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ND/Stan Rivalry > ND/USC Rivalry


Franco
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Sorry for the click bait, but I couldn't resist ;)

 

But yes, AS OF LATE, the ND/Stanford Rivalry has been a true rivalry. Just some objective numbers:

 

ND/Stanford since 2008 (when Stanford started getting good)

2008 - ND wins 28-21 (Quite frankly, it wasn't that close)

2009 - Stanford wins 45-38

2010 - Stanford wins 37-14 (Kelly was still finding his footing)

2011 - Stanford wins 28-14 (Quite frankly, it wasn't that close)

2012 - ND wins 20-13*

2013 - Stanford wins 27-20

2014 - ND wins 17-14

2015 - Stanford wins 38-36*

 

Aside from 2010-2011 when ND was still trying to find itself under Kelly, this series has never been won by more than a TD, and since 2012, has had an effect on the national picture of college football (*National Title implications)

 

In my mind, this has developed into a true rivalry not only because each game is a slugfest where the last team with the ball has usually won it, but it's deeper than that

 

ND and Stanford both share the same values of excellence in sports AND in the classroom. In my eyes, no one else has shown the athletic and academic excellence that ND and Stanford shows

 

ND/USC since 2008 (for consistency purposes)

2008 - USC wins 38-3

2009 - USC wins 34-27

2010 - ND wins ugly 20-16

2011 - USC wins 31-17 (should have been closer if not won by ND, but ND was still in its 'can't get out of our own way' mentality that it developed under Weis)

2012 - ND wins 22-13 (Quite frankly, it SHOULDN'T have been that close)

2013 - ND wins ugly 14-10

2014 - USC blasts an ND team that gave up on the season 49-14

2015 - ND wins 41-31 (Again, shouldn't have been that close, but there are still little moments of that 'can't get out of our own way' mentality...but it's going away)

 

So ND has won 4 out of the last 6, but why is it that when we win, we barely squeak by, but whenever USC wins, they win pretty damn convincingly...I hate that

 

Anyway, so yea, this ND/USC rivalry hasn't been that much of a rivalry since probably Holtz. Just a few notes:

 

1) There haven't been National Title implications (both teams have National title hopes at the time of the game) since 2005, and only once since...i dont know, Holtz?

2) The players don't really get fired up about this rivalry. But you can see a lot more tension between ND and Stanford

3) The games don't really feel that close...even on the games that ND seemed to squeak by, I honestly never really felt like USC could have done anything. So there never really is the back and forth trading blows type of play that you see during an ND/Stanford game

 

Just my thoughts..I'm procrastinating at work and there hasn't been much chatter on the board lately, even during the season. So I just thought I would get some conversations started and this is actually something I've been thinking about for a few years

Edited by Franco
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Personally I think based on games the MSU rivalry might be the best of the bunch. 05 and 06 were all time greats for each side. 09 was a barn burner, 2010 was another all time classic.

 

Even Michigan had all close games from 2009-2012. Could make a case for all 3 but USC has been way too one sided for stretches. I think the rivalry with USC is losing it's lust while the Stanford is becoming "the game". Gameday has been to two or three games of ours recently, plus the finishes in '12,'14,'15 make it one of the best rivalries in college ball. Plus you have the academic side to look at it too, so times have changed with the rivalries it seems.

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I have been to both campuses many times. Two distinctly different environments. There is no comparison in the pervasive home like environment ND has over Stanford. Stanford is a true melting pot the tends to have a clique feel to it that does not bring the student body together in the way ND does. But Stanford being in Cali presents so many more social entertainment opportunities. No offense but South Bend is mostly a dump outside of the campus.

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I've hated USC since I was old enough to understand the rivalry. I think ND/USC will always be the biggest for me, but others are definitely up there as well.

 

This. The other "rivalry" might be closer or more entertaining as of late. But I hate USC and this the rivalry. Right up there with Michigan. Not opponents, but enemies.

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The fact that we cannot compete with USC when they are at their best, but can with Stanford, is emblematic of how our program has fallen.

 

You're a real b1tch. Nobody was able to compete with the Leinart/Bush Trojans. Also, Stanford is one of the best programs in CF and Notre Dame has competed with them. You're just a doucher who gets off on being negative. Notre Dame will never be consistently elite like Bama or OSU because the program has integrity. However, it doesn't mean they can't compete at a high level and eventually win a National Title.

Edited by ELDER06
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You're a real b1tch. Nobody was able to compete with the Leinart/Bush Trojans. Also, Stanford is one of the best programs in CF and Notre Dame has competed with them. You're just a doucher who gets off on being negative. Notre Dame will never be consistently elite like Bama or OSU because the program has integrity. However, it doesn't mean they can't compete at a high level and eventually win a National Title.

 

I believe that Frankus is making the point that decades ago Notre Dame was the pinnacle of college football (i.e. consistently elite) and that other schools including Bama and OSU had issues competing with the Irish.

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I believe that Frankus is making the point that decades ago Notre Dame was the pinnacle of college football (i.e. consistently elite) and that other schools including Bama and OSU had issues competing with the Irish.

 

That was then, this is now. College Football is an entirely different game than it was 30-40 yrs ago. Nobody could beat those early-mid 00s SC teams. However, in the present day, Stanford is a far superior program compared to SC. Funny how a morose tool like Frankus seems to think Notre Dame is struggling when USC has trouble keeping their coach sober.

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I believe that Frankus is making the point that decades ago Notre Dame was the pinnacle of college football (i.e. consistently elite) and that other schools including Bama and OSU had issues competing with the Irish.

 

Maybe.

But decades ago Harvard was winning national championships in football. Minnesota was winning championships in football. Yale won 17 national championships. Now there are programs that have fallen and not gotten up.

Pinnacles come and go. ND is climbing. Not where it was, but realistically in the discussion now, and things are looking up.

Times change, administrations change, football changes. Alabama will fall when Saban moves on. USC??? Their best years were in the 60's and 70's. Early 2000's were a bit of an aberration historically.

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/

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This. The other "rivalry" might be closer or more entertaining as of late. But I hate USC and this the rivalry. Right up there with Michigan. Not opponents, but enemies.

 

To each their own...I don't mind USC that much, probably because I know a lot of people that went to USC...I respect USC more than any other rivalry

 

I HATE Michigan and Stanford though. Couple that with the fact that the gf went to Cal, and the hate just intensified hahaa

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Maybe.

But decades ago Harvard was winning national championships in football. Minnesota was winning championships in football. Yale won 17 national championships. Now there are programs that have fallen and not gotten up.

Pinnacles come and go. ND is climbing. Not where it was, but realistically in the discussion now, and things are looking up.

Times change, administrations change, football changes. Alabama will fall when Saban moves on. USC??? Their best years were in the 60's and 70's. Early 2000's were a bit of an aberration historically.

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/

 

Not sure if this really needs to be debated to be honest since I think people are really saying the same things but are using different time horizons to frame their point of view:

 

If one assumes the following:

 

1) ND is not at the same level from a national perspective that it used to be in the past when it was the team (or at least one of the teams) to beat.

 

2) That said, ND has positioned itself back into the "discussion" as at least a regular Top 15-20 program under Kelly after operating at a level below that since after Holtz left.

 

3) The designation of CFB elite changes over time and Bama and OSU are currently considered the elite teams due primarily to Saban and Meyer.

 

4) USC under Carroll used to be the team to beat until he left for Seahawks, sanctions, etc. It has slipped to a top 20 program as opposed to a top 5 program since then.

 

5) For a long time, Stanford was a doormat but has become a consistent top ten program (again - Pop Warner) due to Harbaugh and Shaw.

 

Then, I believe that the various USC/Stanford statements are really saying this:

 

In the context of the last 10 years, being competitive with Stanford is a good thing since their program has been at a level above ND's (& USC) during that time (admittedly below Bama and OSU though). To use a Weis phrase, the needle is pointing up. On the other hand, if one zooms out time-wise, ND is still below the level of success experienced when it had Hall of Fame coaches.

Edited by jbrown_9999
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