Jump to content

Is EG too short?


Recommended Posts

As all hell broke loose and the epic comeback went for not...

 

I kept asking...Is EG not good enough or does his line of sight keep getting blurred?

 

Kid is an unbelievable talent but when a must-have throw is there he struggles.

 

Does he not have "it" or is it his short stature that screw sh*t up?

 

I think it's size...but I am willing to listen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0819/mag_lpot-wilson01jr_576.jpg

 

http://inleague.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/21/files/2013/02/Brees.jpg

 

Sometimes, people just have all the bad luck. Golson had bad luck with the first two INTs and the last one should not even been counted as an INT.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Sometimes, people just have all the bad luck. Golson had bad luck with the first two INTs and the last one should not even been counted as an INT.

 

The first two INTs actually were BKs fault. The lineman know who is the first receiver and where the passing lane is. They are supposed to be taught to not let that DL there to get his arms up. Either tie him up or cut block him down. Or OL did neither nor did they try either both times.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The first two INTs actually were BKs fault. The lineman know who is the first receiver and where the passing lane is. They are supposed to be taught to not let that DL there to get his arms up. Either tie him up or cut block him down. Or OL did neither nor did they try either both times.

 

This.

 

It is just a lack of football understanding by many on the board. Two of the 5 turnovers were on Golson.

 

1 was on Robinson. 2 on the OL.

Link to post
Share on other sites
No he's not to short, just not smart!. He handles the ball like a high school kid and throws picks on second down at the five when you have two more plays. Threw it right to them. That ball must be thrown away. Very dumb

 

As a high school coach...I'm highly offended!!!

 

Our kids would never handle the ball the way EG does...the ball is GOLD!

Link to post
Share on other sites
The first two INTs actually were BKs fault. The lineman know who is the first receiver and where the passing lane is. They are supposed to be taught to not let that DL there to get his arms up. Either tie him up or cut block him down. Or OL did neither nor did they try either both times.

 

BK's fault??? Ridiculous...

Link to post
Share on other sites
The first two INTs actually were BKs fault. The lineman know who is the first receiver and where the passing lane is. They are supposed to be taught to not let that DL there to get his arms up. Either tie him up or cut block him down. Or OL did neither nor did they try either both times.

 

Do you honesty believe that BK hasn't taught Golson to understand that before he releases the ball he makes sure that there isn't a lineman in the passing lane? This is simply a lack of execution by Golson. I don't know why so many people can't grasp it.

 

Kelly plainly stated in his PC that Golson saw these looks all week in practice and that he executed poorly. Why is it so hard for people to understand this? Golson threw the ball into clogged passing lanes. He's either going to stop throwing into clogged passing lanes or the same thing is going to happen time and time again.

 

The book is out on Golson's weaknesses. Defenses are going to blitz him, expect him to throw slants and D coordinators are going to teach their linemen to avoid getting cut and get their hands up. It's up to Golson to understand this and stop throwing into clogged passing lanes when they exist. If he doesn't recognize when not to throw the football, expect more of the same.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Height or not (and if Golson is really 6' or even 5'11" then I am doubting the listed heights of the 6'5" and 6'6" OL and TEs...they must be more like 6'7" or 6'8"), Golson handling the ball like a loaf of bread has been a consistent problem since he arrived.

 

Judging by Kelly's history and willingness to switch QBs, I would say Everett is playing these last 3 games for the chance to come back as a 5th year.

 

I know that sounds crazy to even suggest it, but after that post-game presser evisceration by Kelly; and the previous 4 years where Golson never saw the field as a freshman, led the team to a MNC in '12, got himself thrown out of school for cheating, and then came back as a wildly talented and wildly inconsistent player....I really do think Golson's future is riding on the next 3 games, 4 if you count whatever backwater non-consequential bowl game we end up being sent off to.

 

If he returns to the form he had in the early season, Kelly may decide to go one more season with Golson to chase a playoff berth....but IF and ONLY IF he is satisfied that Golson will change his ways and protect the ball better. I would not be surprised at all to see Zaire get game reps now that the playoffs are out of reach and the season is essentially reduced to a crap bowl game and 4-game referendum on the future. With Zaire sitting and burning up eligibility and Kizer to start his clock running too, the position is getting a log-jam of eligible, system-fitting QBs that previously were not available. In 2012 and 2013, Kelly had no option OTHER than Rees (unless everyone is willing to forget Hendrix short-hopping everything against USC). That is no longer the case in 2014 and beyond.

 

In 2012, Golson was raw and green and still had ball security issues, even though we seemed to survive those stretches better mainly because Kelly would pull Golson from the games. In 2014, Golson is a turnover waiting to happen ever since the 4th week of the season, culminating in the performance yesterday. Now, after imploding in the second biggest game of the year and in the game that was seen as a national referendum on the state of the program (right or wrong, perception is reality in the media and the way they will blister us with the final score only and not the details of how much different this blow out loss was compared to the last ND blow out loss to Alabama in the MNC), Golson is in the most precarious position he's been since he arrived on campus.

 

He is technically a senior. He is NOT guaranteed a 5th year. His play over the last 6 games has been as wildly inconsistent as he was much earlier in his career. It is make or break time for him; and Kelly really should have told him as much before that presser, or its an inexcusable gaffe and more OJT for the coach on surviving at a top tier program. I am relatively certain that Kelly and Golson had a talk after the game and before that press conference.

 

The quarterback ALWAYS gets more blame and more credit than is deserved, but I disagree that Everett was not responsible for the INTs that were tipped balls or thrown while being hit. He either missed or could not see open receivers earlier on both plays where he was hit and had the ball picked. He simply held the ball too long and while that does not 100% excuse the OL from a bad day as well, it IS the QB's responsibility to make good, quick decisions. Golson looked anything but "quick decisions" for long stretches of the last 6 weeks. He was also constantly throwing behind receivers - Koyack in particular saved him from another pick with a great catch behind his body. Those are fundamentals that lead to problems when no executed correctly by the QB. The TEAM shares in the execution errors, but the QB is the one who has to determine how long to hold the ball before is has to come out and at what angle and velocity it needs to be thrown. All of those decisions are on #5....and he failed in too many cases yesterday.

 

The Robinson tip drill pick 6 was a decent-to-borderline pass, and I will give that one 33% to Golson for not leading the WR sooner to allow a catch and run instead of forcing a catch and turn scenario for Robinson and 66% on #88 for doing what he has continued to do all year - fall down while attempting a catch. CRob has been doing that all year; and this time he not only went to the ground unnecessarily, he completed the trifecta by also batting the pass in the air and subsequently being totally unable to contest the ball because he was flat on his back. That is how a WR gets a reputation as being "soft" or "finesse".

 

The fumbles are 100% on Everett and they are maddening.

 

The spin move he tries to use to evade the rush is not working like it did in high school or earlier in his college days because its on film and ANYONE playing ND will have seen it many times. The fact that it is so much less effective should be telling him that just like a MLB batter who starts hot and then finds pitchers really hitting his week spots, Golson's tendencies are KNOWN and he either changes or continues to get owned as a result. The ball security he displays is atrocious....constantly away from his body, constantly held in one hand, constantly extending the ball in traffic.

 

Those issues lead to the possibility of turnovers and lately those possibilities have become realities. That is clearly something he has been coached to avoid, but he believes in his heart that he is an "instinct player" and when the situation gets heated and demands quick response, he throws the coaching out the window and reverts to what he has always done. That is the tell-tale sign of a player who is not coachable and who will be self-limiting in their performance. They will stagnate and their results will get worse with time. In the NFL these kind of players are out of the league in 1-2 years or if they are lucky, they are Jay Cutler.

 

Bottom line for Golson is that if he plays like crap in the last few games, his future is an ND degree and maybe a look in the CFL and I would expect Zaire to beat out Kizer for the starting role on a stacked team next year (I would also expect a lot of playing time for Zaire in these last 3 games). If Golson plays well, and shows REAL growth from this debacle, then he may be back to pilot a real run at a playoff berth in 2015.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

The fumbles are 100% on Everett and they are maddening.

 

The spin move he tries to use to evade the rush is not working like it did in high school or earlier in his college days because its on film and ANYONE playing ND will have seen it many times. The fact that it is so much less effective should be telling him that just like a MLB batter who starts hot and then finds pitchers really hitting his week spots, Golson's tendencies are KNOWN and he either changes or continues to get owned as a result. The ball security he displays is atrocious....constantly away from his body, constantly held in one hand, constantly extending the ball in traffic.

 

Those issues lead to the possibility of turnovers and lately those possibilities have become realities. That is clearly something he has been coached to avoid, but he believes in his heart that he is an "instinct player" and when the situation gets heated and demands quick response, he throws the coaching out the window and reverts to what he has always done. That is the tell-tale sign of a player who is not coachable and who will be self-limiting in their performance. They will stagnate and their results will get worse with time. In the NFL these kind of players are out of the league in 1-2 years or if they are lucky, they are Jay Cutler. .

 

Really hard to argue with your logic, and you bring real issues of Golson's coachability in your post that have not been discussed much. Interesting and thoughtful post.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you honesty believe that BK hasn't taught Golson to understand that before he releases the ball he makes sure that there isn't a lineman in the passing lane? This is simply a lack of execution by Golson. I don't know why so many people can't grasp it.

 

Kelly plainly stated in his PC that Golson saw these looks all week in practice and that he executed poorly. Why is it so hard for people to understand this? Golson threw the ball into clogged passing lanes. He's either going to stop throwing into clogged passing lanes or the same thing is going to happen time and time again.

 

The book is out on Golson's weaknesses. Defenses are going to blitz him, expect him to throw slants and D coordinators are going to teach their linemen to avoid getting cut and get their hands up. It's up to Golson to understand this and stop throwing into clogged passing lanes when they exist. If he doesn't recognize when not to throw the football, expect more of the same.

 

Exactly, and this is my bigger concern regarding EG. He has all the physical talent in the world, but does he have what it takes between the ears? Perhaps he's still maturing and the mental game will come but he's not a freshman anymore and he is still making a lot of mental errors that coaches can only help so much.

Link to post
Share on other sites
No he's not to short, just not smart!. He handles the ball like a high school kid and throws picks on second down at the five when you have two more plays. Threw it right to them. That ball must be thrown away. Very dumb

 

^^^^^^^ Simple, concise and glaringly correct.

Link to post
Share on other sites
No he's not to short, just not smart!. He handles the ball like a high school kid and throws picks on second down at the five when you have two more plays. Threw it right to them. That ball must be thrown away. Very dumb

 

he was throwing to amir who ran a smash route. golson got hit as the ball came out of his arm. watch the replay. still his fault was wasnt necessarily where he meant for ball to go.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Height or not (and if Golson is really 6' or even 5'11" then I am doubting the listed heights of the 6'5" and 6'6" OL and TEs...they must be more like 6'7" or 6'8"), Golson handling the ball like a loaf of bread has been a consistent problem since he arrived.

 

Judging by Kelly's history and willingness to switch QBs, I would say Everett is playing these last 3 games for the chance to come back as a 5th year.

 

I know that sounds crazy to even suggest it, but after that post-game presser evisceration by Kelly; and the previous 4 years where Golson never saw the field as a freshman, led the team to a MNC in '12, got himself thrown out of school for cheating, and then came back as a wildly talented and wildly inconsistent player....I really do think Golson's future is riding on the next 3 games, 4 if you count whatever backwater non-consequential bowl game we end up being sent off to.

 

If he returns to the form he had in the early season, Kelly may decide to go one more season with Golson to chase a playoff berth....but IF and ONLY IF he is satisfied that Golson will change his ways and protect the ball better. I would not be surprised at all to see Zaire get game reps now that the playoffs are out of reach and the season is essentially reduced to a crap bowl game and 4-game referendum on the future. With Zaire sitting and burning up eligibility and Kizer to start his clock running too, the position is getting a log-jam of eligible, system-fitting QBs that previously were not available. In 2012 and 2013, Kelly had no option OTHER than Rees (unless everyone is willing to forget Hendrix short-hopping everything against USC). That is no longer the case in 2014 and beyond.

 

In 2012, Golson was raw and green and still had ball security issues, even though we seemed to survive those stretches better mainly because Kelly would pull Golson from the games. In 2014, Golson is a turnover waiting to happen ever since the 4th week of the season, culminating in the performance yesterday. Now, after imploding in the second biggest game of the year and in the game that was seen as a national referendum on the state of the program (right or wrong, perception is reality in the media and the way they will blister us with the final score only and not the details of how much different this blow out loss was compared to the last ND blow out loss to Alabama in the MNC), Golson is in the most precarious position he's been since he arrived on campus.

 

He is technically a senior. He is NOT guaranteed a 5th year. His play over the last 6 games has been as wildly inconsistent as he was much earlier in his career. It is make or break time for him; and Kelly really should have told him as much before that presser, or its an inexcusable gaffe and more OJT for the coach on surviving at a top tier program. I am relatively certain that Kelly and Golson had a talk after the game and before that press conference.

 

The quarterback ALWAYS gets more blame and more credit than is deserved, but I disagree that Everett was not responsible for the INTs that were tipped balls or thrown while being hit. He either missed or could not see open receivers earlier on both plays where he was hit and had the ball picked. He simply held the ball too long and while that does not 100% excuse the OL from a bad day as well, it IS the QB's responsibility to make good, quick decisions. Golson looked anything but "quick decisions" for long stretches of the last 6 weeks. He was also constantly throwing behind receivers - Koyack in particular saved him from another pick with a great catch behind his body. Those are fundamentals that lead to problems when no executed correctly by the QB. The TEAM shares in the execution errors, but the QB is the one who has to determine how long to hold the ball before is has to come out and at what angle and velocity it needs to be thrown. All of those decisions are on #5....and he failed in too many cases yesterday.

 

The Robinson tip drill pick 6 was a decent-to-borderline pass, and I will give that one 33% to Golson for not leading the WR sooner to allow a catch and run instead of forcing a catch and turn scenario for Robinson and 66% on #88 for doing what he has continued to do all year - fall down while attempting a catch. CRob has been doing that all year; and this time he not only went to the ground unnecessarily, he completed the trifecta by also batting the pass in the air and subsequently being totally unable to contest the ball because he was flat on his back. That is how a WR gets a reputation as being "soft" or "finesse".

 

The fumbles are 100% on Everett and they are maddening.

 

The spin move he tries to use to evade the rush is not working like it did in high school or earlier in his college days because its on film and ANYONE playing ND will have seen it many times. The fact that it is so much less effective should be telling him that just like a MLB batter who starts hot and then finds pitchers really hitting his week spots, Golson's tendencies are KNOWN and he either changes or continues to get owned as a result. The ball security he displays is atrocious....constantly away from his body, constantly held in one hand, constantly extending the ball in traffic.

 

Those issues lead to the possibility of turnovers and lately those possibilities have become realities. That is clearly something he has been coached to avoid, but he believes in his heart that he is an "instinct player" and when the situation gets heated and demands quick response, he throws the coaching out the window and reverts to what he has always done. That is the tell-tale sign of a player who is not coachable and who will be self-limiting in their performance. They will stagnate and their results will get worse with time. In the NFL these kind of players are out of the league in 1-2 years or if they are lucky, they are Jay Cutler.

 

Bottom line for Golson is that if he plays like crap in the last few games, his future is an ND degree and maybe a look in the CFL and I would expect Zaire to beat out Kizer for the starting role on a stacked team next year (I would also expect a lot of playing time for Zaire in these last 3 games). If Golson plays well, and shows REAL growth from this debacle, then he may be back to pilot a real run at a playoff berth in 2015.

 

I agree, but (as posted elsewhere) think that there should be a change next week for the following reason(s):

 

CBK has taken the more calm approach with EG this season, but since he came back from Whitfield’s Quarterback Academy, he does not seem to be listening. The attention level and body language on the sideline after a turnover is telling. He seems to be disregarding the coaching and looking away most of the time. Small point, perhaps, but indicative of a stubbornness and a belief in his own (considerable) skill set. While this is necessary for the position, to a point, it has developed into a glaring unwillingness to change that has too high a price.

 

Also there can’t be 2 sets of rules for performance - that destroys a team. If Hanratty, Bryant and other talented players (ok perhaps not as talented as EG) can ride the pine, so can he. That is why you recruit a 2-3 deep.

 

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results. For the good of the team, the program, and this young man - for 2014 and 2015 they need to get E G's attention, and talking to him, reasoning with him has not worked. Do you think Lou, Ara, or Frank would have put up with the lack of attention?

 

It is the perfect time (Northwestern - playoff shot gone) to let Zaire start. Different skill set, not as explosive a passing potential, but better ability to run the read option.

 

Better a Tony Rice than a jimmy clausen.

 

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Those issues lead to the possibility of turnovers and lately those possibilities have become realities. That is clearly something he has been coached to avoid, but he believes in his heart that he is an "instinct player" and when the situation gets heated and demands quick response, he throws the coaching out the window and reverts to what he has always done. That is the tell-tale sign of a player who is not coachable and who will be self-limiting in their performance. They will stagnate and their results will get worse with time. In the NFL these kind of players are out of the league in 1-2 years or if they are lucky, they are Jay Cutler.

 

Excellent post. I agree with pretty much everything you wrote.

 

The problem with Everett Golson is entirely mental. I'm sorry, but he simply doesn't strike me as being the sharpest tool in the shed. He obviously doesn't take well to coaching, or his ball security issues would be resolved by now. He clearly formed A LOT of bad habits during his high school days, and perhaps even earlier, which he still reverts back to when the bullets start flying.

 

The difference between EG and guys like Johnny Manziel, Russell Wilson and Drew Brees is that, unlike the other three, EG lacks the cleverness and ingenuity to think on his feet and make something out of nothing. Unfortunately, I doubt that he'll ever have that kind of ability.

Link to post
Share on other sites
He looked like Superman for the first 3 games of season. The last 6 he is the master of turnovers. What changed?

 

 

He isn't throwing the ball away like he was at the beginning of the season. I think all the fame went to his head and he is trying to do too much. If he can get back to his fundamentals he will be fine.

Link to post
Share on other sites
He looked like Superman for the first 3 games of season. The last 6 he is the master of turnovers. What changed?

 

Something happened in the Syracuse game I believe. He fumbled the ball away early and was just crushed a couple of times shortly after that by blitzing backers or twisting linemen, I forget which. He hasnt been the same ever since. He is hesitating, holding the ball longer and then he will rush or force things at other times. He also forgot how to slide or dive forward appropriately.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Height does make a difference for the QB, being able to immediately see over the line as the play is developing instead of waiting for passing lanes or lines of sight to open. EG's problems are now in his head, trying to do too much and being totally careless as stated earlier by others. I personally can't wait for Deshone Kizer at 6'4" to take over.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Dunno but he turns the ball over way too much.

 

Captain obvious.

tommy reese was never that bad.

 

don't think EG is to short. on the tipped passes the OL should have done a better job of taking the defenders knees out.

 

also on the INT on the first drive of the 3rd quarter, does anyone know what EG was trying to do?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Something happened in the Syracuse game I believe. He fumbled the ball away early and was just crushed a couple of times shortly after that by blitzing backers or twisting linemen, I forget which. He hasnt been the same ever since. He is hesitating, holding the ball longer and then he will rush or force things at other times. He also forgot how to slide or dive forward appropriately.

 

That's because George's rich kid QB camp doesn't feature getting the crap knocked out of you when trying to make decisions. There were plenty of DDers who thought the skills he learned at that camp would yield better results than the experience garnered from an entire season of playing football.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...