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"U.S. government puts Notre Dame in its place"


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Mr Haugh is going to have to do better than that if he wants to be somebody in the progressive movement. You need some substance built in there David...People just aren't that ignorant anymore about what you are trying to do and they know what the DOE is about. Either get better or you might want to think about a career change. You're just preaching to the choir and that just won't help your side win the war.

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Mr Haugh is going to have to do better than that if he wants to be somebody in the progressive movement. You need some substance built in there David...People just aren't that ignorant anymore.

 

Alot of people watch Fox News, exact same thing.

Haugh writes for the anti-ND fan, he appeals to their hate of ND and because those types agree w/ him, his opinions become fact.

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Alot of people watch Fox News, exact same thing.

Haugh writes for the anti-ND fan, he appeals to their hate of ND and because those types agree w/ him, his opinions become fact.

 

Bingo!...at least the smarter ones watching Fox do...life isn't so simple as the next group of talking points...Regardless of party it's now time for the grownups to get back in charge...

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I'm not going to get into the left/right politics issue here. All I have to say is that this Haugh douchbag is just desperate to call anything a victory against ND, isn't he?

Edited by IanY77
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Six minutes (I'm a slow reader) I'll never get back. Gonna guess this guy is not a practicing Roman Catholic. Harboring a bit of a grudge, are we? Maybe a little of his investigative abilities should be directed toward self-examination.

 

Absolutely nothing new there. The ND police could have followed up quicker. We knew that. Someone should have nixed the scissor lift that day. Check. Floyd being told it is all or nothing? Seriously? That's something we should hang our heads about? "Breaking news since 1847," my butt. I used to like reading the Chicago Tribune. Now I like reading about its eventual demise.

 

Thanks for sharing that article. As a result, I know to never waste my time reading another article written by Haugh. His parents should have just named him "Jack" and made it official.

Edited by 2lakes
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Bingo!...at least the smarter ones watching Fox do...life isn't so simple as the next group of talking points...Regardless of party it's now time for the grownups to get back in charge...

 

I didn't know (actual) smart people watched Fox? Fox News that is...Fox that has Family Guy is great. Oh yeah...Notre Dame Football rules!

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The chick was from St. Marys. Shouldn't they be the ones to have policies in place? (I assume this is the SMC article) I hate SMC... Many of those girls will be the first to tell you they go to Notre Dame, until you really question them on it. Then, they say wellllll I actually go across the road.

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The chick was from St. Marys. Shouldn't they be the ones to have policies in place? (I assume this is the SMC article) I hate SMC... Many of those girls will be the first to tell you they go to Notre Dame, until you really question them on it. Then, they say wellllll I actually go across the road.

 

The guy's a hack. Don't worry about what he writes.

 

The fact is she could've reported it to the local police at any time. And ND was following up on it... so what if it took a couple days? Where's the kid going to go? He's not a flight risk and he was accused of touching her breasts (in account that was proved to have TONS of factual inaccuracies)... not a really time-sensitive matter like a robbery where every hour matters to make sure stolen merchandise isn't unloaded or a crime where evidence might go away or where someone might run.

 

The truth is ND did nothing wrong... the DOE didn't conclude that ND did anything wrong... and ND is making a really minor tweak to their policies under their own volition. If there was a big bombshell you would not have seen the mild-mannered ESPN/AP articles the other day that called it how it is.

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The Federal government is a joke. Maybe they should worry about the crimes committed in their jurisdiction... like those committed by Ben Bernanke, Alan Greenspan, Paul Volcker, Henry Paulson, Phil Gramm, Jim Leach, Thomas J. Bliley, Jr.and Tim Geithner.

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I didn't know (actual) smart people watched Fox? Fox News that is...

 

Hahahahah. Yeah, that's original. Not painting with too broad of a brush are you? The attack on FOX is getting so predictable, as to be nonsensical, and rarely is it fact-based. It's getting like the cry of racism when you dare to disagree with someone of a different race. I guess getting your "facts' from The Huffington post, Media Matters, The Daily KOS, or that bottomless pit of journalistic integrity, MSNBC is far more to your liking. Please, let's avoid the mindless talking points of the far left on a football message board, or for that matter, the far right. Maybe Notre Dame was a little too defensive about these matters, I don't know. A little introspection wouldn't hurt. Notre Dame's lawyers are no doubt as defensive minded as any other universities lawyers, and this isn't always a good thing. When you're wrong (not saying they are), then say it. If not, then they should be publicly adamant in their denials.

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Hahahahah. Yeah, that's original. Not painting with too broad of a brush are you? The attack on FOX is getting so predictable, as to be nonsensical, and rarely is it fact-based. It's getting like the cry of racism when you dare to disagree with someone of a different race. I guess getting your "facts' from The Huffington post, Media Matters, The Daily KOS, or that bottomless pit of journalistic integrity, MSNBC is far more to your liking. Please, let's avoid the mindless talking points of the far left on a football message board, or for that matter, the far right. Maybe Notre Dame was a little too defensive about these matters, I don't know. A little introspection wouldn't hurt. Notre Dame's lawyers are no doubt as defensive minded as any other universities lawyers, and this isn't always a good thing. When you're wrong (not saying they are), then say it. If not, then they should be publicly adamant in their denials.

 

Did you just write a whole paragraph about a subject and then say that it shouldn't be discussed....after you got your point across? OK. At least the Devil Channel is teaching you something.;)

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At least the Devil Channel is teaching you something.;)

 

Sometimes it's necessary to show by example for those who can't see it themselves, and btw..."Devil Channel." Really? I can't decide if that's more sad or hilarious.

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Notre Dame and the police could have done far more to show support for Lizzy and the Seeberg family. I am embarrassed at the way this was practically brushed away, and although I'll root for the Irish every Saturday, I have no plan to cheer for the young man any time he makes a great play. Wave, your comments about Lizzy and generalizations about SMC students are pitiful, irresponsible, and just plain incorrect.

 

All this said, David Haugh is a complete scandal whore. The guys sniffs out negative news about Notre Dame and absolutely runs with it. I don't know how he survived with such an M.O. when he was with the South Bend Tribune, and now he gets to do it with an even larger ND Alumni base through the Chicago Tribune. I have seen him contradict himself many times in the process and thus destroy his credibility. While I (amazingly) agree with many of his points in this column, it doesn't matter because he has no leg to stand on. Even in this case, he found some roundabout way to include the Declan and Floyd issues...even though they had nothing to do with his initial story.

 

Mr. He-Haugh, for everyone's sake on every side of every issue you pretend to know about: shut up and let others talk it out.

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Notre Dame and the police could have done far more to show support for Lizzy and the Seeberg family. I am embarrassed at the way this was practically brushed away, and although I'll root for the Irish every Saturday, I have no plan to cheer for the young man any time he makes a great play. Wave, your comments about Lizzy and generalizations about SMC students are pitiful, irresponsible, and just plain incorrect.

 

With all due respect, you act like you have a good grasp of the situation but do not objectively consider what happened. Point by point:

 

"Notre Dame and the police could have done far more to show support for Lizzy and the Seeberg family."

 

No. In the post-Duke lacrosse scandal era of "sexual assault" I think it is extremely good judgement to not take ANY actions until all facts have been gathered in a judicious matter. What you're asking for (a show of support of the accused) is just another name for a rush to judgement of "guilty!" by supporting one side over the other. Duke did this and ended up terminating the season, kicking kids out of school, professors refusing to let accused students take their classes, etc. all when the kids did absolutely nothing wrong. This all happened because they didn't want bad PR if it appeared they weren't acting fast enough. KUDOS to Notre Dame for not taking such an approach. Especially with all of the factual inaccuracies in the accounts of Ms. Seeberg, the fact that she had a long history of mental instability and, most importantly, wasn't a Notre Dame student. Notre Dame and NDSP owe NOTHING to her and if she didn't feel like her complaint was being taken seriously enough she could have reported it to the local SBPD at any time she felt like it.

 

"I am embarrassed at the way this was practically brushed away, and although I'll root for the Irish every Saturday, I have no plan to cheer for the young man any time he makes a great play."

 

How? How were they "brushed away?" Let's look at a chain of events:

 

1. She accused a player of touching her breasts.

2. They took her to get a full kit done and took her statement.

3. They tried to contact the player.

 

If your argument is that they were taking too long to contact the player... how? Why? Why does it matter if they got ahold of the player that very day or within a week? He was not a flight risk. He wasn't accused of a violent crime or robbery or any kind of time-critical offense. So the idea that NDSP moved too slowly is, frankly, pretty ignorant of how police investigations work.

 

"Wave, your comments about Lizzy and generalizations about SMC students are pitiful, irresponsible, and just plain incorrect."

 

Now this is just total bullshit. There are NO GENERALIZATIONS in pointing out that she had serious and well documented mental issues and was prescribed hardcore anti-depressants. On a personal note, my girlfriend is from Northbrook and her family goes to the same church as the Seebergs. At first they were appalled at what all at happened and felt ND had seriously dropped the ball. After taking the time to consider the facts of the case, and with their knowledge of Lizzy's serious problems that had caused her to shit schools, etc., they realized that in no way, shape or form could her death be put on anyone's hands but her own. You simply do not kill yourself over someone trying to go to 2nd base and you saying "no" unless you have deep issues. Considering the facts of someone's psychotic issues is NOT a generalization. It is a medical fact admissible in court for crying out loud.

 

---------

 

On a final note, if you did not follow the Duke lacrosse scandal closely I would suggest doing a Google search and/or going to Wikipedia. ND's only fault here (if any) was not explaining to Lizzy precisely the timeline of how the investigation would go and what she could expect. Beyond that, they did everything 100% right and avoided ruining a person's life based on the sensationalism of the media and the flawed account of a person with questionable (at best) credibility. Duke didn't do that with the account of Crystal Magnum and caved to the media/David Haugh's of the world. In the process they ruined the lives of many an innocent young man and student athlete.

 

If we do not learn from history we are doomed to repeat it.

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With all due respect, you act like you have a good grasp of the situation...

 

I appreciate your "due respect" if it is truly intended, but I'm pretty sure you can't claim you know more than the rest of posters here about the situation -- though I know most of them will agree with you thanks to that same lack of grasp. Look, there was a long thread about all this back in the fall. It contained the same blame-the-victim, he-said-she-said-means-he's-clear themes that I am seeing above. I wish people would consider the Freeberg family's perspective with greater care, but I learned in the fall that such is a steep uphill climb.

 

The funny thing about your reaction, NDinVA, is that my posting goal above was to deride David Haugh, not to engage what I'm sure will be further wrath about my view on the sexual assault.

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I appreciate your "due respect" if it is truly intended, but I'm pretty sure you can't claim you know more than the rest of posters here about the situation -- though I know most of them will agree with you thanks to that same lack of grasp. Look, there was a long thread about all this back in the fall. It contained the same blame-the-victim, he-said-she-said-means-he's-clear themes that I am seeing above. I wish people would consider the Freeberg family's perspective with greater care, but I learned in the fall that such is a steep uphill climb.

 

The funny thing about your reaction, NDinVA, is that my posting goal above was to deride David Haugh, not to engage what I'm sure will be further wrath about my view on the sexual assault.

 

It was intended and sincerely meant. I agreed with everything you had to say in the latter half, just not the parts I bolded and responded to. I think you're right that this has been debated ad nauseum on message boards... I just don't like the sentiment that ND "owed" anything to Ms. Seeberg when she wasn't a ND student, could've taken her complaint to SBPD at any time she wanted if she didn't feel NDSP was doing a good enough job, and history (Duke lacrosse) has shown us that prematurely taking the "victim's" side has extremely dire consequences.

 

We will agree to disagree.

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Hahahahah. Yeah, that's original. Not painting with too broad of a brush are you? The attack on FOX is getting so predictable, as to be nonsensical, and rarely is it fact-based. It's getting like the cry of racism when you dare to disagree with someone of a different race. I guess getting your "facts' from The Huffington post, Media Matters, The Daily KOS, or that bottomless pit of journalistic integrity, MSNBC is far more to your liking. Please, let's avoid the mindless talking points of the far left on a football message board, or for that matter, the far right.

 

Mention of Fox News, enter the Crypt Keeper. My bad, knew it the second I hit reply. Was honestly not looking to get political, just couldn't come up w/ a better example. Oh well, Haugh's a media "ho" either way you punch the ticket.

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I will say that my comments were generalizations, but after a disproportionate amount of friends being accused of rape and sexual assault at ND, only to have those claims retracted once the shit started to hit the fan, you can see how I have an extremely negative view of the situation. There is a normality that is absent at that school... Each time a friend was accused of rape, he about shit himself and pissed himself knowing he was going to have to confront the law and more importantly, tell his parents in graphic detail what happened and why it wasn't rape. SMC was a legitimate school with high achieving girls at one time. Not after ND stole it's crop, though. Ugghhh... I stick by my statements.

 

Also, in terms of Lizzy, somebody did a helluva job articulating how touching a girl's boob doesn't force her to commit suicide. I fully support that post. And, that alllll brings me back to reliving the Abe Elam, Justin Smith, etc "rape"... I'm going to stop there, though.

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