. It's college football. That's what happens. It's BS to say ND was just lucky in 2012.

 

Also, while the 42-14 thrashing to Alabama was undoubtedly embarrassing, ND is hardly the first team to lay an egg in the National Championship Game. It wasn't the worst loss in decades. The year before, Alabama beat LSU 21-0. In 2007, Florida beat Ohio State 41-14. In 2005, USC beat Oklahoma 55-19. Yes, ND still got smoked in an embarrassing fashion, but they weren't the first team, nor will they be the last team to do that. Alabama beat Michigan State 38-0 in 2016. Clemson beat Ohio State 31-0 in 2017. It happens.

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Lets be fair here, Michigan has NOT beaten a good team since way back october of 2016 when they beat Michigan state.....

 

since that game they have lost to Iowa, ohio state, florida state,michigan state, penn state , ohio state, wisconsin and south Carolina

 

since that october 2016 game they have beaten,, Maryland, Indiana, cincinnatti, air force ,purdue Indiana again, Rutgers, minnisota, Maryland again, with the only big name win against a florida team that only won 4 games....

 

 

So I don't dispute Harbaugh being a good coach , or Michigan having good players and a good defense.....BUT COME ON-----this current Michigan squad is a far cry from some juggernaut that should instill fear as an opening day match up...

 

 

They are a good team and that's about it....

 

 

 

aloha

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Something nobody has mentioned are our assistants. I could be wrong but other than Denson, Joseph, Lea(linebackers), and Balis our strength coach, I don’t see where we have better coaches at each positions. Our home crowd advantage has to be huge.

 

It's interesting that they haven't hired an Offensive Coordinator, choosing to go with a "collaborative process", though both their Offensive Line coach (Ed Warinner @Ohio State) and their Receiver Coach ( Jim McElwain @Alabama) have been offensive coordinators at major programs.

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Hmmm let's see here. 1st season at michigan was a 10 win season that ended with thrashing bowl opponent Florida 41-7. 2nd season was a 10 win season that ended with a marginal (1 point) loss to top 10 ranked Florida St...

 

And finally, in 2017, all losses except 1 were to top 10 teams where they had to humbly accept a mediocre 8-5 season (otherwise known as par around here).

 

Remind me again where the comparisons are to BK?

 

When Jim is at michigan and BK is at ND, you can all but guarantee an a$$ thrashing... Bk doesnt belong on this level.

 

Good to see you're in mid season form. Harbaugh has done squat up there but if you want to annoint him go for it. Could Michigan beat nd? Of course they could but dont feed me all this crap about harbaugh being head and shoulders above anyone. Dude just went 8-5 and lost to south carolina in a bowl game, when kelly does that you call for a mass firing but if harbaugh does it its no big deal? I get that you hate kelly and are probably furious that hes going to be here another 3 or 4 years but my god man ease off gobbling jimmy

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Dude just went 8-5 and lost to south carolina in a bowl game, when kelly does that you call for a mass firing but if harbaugh does it its no big deal?

 

To be fair, Kelly went 4-8 not 8-5 when most people started giving up on him and wanting a new coach. In addition, Kelly has gone 8-5 three times.

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To be fair, Kelly went 4-8 not 8-5 when most people started giving up on him and wanting a new coach. In addition, Kelly has gone 8-5 three times.

 

And every time hes gone 8-5 people have wanted him gone, and this is in no way an endorsement of bk who i am not a fan of but the harbaugh love just makes me a little sick. Harbaugh beats florida in a bowl and wins 10 games and echo loves him for it, kelly wins 10 and beats lsu and gets crickets?

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Jim Harbaugh was great at Stanford. No doubt about that. But it's a stretch to say that BK doesn't even compare.

 

In Harbaugh's three seasons at UM, he is 5-7 (42%) against AP Top 25 teams. He is 1-5 against Michigan State and Ohio State. He has finished #12, #10, and NR in the Final AP Poll.

 

In BK's eight seasons, he is 13-17 (43%) against AP Top 25 teams. He is 5-8 against Top 25 teams since 2015. In the last three seasons, he has finished #11, NR, #11.

 

While I wouldn't hesitate to say that Harbaugh is the better coach, it's not by a landslide as some would say.

 

Also, the argument that 2012 doesn't count for BK because he "got some fortunate bounces" is just BS. ND was 12-0, not 9-3. If you use that logic, then you can't complain when some ND fans say ND was a few unfortunate bounces from going 12-0 and being in the CFP in 2015. It just isn't logical. You are what your record says you are. The 2012 team was a very good team that beat Michigan State, Michigan, Stanford, Oklahoma, and USC. Did they get lucky against Pitt? Absolutely. But look at every national championship contending team over the last decade or two. Every team gets fortunate bounces. It's college football. That's what happens. It's BS to say ND was just lucky in 2012.

 

Also, while the 42-14 thrashing to Alabama was undoubtedly embarrassing, ND is hardly the first team to lay an egg in the National Championship Game. It wasn't the worst loss in decades. The year before, Alabama beat LSU 21-0. In 2007, Florida beat Ohio State 41-14. In 2005, USC beat Oklahoma 55-19. Yes, ND still got smoked in an embarrassing fashion, but they weren't the first team, nor will they be the last team to do that. Alabama beat Michigan State 38-0 in 2016. Clemson beat Ohio State 31-0 in 2017. It happens.

 

This is an excellent post! Spot on!

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Good to see you're in mid season form. Harbaugh has done squat up there but if you want to annoint him go for it. Could Michigan beat nd? Of course they could but dont feed me all this crap about harbaugh being head and shoulders above anyone. Dude just went 8-5 and lost to south carolina in a bowl game, when kelly does that you call for a mass firing but if harbaugh does it its no big deal? I get that you hate kelly and are probably furious that hes going to be here another 3 or 4 years but my god man ease off gobbling jimmy

 

Also, what was their Recruiting class ranked last yr? 20 something? I think Harbaugh is a better coach, but if BK has some of the same pitfalls, he’d be crucified.

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Since this is not a game prediction thread........ I will resist the baiting. From all I have heard and read, the Wolverines have had some turmoil in recruiting and in the program altogether recently. Harbaugh is a bit unhinged the past couple of seasons and really .. since joining Michigan. It's like he felt he didn't have to constrain his quirkiness and oddities. His first 2 seasons were good, but something is going on that has changed the trajectory of the program IMHO. Doesn't he remind you of Mike Leach? Aside from that, I don't have confidence in BK as a coach for our team, however ... I think I have more confidence in him in the opener of the season than at any other time of the season.

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Lets be fair here, Michigan has NOT beaten a good team since way back october of 2016 when they beat Michigan state.....

 

since that game they have lost to Iowa, ohio state, florida state,michigan state, penn state , ohio state, wisconsin and south Carolina

 

since that october 2016 game they have beaten,, Maryland, Indiana, cincinnatti, air force ,purdue Indiana again, Rutgers, minnisota, Maryland again, with the only big name win against a florida team that only won 4 games....

 

 

So I don't dispute Harbaugh being a good coach , or Michigan having good players and a good defense.....BUT COME ON-----this current Michigan squad is a far cry from some juggernaut that should instill fear as an opening day match up...

 

 

They are a good team and that's about it....

 

 

 

aloha

 

You have to go farther back than that, the 2016 Michigan State team went 3-9!

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From all I have heard and read, the Wolverines have had some turmoil in recruiting and in the program altogether recently. Harbaugh is a bit unhinged the past couple of seasons and really .. since joining Michigan. It's like he felt he didn't have to constrain his quirkiness and oddities. His first 2 seasons were good, but something is going on that has changed the trajectory of the program IMHO.

 

The worst turmoil in recruiting for Michigan occurred in two of the Hoke years 2014 and 2015. I don't know if they caught up with Harbaugh in 2017 or what, but he had some highly rated upper class talent when he walked in the door and some very poorly rated underclassmen. Looking at his own recruiting, Harbaugh did recruit very well in 2016 and 2017, which will be his junior and sophomore classes this year. He faltered in 2018, which will be his freshman class. Kelly has had nowhere near the disaster Hoke had in 2014 and 2015. He got a good bump after the 2012 season, but then fell back out of the Top 10 as Harbaugh climbed into the Top 5 and then fell. Winning matters when it comes to recruiting!

 

Here's a comparison of our recruiting classes vs Michigan from Rivals going back to 2012.

 

2012: Michigan #7 (Hoke), ND #20 (Kelly)

2013: Michigan #5 (Hoke), ND #3 (Kelly)

2014: Michigan #31 (Hoke), ND #3 (Kelly)

2015: Michigan #49 (Hoke/Harbaugh), ND #11 (Kelly)

2016: Michigan #4 (Harbaugh), ND #13 (Kelly)

2017: Michigan #4 (Harbaugh), ND #13 (Kelly)

2018: Michigan #20 (Harbaugh), ND #11 (Kelly)

Edited by Frankus
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I think Paterson is getting way too much credit. He's thrown more interceptions than he has career starts. The vast majority of his yards and completion percentage is greatly inflated by his numbers against S Alabama and Tenn Martin, and Vandy. His numbers were also inflated by the second half of the Auburn game when, with the game out of hand, he picked up a lot of garbage completions. Against the good teams he played ( Alabama and LSU) he was worse than horrible.

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I think Paterson is getting way too much credit. He's thrown more interceptions than he has career starts. The vast majority of his yards and completion percentage is greatly inflated by his numbers against S Alabama and Tenn Martin, and Vandy. His numbers were also inflated by the second half of the Auburn game when, with the game out of hand, he picked up a lot of garbage completions. Against the good teams he played ( Alabama and LSU) he was worse than horrible.

 

Has he been named the starter? I thought Peters would probably beat him out.

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Kelly has not shown me he can outcoach someone who is generally regarded As a better coach. Maybe I'm just preparing for disappointment because I've come to expect it but we generally lose to teams with equal or more talent.

 

I won't be shocked if we win this game but if I had to put money on it id bet on Michigan. He's had sub Tommy Rees qb play which will change this year, their defense is very good and they recruit well.

 

If he didn't get jobbed by that bs 4th down review they beat OSU and the MSU game was a fluke. I have a tough time seeing BK outcoach Harbaugh. Wimbush and Dex need to play to their potential and our defense needs to improve a little.

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  • 2 weeks later...
This year, i feel like watching amongst my brothers. I know of a little irish pub not too far from me. I wonder if they show the nd games and fellow irish fans flock the place.

 

Anyway, I'm excited about the season. Not worried about michigan, too often we beat ourselves.

 

Check your local ND alum club(s) - - most have a "Game Watch" somewhere every Saturday of the season . . .

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  • 2 weeks later...
34 - 20 Skunks...

 

17 - 7 Irish at half and then coaching prowess takes over....Jim > BK 6 ways to Sunday.

 

No way can such an inept, crock of a coach ride his DII coattails into a decent showing against Harbaugh. Jim slowly worked his way up to the 2010 team that was "supposedly" as academically hamstrung as ND and handed over the reins to a new coach who continued the practice of embarrassing BK.

 

Last time he squared off against a BK-coached Irish squad, he rolled his team of Math-letes into South Bend and beat us by over 3 TDs...

 

31-0 win in 2014 was an awesome way to send this series into hiatus (against Hoke), but a UM team led by Jim isn't losing to BK....

 

[ame]

[/ame]
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Oh cmon...don't be childish about that 3rd season, which i promise you no one remembers as a 12-0 irish team. They remember it as what clearly shouldve been 9-3 if not for some questionable and wildly fortunate bounces, culminating in what is probably the most lobsided national championship game in a few decades...Harbaugh has actually won those national stage games....Bk just "hopes they dont show up" in the 2nd half. Answer of the decade.

 

Uh huh, thanks for you expert analysis. I conclude that Harbaugh has done nothing that Kelly hasn’t in college football.

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