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In all honesty, I think there was some confusion here between some parties. Maybe not. I read the whole thread start to finish and that is the conclusion I came to.

 

FWIW.

 

I mentioned if it is meant to be the dome, why not put a silhoutted Mary on the side in her honor. That led to some decrying the religious implications of it, which led us to where we are now.

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It certainly is much less tacky to pray to one's deity/saint of choice for help and strength in some undertaking than to have a football team wear helmets with the Virgin Mary on them, yes.

 

I disagree and I can't find anything in the catechism that would make it wrong in the eyes of the church, and they are quite clear on the veneration of Mary through art.

 

Of course the debate can be made whether a football helmet can be considered "art", but I don't see anything strictly forbidding it.

 

And to be clear, I could be totally out of line on this, but as a Catholic who tries to stay well versed in the doctrines of the church, I don't see a problem.

 

If you can show me otherwise, I'd happily concede the point to you to save the dignity of our mother, but "If you can't see it, then I am not going to show you" isn't going to cut it.

 

FWIW, you don't pray to a saint, you ask them to pray for you. Small difference, but a significant one.

Edited by corysold
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As someone who sanded and taped up those old helmets to get them ready to paint, I have to say, these look awesome and I don't lament the managers being taken out of the equation. There were obviously major issues with paint chipping off the old helmets, and they looked ridiculous by the end of the game. Helping out with the helmets was a wonderful tradition to be a part of, but by the end of the season, your fingers would freeze as you'd try to prep them. The underclassmen attempting to become student managers will be pleased that they no longer need to tape.

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It certainly is much less tacky to pray to one's deity/saint of choice for help and strength in some undertaking than to have a football team wear helmets with the Virgin Mary on them, yes.

 

Erm, time out.....

 

That would be the Virgin Mary on top of the dome on the collar...

http://onefootdown.fantake.com/files/2011/03/223887.jpg

http://onefootdown.fantake.com/files/2011/03/ndc080f.jpg

 

 

This would be a mural of Jesus looking down on the stadium...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/TDJesus.jpg/800px-TDJesus.jpg

 

What's the problem again? It's not like a universities who's name is French for "Our Lady," should be expected to shy away from religious overtones....

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Post game victory celebration....

 

 

Anyone notice Kelly and Dayne seem to be having some kind of "heart to heart" at the end of this video. Like Kelly saying, "Sorry we couldn't get you into the game son" and Crist shaking his head and saying, "I understand Coach, no problem". NOT that this was the conversation but it sure looked that way.

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Anyone notice Kelly and Dayne seem to be having some kind of "heart to heart" at the end of this video. Like Kelly saying, "Sorry we couldn't get you into the game son" and Crist shaking his head and saying, "I understand Coach, no problem". NOT that this was the conversation but it sure looked that way.

 

That video was from last season, unless of course Kyle Rudolph is sneaking back into games this year.

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How is it any different than this?

 

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/723/crusaderss.jpg

 

 

First off the Crusades are actual war. Life-and-death war. Not a corporatized football game.

 

Second, many people consider the Crusades to have been extraordinarily tacky and embarrassing and offensive and wrong, on many levels. The people who fought the Crusades, leaders and men alike, were savages and are as children compared to both us and to many of the cultures that went before them and came after them. So citing the Crusades as your example of something being in good taste or acceptable isn't going to work.

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Anyone notice Kelly and Dayne seem to be having some kind of "heart to heart" at the end of this video. Like Kelly saying, "Sorry we couldn't get you into the game son" and Crist shaking his head and saying, "I understand Coach, no problem". NOT that this was the conversation but it sure looked that way.

 

 

 

Crist played against Purdue.

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First off the Crusades are actual war. Life-and-death war. Not a corporatized football game.

 

Second, many people consider the Crusades to have been extraordinarily tacky and embarrassing and offensive and wrong, on many levels. The people who fought the Crusades, leaders and men alike, were savages and are as children compared to both us and to many of the cultures that went before them and came after them. So citing the Crusades as your example of something being in good taste or acceptable isn't going to work.

 

The USC game is a war. Ask the 1977 team...

 

So glad you have an opinion on this. That's what this board is about. Sorry my ideas don't work for you but then again, I'm of my own mind, so what does it matter? :)

Edited by Rocketsan
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Erm, time out.....

 

That would be the Virgin Mary on top of the dome on the collar...

http://onefootdown.fantake.com/files/2011/03/223887.jpg

http://onefootdown.fantake.com/files/2011/03/ndc080f.jpg

 

 

This would be a mural of Jesus looking down on the stadium...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/TDJesus.jpg/800px-TDJesus.jpg

 

What's the problem again? It's not like a universities who's name is French for "Our Lady," should be expected to shy away from religious overtones....

 

 

 

Uh, the "TD Jesus" mural/mosaic is not football related at all. It's artwork on a (non-sport) building at a Catholic university. The football-relatedness of it is kind of a cute coincidental connection.

 

And the Virgin Mary is not on the uniform there. That's the dome. The reason the dome is on there is because it's the golden dome, and the fact that the tiny little indistinguishable detail on it on the uniform is a Virgin Mary statue is certainly not why it was included on the uniform. And a representation of the Virgin Mary would certainly never have been included in a conspicuous way on a modern ND uniform.

 

Sorry to harp on this, I had missed this post initially in reading it.

 

I was raised very Catholic. Even if I hadn't been, I think there are basic common sense things when it comes to the sacred vs the profane. No hard feelings.

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And the Virgin Mary is not on the uniform there. That's the dome. The reason the dome is on there is because it's the golden dome, and the fact that the tiny little indistinguishable detail on it on the uniform is a Virgin Mary statue is certainly not why it was included on the uniform. And a representation of the Virgin Mary would certainly never have been included in a conspicuous way on a modern ND uniform.

 

Even if I hadn't been, I think there are basic common sense things when it comes to the sacred vs the profane. No hard feelings.

 

You're right. You've proved your point. I promise I will not put a silhouette of Mary on the helmets this weekend...

 

Your next crusade brother should be to the Champion corporation because Mary surely does top the dome on those 1994 jerseys.

 

Your outrage should be that they made her look like a chess pawn. Now you've REALLY got something to be heated about...

 

http://i53.tinypic.com/ir82g5.jpg

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Uh, the "TD Jesus" mural/mosaic is not football related at all. It's artwork on a (non-sport) building at a Catholic university. The football-relatedness of it is kind of a cute coincidental connection.

 

And the Virgin Mary is not on the uniform there. That's the dome. The reason the dome is on there is because it's the golden dome, and the fact that the tiny little indistinguishable detail on it on the uniform is a Virgin Mary statue is certainly not why it was included on the uniform. And a representation of the Virgin Mary would certainly never have been included in a conspicuous way on a modern ND uniform.

 

Sorry to harp on this, I had missed this post initially in reading it.

 

I was raised very Catholic. Even if I hadn't been, I think there are basic common sense things when it comes to the sacred vs the profane. No hard feelings.

 

I hope this hasn't come across as negative in any way, I'm certainly glad to have open debate about this sort of thing.

 

I understand your point. To me, though, both shoulders of the jersey already essentially say "Our Lady", so it isn't as though some portrayal of Mary isn't already on the jersey. No, that is not a likeness in image, but not really that far off.

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No horse in this race, but I sure hope you are not an attorney PWT. You are disputing facts with semantics.

 

If its possible to get back on topic though, I LOVE the new helmets and would actually like to see the team come out in gold pants to match them, and Madonna blue jerseys.

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I hope this hasn't come across as negative in any way, I'm certainly glad to have open debate about this sort of thing.

 

I understand your point. To me, though, both shoulders of the jersey already essentially say "Our Lady", so it isn't as though some portrayal of Mary isn't already on the jersey. No, that is not a likeness in image, but not really that far off.

 

I guess I just can't understand his point...How can you disconnect the university from the football team, like they are separate entities? Notre Dame football is part of Notre Dame University....

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