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Has Stanford replaced ND?


Handsome Jack
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the longer stanford is good, the bigger of a threat they become. kids get a chance at an ivy league level school, that is now consistently good at football, and is in california. i saw some crazy stat on a different site where a ridiculously high percent of recruits who get accepted to stanford go. like 90% or something crazy. i understand that those who are truly interested are those who would apply, but still, it is crazy to think about.

 

To me their biggest issue is their fanbase. You watch games and the stadium is half full.

 

So if 90% of the HS football players that are accepted go, then they are only accepting, say, 30 applications each year. That is a small pool considering the amount of talent that is out there. Granted, that pool is part of ND's target demographic (kids that excel both on and off the field), but Stanford can only target so many of them given their admission requirements.

 

Given the point you made about their lack of a fanbase and inability to fill a stadium, I don't see them relaxing the admission Standards anytime soon... it simply wont gain them anything. They are already good and people don't seem to care.

Edited by MyFightingIrish
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Honestly, I thought Stanford would tank under Shaw, that was wishful thinking because I really don't like him. They haven't, and that is ok. Success for Stanford IS success for ND, that is something people are glossing over. Another academically strenuous school enjoying success is a good thing, it shows athletes that it is something that can be done, and ND is enjoying success at the same level. The 40 year decision speech cuts both ways, a degree from Stanford is more prestigious than a degree from ND in a lot of fields, heck, they don't even really share the same kind of academic programs. ND is a liberal arts school right? Stanford is well known for it's computer science and engineering graduates, which is pretty crazy considering that Cal is right across the bay and it has a stellar engineering programming also.

 

Anyways, I digest. Shaw will leave and the Harbaugh effect (Currently in effect in *spit* Ann Arbor) will fade and they will go back to a middling major school while ND continues to recover from the last two decades of bad coaching hires (Not including Kelly in this). Stanford will not enjoy sustained success, not over the next 20 years.

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When you guys say ND has more $ what do you mean?

 

Endowments:

Stanford $22.2 billion

ND $10 billion

 

Referring to the cash value of the football program. ND is currently #2 on that list valued at 127 million.

 

Stanford is less than half that and doesn't show up on the top 20 list for program value.

 

Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2015/12/22/college-footballs-most-valuable-teams-2015-texas-notre-dame-and-tennessee/#4f9759915130

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Referring to the cash value of the football program. ND is currently #2 on that list valued at 127 million.

 

Stanford is less than half that and doesn't show up on the top 20 list for program value.

 

Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2015/12/22/college-footballs-most-valuable-teams-2015-texas-notre-dame-and-tennessee/#4f9759915130

 

I think endowment is the actual proper measure here, though the numbers are pretty much immaterial at this level. But if the numbers were ever so slightly smaller we might have to worry about giving out scholarships across the many sports ND gives scholarships for, paying for visits, recruiting, etc... as well as improving facilities and everything else.

 

Truth is, at NDs level they can afford to do as they please without putting a dent into the coffers.

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In the history of college football... no way.

However, what really counts now and days? RECENT HISTORY. What's more relevant the shriveled up prune shouting, "Be quiet... back in my day..." or the actual college student who is shouting and having a good time? I'd say the latter. With this in mind I'd say that Stanford is winning the current generation. They do have a slight edge in that they can win a conference and to me that helps. I'm one of the few who thinks ND should join a damn conference.

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In the history of college football... no way.

However, what really counts now and days? RECENT HISTORY. What's more relevant the shriveled up prune shouting, "Be quiet... back in my day..." or the actual college student who is shouting and having a good time? I'd say the latter. With this in mind I'd say that Stanford is winning the current generation. They do have a slight edge in that they can win a conference and to me that helps. I'm one of the few who thinks ND should join a damn conference.

 

 

Exactly. Nobody today cares about what UCLA did in basketball in the sixties and seventues. You can't just point at history anymore.

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Honestly, I thought Stanford would tank under Shaw, that was wishful thinking because I really don't like him. They haven't, and that is ok. Success for Stanford IS success for ND, that is something people are glossing over. Another academically strenuous school enjoying success is a good thing, it shows athletes that it is something that can be done, and ND is enjoying success at the same level. The 40 year decision speech cuts both ways, a degree from Stanford is more prestigious than a degree from ND in a lot of fields, heck, they don't even really share the same kind of academic programs. ND is a liberal arts school right? Stanford is well known for it's computer science and engineering graduates, which is pretty crazy considering that Cal is right across the bay and it has a stellar engineering programming also.

 

Anyways, I digest. Shaw will leave and the Harbaugh effect (Currently in effect in *spit* Ann Arbor) will fade and they will go back to a middling major school while ND continues to recover from the last two decades of bad coaching hires (Not including Kelly in this). Stanford will not enjoy sustained success, not over the next 20 years.

 

I admit that I was in the same boat regarding Shaw, but he's doing pretty good there. I'm glad Stanford is doing well for the same reasons. Also it helps ND's SOS, and let's face it it's been a very good game to watch as a fan for the last 4-5 years.

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Are you guys forgetting that our current coach took this team to the title game a few years back and was 4 pts from the playoff this year? ND hasnt been as consistent, but Stanford hasnt won any titles recently either. Yes, the conference championship has some value, but both ND and Stanford are in the tier just below elite IMO. Neither is Bama right now, and neither is trending downward... We are splitting hairs. In that context I do think you have to consider history and program strength. Stanford hasnt overtaken ND in anything.

 

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Are you guys forgetting that our current coach took this team to the title game a few years back and was 4 pts from the playoff this year? ND hasnt been as consistent, but Stanford hasnt won any titles recently either. Yes, the conference championship has some value, but both ND and Stanford are in the tier just below elite IMO. Neither is Bama right now, and neither is trending downward... We are splitting hairs. In that context I do think you have to consider history and program strength. Stanford hasnt overtaken ND in anything.

 

Sent from my LGMS345 using Tapatalk

 

Conference yikes and BCS bowl victories mean a lot. They are getting them. We are not.

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Kelly is 47-18 the last 5 seasons, shaw is 54-14. Stanford has been in 4 big time bowls in that time and is 2-2 while we have been in 2 and are 0-2.

 

As was mentioned above they are pretty even programs right now both just under that elite tier imo.

 

I don't have enough time to look at timelines and records but Shaw took over for a coach that went to the NFL and went to the Super Bowl while Kelly took over for someone who then failed at Kansas. I am guessing that Shaw's record five years ago had a tailwind while Kelly had somewhat of a headwind.

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I don't have enough time to look at timelines and records but Shaw took over for a coach that went to the NFL and went to the Super Bowl while Kelly took over for someone who then failed at Kansas. I am guessing that Shaw's record five years ago had a tailwind while Kelly had somewhat of a headwind.

 

Very good point.

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Conference yikes and BCS bowl victories mean a lot. They are getting them. We are not.

 

I think BCS bowl games over Iowa and an 8-6 Wisconsin team are a little different than playing Alabama and Ohio St. Would you feel differently had ND gotten Iowa and Stanford gotten OSU this year?

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I think BCS bowl games over Iowa and an 8-6 Wisconsin team are a little different than playing Alabama and Ohio St. Would you feel differently had ND gotten Iowa and Stanford gotten OSU this year?

 

Yes. Nobody cares or remembers who you beat, but they remember Rose bowl or Orange Bowl champions and the rings that the coaches and players have.

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I think the OP original question has been answered. Nd has experienced a drought in the past few decades but some recent success. Stanford has won a couple "big bowl games", but they havent won a title either. So given that they have similar records and a nearly even split over the past decade, how can you conclude that Stanford has somehow replaced ND in the CFB landscape? I'm simply not seeing it.

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Yes. Nobody cares or remembers who you beat, but they remember Rose bowl or Orange Bowl champions and the rings that the coaches and players have.

 

I disagree. While as a fan of a team I would obviously like them to win big football games, I think while attempting to objectively compare two teams you have to look at who they beat. You can't say "Stanford won the Pac-12 and the rose bowl they're better" without considering the fact that the Pac-12 has had a lot of perineal powers (USC, UCLA even Oregon) turn out some very disappointing seasons recently and then they have played an 8-6 Wisconsin and an overrated Iowa team in the Rose Bowls.

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I'd say not. I know we haven't won since 88, but Stanford last won a championship in 1940. Plus, we are split even with them in the last ten years. So Football wise, no. I guess if I'm honest with myself, they have won better playoff games then us lately. But that shouldn't matter. If that was how we judge teams then Boise St has jumped us.

 

As for other sports, I think Vegas said it best, we have had multiple teams that have won championships, been in the championship l, or are ranked in the top 25.

 

For money, ND is one of the only two major Catholic Universities. They have gobs of money from that alone.

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Let me help with some perspective. They have won 5 of the last 7 against us. We have 5 losses and 4 wins in bowl games since 2006. During the same period they have 4 wins and 3 losses in bowl games.

 

What perspective is this? You picked an arbitrary number of years to prove your point. Why seven years? If you pick four years the record is 2-2 and ND has been to a national championship and another BCS game. And like I said earlier had Stanford gotten OSU and ND gotten Iowa this year the results would have probably been similar.

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