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Why did it take so long for ND to show off that vertical passing game?

 

Kizer completed shredded the MSU defense once we got down by 4 scores. Some may say MSU let up on defense, but I didn't see it that way.

 

Kelly needs to go to the strength of this team and let Kizer air it out early in the games. ND could have lost the game anyway, but that was the most frustrating part of the game for me.

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I think it is Kelly's stubbornness. He wanted to establish the run.

I agree - just let Kizer throw the ball around. Set up the run with the pass.

I can call that read up the middle every time we run it. I really hate our running game - it needs to be more inventive. Kelly thinks we can run it down the other team's throat and we can't.

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We were actually doing fine until he back to back turnovers. That deflated this team. I give him a pass because I think he was trying to give the defense a break and re-establish the game. Get the crowd back. The only problem is we don't run well and they knew it was coming.

The series that got me angry was the back to back to back run plays down by 29. Come to think of it, was that THIS time? I can't remember. It's ripping the scar right open again.

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We were actually doing fine until he back to back turnovers. That deflated this team. I give him a pass because I think he was trying to give the defense a break and re-establish the game. Get the crowd back. The only problem is we don't run well and they knew it was coming.

The series that got me angry was the back to back to back run plays down by 29. Come to think of it, was that THIS time? I can't remember. It's ripping the scar right open again.

 

I haven't heard the crowd boo in a few years, but after those back to back run plays, down by 29, the crowd then boo'd pretty loudly.

 

I can see pushing the run even when you're down one or two TDs, but when its 4 TDs it's not going to get you there. He just needed to attack the secondary sooner.

 

Now the real question, did we not prepare for MSU well? The weakness at MSU has always been the secondary. Not necesarily their top corner, but normally who the safety is nickel is covering.

 

I think we should have come out passing right away, and set up the run from there...

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We needed to establish the run, the numbers show the best teams and teams that win the game almost always run for more yards. We need to control the line of scrimmage and the zone block scheme we use and our lack of pulling guards was the reason we couldn't run.

 

I can't blame Kelly for sticking to the run as many of us used to rag on him for it. I can blame him for not changing the scheme or getting rid of Heistand for his lack of success with some of the best recruits you could ask for.

 

I think a little had to do with MSU playing soft but at the end of the day you trust your coaching staff and Kelly's staff sucks!!!

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We were actually doing fine until he back to back turnovers. That deflated this team. I give him a pass because I think he was trying to give the defense a break and re-establish the game. Get the crowd back. The only problem is we don't run well and they knew it was coming.

The series that got me angry was the back to back to back run plays down by 29. Come to think of it, was that THIS time? I can't remember. It's ripping the scar right open again.

 

This is definitely true, but with that said I would want my best player getting the team fired up again. I fully believe this game end up differently if Boykin's leg never touches that ball, but I also believe the game is different if Kelly let the team play to their strengths after the momentum switch. Those 2 runs in a row when it was 29-7 seemed like a coach conceding the game

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This is definitely true, but with that said I would want my best player getting the team fired up again. I fully believe this game end up differently if Boykin's leg never touches that ball, but I also believe the game is different if Kelly let the team play to their strengths after the momentum switch. Those 2 runs in a row when it was 29-7 seemed like a coach conceding the game

 

If the ref calls the obvious PI on the first drive and we put up points instead of punts, it could have been a whole different game too. Being up 14 - 0 makes a big difference, instead of ending up 8 - 7.

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Why did it take so long for ND to show off that vertical passing game?

 

.

 

Welcome to my world. That has infuriated me for the last 3 years. He waits till he's down a few td's and then decide to play to his strenght.

 

It's also the reason we look bad against teams like wake forest and BC. We're usually ahead so he tries to run all game and we end up with an ugly win versus a bad team..

 

Kelly's job may not be on the line this year but the fans confidence in him sure is.

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There are a series of horrendous calls that kept MSU in it early. ND needs to simply refuse to play Big10 teams with Big10 Refs on the field. The conflict of interest is so obvious, as is the inevitable result.

 

They were down 36-7 at one point. They gave up 36 straight points to a team that only scored 28 on Furman. The referees sucked, but the team sucked worse.

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Because Kelly's passing offense is the same, whether it is Tommy Rees or Kizer behind center.

 

Not true.

 

Rees was unable to throw downfield. AT ALL. This resulted in teams pressing ND at the line, or dropping 8 in a blanket shallow zone. He was also a statue, which meant that even with a 3 man rush he was unable to grab the 3-7 yard qb runs that are available against 3 man rushes.

 

Kizer is a legit QB that can stretch a defense if the coaches allow vertical routes. That opens short route and longer runs b/c the defense has to defend deeper, keeping safties back and making corners take a step back rather than constantly jamming at the line.

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They were down 36-7 at one point. They gave up 36 straight points to a team that only scored 28 on Furman. The referees sucked, but the team sucked worse.

 

As the other poster said above, ND could have been up 14-0 early, and there MSU is getting put into bad situations where they have to play from behind.

 

Now, perhaps that just gets MSU passing, at which point they exploit ND's depleated secondary and run off 35 points once they realize that ND cannot cover or pass rush, but it's a very different game.

 

I have been an ND fan long enough to remember the seasons where we used Big 10 refs and played many big 10 teams. Refs can take those 2 or 3 plays a game away from you, or just keep you behind the sticks one or two times a game to tip the balance.

 

JS has done a great job fixing this, but we still have games like this one where there is a clear bias. I do not get why ND does not insist on impartial refs in all games, such as pac 10 for the MSU game, or SEC for ACC games. If a team insists on its own refs, you know what is coming.

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As the other poster said above, ND could have been up 14-0 early, and there MSU is getting put into bad situations where they have to play from behind.

 

Now, perhaps that just gets MSU passing, at which point they exploit ND's depleated secondary and run off 35 points once they realize that ND cannot cover or pass rush, but it's a very different game.

 

I have been an ND fan long enough to remember the seasons where we used Big 10 refs and played many big 10 teams. Refs can take those 2 or 3 plays a game away from you, or just keep you behind the sticks one or two times a game to tip the balance.

 

JS has done a great job fixing this, but we still have games like this one where there is a clear bias. I do not get why ND does not insist on impartial refs in all games, such as pac 10 for the MSU game, or SEC for ACC games. If a team insists on its own refs, you know what is coming.

 

Notre Dame can't run block or make easy tackles. Until the team gets those fairly simple fundamentals under their belts, I'm not sure why anyone would complain about referees.

 

Also, your entire premise is based on "maybes." Maybe ND does score that drive that was messed up by the PI. Maybe they fumble and it gets returned for a TD.

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Notre Dame can't run block or make easy tackles. Until the team gets those fairly simple fundamentals under their belts, I'm not sure why anyone would complain about referees.

 

Also, your entire premise is based on "maybes." Maybe ND does score that drive that was messed up by the PI. Maybe they fumble and it gets returned for a TD.

 

Maybe MSU would have cried for mercy at 14 - 0 and just gone home. Who knows? When a team is doing the fundamentals as bad as ND is right now, they need refs to make the calls. When you can't tackle worth a hot damn you need to not have the ref missing calls that keep the offense on the field.

 

Complaints about blocking and tackling are valid. Complaints about the refs are valid too.

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Not claiming ND is not a hot mess right now.

 

It is just infuriating to watch refs tip the game, just a little, here and there. ND needs the breaks that they get, and the DEFINITELY need the obvious PI and holding calls that they were denied Saturday.

 

MSU has that physical rep and sometimes refs overlook calls because it's their personality.

 

If we went deep more and it became our trademark, we'd get a lot more PI. Calls.

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MSU has that physical rep and sometimes refs overlook calls because it's their personality.

 

If we went deep more and it became our trademark, we'd get a lot more PI. Calls.

 

We played right into their strength as a team. Kizer and the passing game was supposed be our advantage, and we went to too late.

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Not true.

 

Rees was unable to throw downfield. AT ALL. This resulted in teams pressing ND at the line, or dropping 8 in a blanket shallow zone. He was also a statue, which meant that even with a 3 man rush he was unable to grab the 3-7 yard qb runs that are available against 3 man rushes.

 

Kizer is a legit QB that can stretch a defense if the coaches allow vertical routes. That opens short route and longer runs b/c the defense has to defend deeper, keeping safties back and making corners take a step back rather than constantly jamming at the line.

 

I agree completely with you about Kizer's ability, but Kelly's still calling pass plays like he did with Kizer/Rees/Golson until he gets way behind. He's still calling lots of roll out passes- which is stupid with Kizer, because it limits how much of the field he can see and he doesn't throw it well anyway- and lots of short, low risk passes. This is his passing offense, whether it's Crist/Rees/Golson or Kizer. The difference is that when he gets behind like he did Saturday night, with Kizer he can pass downfield successfully, while he couldn't as much with Crist/Rees/Golson.

 

Kelly keeps repeating that he's not going to put the offense on Kizer's shoulders. So, if he's telling the truth were gonna see the same pass offense we saw with Crist/Rees/Golson, until we get behind-again.

 

I have posted numerous times that I think we should go vertically from the first snap, but I'm skeptical that Kelly will change his passing system. I expect more of the same Saturday. I hope I'm wrong.

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Kelly keeps repeating that he's not going to put the offense on Kizer's shoulders. So, if he's telling the truth were gonna see the same pass offense we saw with Crist/Rees/Golson, until we get behind-again.

 

.

 

Kelly said he's not gonna put winning the game on kizer's shoulder.

 

The offense can't help but be on his shoulder.

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The thing is...with the group of O-Linemen we have and the athleticism at RB and QB, there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to run up and down everybody

 

There are so many teams that run spread that are able to run at will as well as getting those critical 1-3 yards for a conversion or TD

 

I'm getting flashbacks of 2006 when our passing game had to do everything and our defense made every team look like a top-10 offensive unit

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