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What do you watch everyday that is socialism at its finest?


scintrigue
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ok... you didnt say that, nor did i direct the original post to it... i attributed it to you after your second post defending it... sorry i cant imagine how that could have happened... some of use are not here keeping score... this is the second day in a row now where i am going to simply start ignoring you, congrats... you have raised the level of debate yet again.

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ok... you didnt say that, nor did i direct the original post to it... i attributed it to you after your second post defending it... sorry i cant imagine how that could have happened... some of use are not here keeping score... this is the second day in a row now where i am going to simply start ignoring you, congrats... you have raised the level of debate yet again.

 

One last word, I wasn't debating you. I was pointing out that you made a back-handed remark to another poster, who I'm sure didn't appreciate being piled on by you and two others. People should feel free to post what they want without being belittled. That poster is probably now reluctant to post other thoughts because of the way you and others responded.

 

Please ignore me from now on. Isn't there an "ignore poster" function at DD? That way you wouldn't see any of my posts and we would both be content.

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1. ) Okay but many companies for example nationalized car companies hire workers that deem qualified. I am not sure where I get your point? Your thinking of communism where one might be plucked out of school and told they are going to build widgets and another is picked to be a doctor. Thats not socialism.

 

In some cases yes, I do not think I should have to pay 150 thousand dollars in student loan debt because my parents weren't as rich as the next guy. And I only use student loans strictly for tuition nothing else, I run a business and goto school. If everyone pays an extra 5-10% so everyone has the opportunity to better themselves through a higher education I have no problem with that. For health care as well, as long as we tax fast food and the other poison that is making people sick and fat. So if you wanna eat that sh!t you pay for the health care.

 

Reagan was the first to tax cigarettes to high levels there is virtually no difference in the health risks of Mcdonalds or Newports. Actually Mickey D's is prolly worse. The french be smokin and drinkin and livin just fine.

 

 

So this socialism drive by you is fueled by your frustration that you've had it harder than others to pay for college and are afraid you might not have health care? Here's the difference between me and you SCINTRIGUE. I don't count on other people to provide things for me. I do it myself. The thought process that I should pay 5-10% more so that you have an easier life is not something I'm interested in. I am on the road, away from my family 215 days a year. I miss family functions, T ball games, ND events etc. I work every single holiday. I take educated risks to reap rewards. I work 15 hour days. I make the sacrafices. I do all of that because it provides me with the life I want to live. For that reason, YOU have no RIGHT to a dime of my money. Harsh? Maybe. But if you don't like your situation....work harder. The answer in this country has always been to work harder. That is why we are the most productive country in the world. The answer is NOT to create a culture of entitlement. If you haven't earned it, you don't deserve it. It really IS that simple.

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So this socialism drive by you is fueled by your frustration that you've had it harder than others to pay for college and are afraid you might not have health care? Here's the difference between me and you SCINTRIGUE. I don't count on other people to provide things for me. I do it myself. The thought process that I should pay 5-10% more so that you have an easier life is not something I'm interested in. I am on the road, away from my family 215 days a year. I miss family functions, T ball games, ND events etc. I work every single holiday. I take educated risks to reap rewards. I work 15 hour days. I make the sacrafices. I do all of that because it provides me with the life I want to live. For that reason, YOU have no RIGHT to a dime of my money. Harsh? Maybe. But if you don't like your situation....work harder. The answer in this country has always been to work harder. That is why we are the most productive country in the world. The answer is NOT to create a culture of entitlement. If you haven't earned it, you don't deserve it. It really IS that simple.

 

You playing the "I work harder then you card" does not really hold up. I owned 2 houses before I was 21, I run my own business and am going to school right now for my doctrate degree.

 

You don't have to worry about paying for me, i'll get mine. But education is the single most important thing to spur innovation, a better economy, lower crime rates, lower abortion rates, healthier people, ect. ect. I could go on for days. You pay a lot in taxes right now and higher costs in things like insurance because of the lack of higher education in our society. So the goal would be that yes you would pay 5-10% more in taxes for everyone to have an opportunity for higher education, but it should equal out with a better society as a whole.

 

And you should stop with the me, me, me stuff. You were not born more special then anyone else. You were not blessed with any different inante abilities then the next person. You had people that helped you along the way, you were blessed with that.

 

As far as entitlement goes, I do not think you understand that you have a higher sense of entitlement then someone lets say from a poor urban community. Entitlement is the reason you have been successful. If anything we do need more entitlement in out society.

Edited by scintrigue
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So this socialism drive by you is fueled by your frustration that you've had it harder than others to pay for college and are afraid you might not have health care? Here's the difference between me and you SCINTRIGUE. I don't count on other people to provide things for me. I do it myself. The thought process that I should pay 5-10% more so that you have an easier life is not something I'm interested in. I am on the road, away from my family 215 days a year. I miss family functions, T ball games, ND events etc. I work every single holiday. I take educated risks to reap rewards. I work 15 hour days. I make the sacrafices. I do all of that because it provides me with the life I want to live. For that reason, YOU have no RIGHT to a dime of my money. Harsh? Maybe. But if you don't like your situation....work harder. The answer in this country has always been to work harder. That is why we are the most productive country in the world. The answer is NOT to create a culture of entitlement. If you haven't earned it, you don't deserve it. It really IS that simple.

 

Very well said!

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You playing the "I work harder then you card" does not really hold up. I owned 2 houses before I was 21, I run my own business and am going to school right now for my doctrate degree.

 

You don't have to worry about paying for me, i'll get mine. But education is the single most important thing to spur innovation, a better economy, lower crime rates, lower abortion rates, healthier people, ect. ect. I could go on for days. You pay a lot in taxes right now and higher costs in things like insurance because of the lack of higher education in our society. So the goal would be that yes you would pay 5-10% more in taxes for everyone to have an opportunity for higher education, but it should equal out with a better society as a whole.

 

And you should stop with the me, me, me stuff. You were not born more special then anyone else. You were not blessed with any different inante abilities then the next person. You had people that helped you along the way, you were blessed with that.

 

As far as entitlement goes, I do not think you understand that you have a higher sense of entitlement then someone lets say from a poor urban community. Entitlement is the reason you have been successful. If anything we do need more entitlement in out society.

 

I disagree with every single word of this post and, frankly, am tired of going around in circles. If you take my post as me gloating about things by my emphasis on "I" instead of seeing that it points out that nobody else has a right to the money I earn then you simply just don't get it. If you can honestly say, with a straight face, that it is beneficial to reward people who do not contribute with funds from those who do...then you just don't get it. I tell you what...instead of ranting about this socialism BS....why don't you just give all of your money to the poor so that you can feel better about yourself? Don't make the decision for where MY money goes.

 

I never said I was born more special than anyone else. I do refuse to SUPPORT people who make chronically poor decisions. Again, you work your ass off and then give it away to appease yourself.

 

As for your idealistic view about education, we have been giving benefits, preference, financial aid, books, and now free lunch for DECADES and where has it gotten us? Education IS the key, but we cannot force people to take advantage of opportunities. Likewise, we cannot support people who fail to do so. I am mystified how you managed to miss the point of that post ENTIRELY.

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I disagree with every single word of this post and, frankly, am tired of going around in circles. If you take my post as me gloating about things by my emphasis on "I" instead of seeing that it points out that nobody else has a right to the money I earn then you simply just don't get it. If you can honestly say, with a straight face, that it is beneficial to reward people who do not contribute with funds from those who do...then you just don't get it. I tell you what...instead of ranting about this socialism BS....why don't you just give all of your money to the poor so that you can feel better about yourself? Don't make the decision for where MY money goes.

I never said I was born more special than anyone else. I do refuse to SUPPORT people who make chronically poor decisions. Again, you work your ass off and then give it away to appease yourself.

 

As for your idealistic view about education, we have been giving benefits, preference, financial aid, books, and now free lunch for DECADES and where has it gotten us? Education IS the key, but we cannot force people to take advantage of opportunities. Likewise, we cannot support people who fail to do so. I am mystified how you managed to miss the point of that post ENTIRELY.

 

1. This is a common arguement and it might work with welfare or something, but I fail to see the logic in this type of statement in our current conversation.

 

2. And we should not force people to take advantage of opportunities. But should provide them with an opportunity.

 

Again you cannot pull up your boot straps if you got no boots to begin with.

 

You might have disagreed with everything I said in the previous post, but there was not fallacy to it. Especcially the entitlement part which is a common misconception of the word. And how can you disagree that you do not pay more money because of the lack of higher education in this country?

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1. This is a common arguement and it might work with welfare or something, but I fail to see the logic in this type of statement in our current conversation.

 

2. And we should not force people to take advantage of opportunities. But should provide them with an opportunity.

 

Again you cannot pull up your boot straps if you got no boots to begin with.

 

You might have disagreed with everything I said in the previous post, but there was not fallacy to it. Especcially the entitlement part which is a common misconception of the word. And how can you disagree that you do not pay more money because of the lack of higher education in this country?

 

Ok, I find the bootstrap throw away line trite. Here, i have one for you. The constitution guarantees us a right to the pursuit of happiness, the trick is, you have to catch it for yourself.

 

two, how in the hell do you get to the conclusion that there is a lack of higher education in this country? The USA is the PRIMARY destination for higher education students.

 

SC, In all sincerity, i think you confuse your best hopes and instincts with rules which apply to other people. moral obligations are not legal obligations. we must have respect for individual decisions.

 

as much as you, me, anyone, might want to see people get the most from their lives, it is simply up to us to do it, not to impose those morals on others.

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Ok, I find the bootstrap throw away line trite. Here, i have one for you. The constitution guarantees us a right to the pursuit of happiness, the trick is, you have to catch it for yourself.

 

two, how in the hell do you get to the conclusion that there is a lack of higher education in this country? The USA is the PRIMARY destination for higher education students.

 

SC, In all sincerity, i think you confuse your best hopes and instincts with rules which apply to other people. moral obligations are not legal obligations. we must have respect for individual decisions.

 

as much as you, me, anyone, might want to see people get the most from their lives, it is simply up to us to do it, not to impose those morals on others.

 

I agree with most you said. And yes our higher education is the best in the world. Unfortunatly 70% of the workforce does not have a bachlors degree. And again I am not saying that a person should goto school if they dont want to. It is not just a moral obligation it is a benefit for the country. I do not see how it is a horrible thing to pay a little more in taxes for the benefit of the entire nation. I really dont. I cannot see how a higher educated society is such a bad thing. It will only benefit everyone.

 

With health care I have differant beliefs. Yes everyone should have access to health care. How do you pay for it is where I differ from some. Now to conservatives you may view taxing soda and fast food as a bad thing. I see nothing bad about it. Obesity is the reason our health care is so expensive as is. So people that choose to force me to pay more money for health insurance need to pay for mine! Again I see nothing wrong with this. Conservatives love to talk about how they hate paying for other peoples education ect. While mowing down on that poison from Mickey D's and raising my health insurance rates.

 

People need to stop looking at things individually and start looking at everything on a cost/benefit analysis.

 

Edit: I did not mean that just conservatives eat Mcdonalds. Just making a point on the hyprocracy of some. IE fat ass rush limbaugh.

Edited by scintrigue
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I agree with most you said. And yes our higher education is the best in the world. Unfortunatly 70% of the workforce does not have a bachlors degree. And again I am not saying that a person should goto school if they dont want to. It is not just a moral obligation it is a benefit for the country. I do not see how it is a horrible thing to pay a little more in taxes for the benefit of the entire nation. I really dont. I cannot see how a higher educated society is such a bad thing. It will only benefit everyone.

 

With health care I have differant beliefs. Yes everyone should have access to health care. How do you pay for it is where I differ from some. Now to conservatives you may view taxing soda and fast food as a bad thing. I see nothing bad about it. Obesity is the reason our health care is so expensive as is. So people that choose to force me to pay more money for health insurance need to pay for mine! Again I see nothing wrong with this. Conservatives love to talk about how they hate paying for other peoples education ect. While mowing down on that poison from Mickey D's and raising my health insurance rates.

 

People need to stop looking at things individually and start looking at everything on a cost/benefit analysis.

 

Edit: I did not mean that just conservatives eat Mcdonalds. Just making a point on the hyprocracy of some. IE fat ass rush limbaugh.

 

this is going to be long, but i am going to start by saying that i found what you just wrote... frankly, dangerous. you are idealistic, and from what i can tell, you have very good ideals. but that is just dangerous. me and about 40% of this country would riot rather than look at things as part of a collective cost benefit analysis. As you see above people work HARD and expect that the fruits of that labor be realized.

 

read that and think about how scary that is? who gets to make that decision on what is an undue cost and what is a valid benefit? who do you get to protest to if your house is deemed too big or too nice? will the commissar move another family in?

 

Should we institute public exercise times? how about communal dinning so we can prevent obesity since it costs us so much?

 

regarding your interest in paying a little more for health care or education... by all means, DO IT. set aside your money and contribute to the wide array of PRIVATE scholarship groups or PRIVATE charitable hospitals. they are truly doing God's work.

 

Re: Healthcare. What standard of care would you insist upon? who would decide what is covered and what is not, (hip transplant for a 55 year old?, liver transplant for an alcoholic?, gastric bypass for the obese?)? how much of the budget should we devote to our own health-care?

 

I would actually support a system of clincs or public hospitals where anyone could go in and receive the basics, at a bare minimum of charge. but there must be no illusion propigated that people are getting something for nothing. if you recieve the service of a doctor or nurse, that is a legitimate expense.

 

please answer this.

 

WHY do you believe that you (not you, the royal you) have the right to take what is mine; to make the decision about how much of what i have rightfully earned, that i deserve to keep?

 

why, if you believe in this sense of equality of birth. do you begrudge those whom by birth or effort or simple good fortune end up with more than others?

 

and why do you believe that some citizens should be subject to greater taxation in both absolute value and percentage of their income?

 

 

I apologize for they style, i ask alot of questions... i come from the Socratic school...i give you a hard time but i respect that you seem to want good things for people. i just think that your conclusions are incorrect.

 

I want you to realize what goes through my head when i extrapolate from what you are willing to do, to what you would force upon others and i want in some way for you to identify with how uncomfortable that makes me, and those who think like me.

Edited by jon33dn
gramar and speling ;)
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this is going to be long, but i am going to start by saying that i found what you just wrote... frankly, dangerous. you are idealistic, and from what i can tell, you have very good ideals. but that is just dangerous. me and about 40% of this country would riot rather than look at things as part of a collective cost benefit analysis. As you see above people work HARD and expect that the fruits of that labor be realized.

 

read that and think about how scary that is? who gets to make that decision on what is an undue cost and what is a valid benefit? who do you get to protest to if your house is deemed too big or too nice? will the commissar move another family in?

 

Should we institute public exercise times? how about communal dinning so we can prevent obesity since it costs us so much?

 

regarding your interest in paying a little more for health care or education... by all means, DO IT. set aside your money and contribute to the wide array of PRIVATE scholarship groups or PRIVATE charitable hospitals. they are truly doing God's work.

 

Re: Healthcare. What standard of care would you insist upon? who would decide what is covered and what is not, (hip transplant for a 55 year old?, liver transplant for an alcoholic?, gastric bypass for the obese?)? how much of the budget should we devote to our own health-care?

 

I would actually support a system of clincs or public hospitals where anyone could go in and receive the basics, at a bare minimum of charge. but there must be no illusion propigated that people are getting something for nothing. if you recieve the service of a doctor or nurse, that is a legitimate expense.

 

please answer this.

 

WHY do you believe that you (not you, the royal you) have the right to take what is mine; to make the decision about how much of what i have rightfully earned, that i deserve to keep?

 

why, if you believe in this sense of equality of birth. do you begrudge those whom by birth or effort or simple good fortune end up with more than others?

 

and why do you believe that some citizens should be subject to greater taxation in both absolute value and percentage of their income?

 

I apologize for they style, i ask alot of questions... i come from the Socratic school...i give you a hard time but i respect that you seem to want good things for people. i just think that your conclusions are incorrect.

 

I want you to realize what goes through my head when i extrapolate from what you are willing to do, to what you would force upon others and i want in some way for you to identify with how uncomfortable that makes me, and those who think like me.

 

I laid out specific things that should be done. You took that as me saying that if this is done, then also other things will be done. No, I did not bestow a whole new philosophy of things. These things are already being done. Reagan was the first to raise gasoline taxes and cigarettes to significant percentages. It is already being done, people taking what you have earned on so many levels. I do not understand how I am an anomoly stating that the health care system and education system needs some bold new changes. When me and you are getting hosed for shit that won't benefit us in anyway, not to mention to go back to the triple-bypass surgery your paying for that already!!!! Your paying $1000.00 on average for people that goto the emergency room with no health insurance in taxes. Yes I do think collectively absolutly, and many would say I am a patriot for that. My thinking is benefiting America as a whole, while some of your beliefs suggest benefiting yourself as one.

 

Edit. Sorry I did not answer these questions. There simple really.

 

1. I said that people do not have inante abilities that give them a hard-workers edge or whatever. I was making the reference that your enviroment determines a lot of what you become. So yes, as far as education goes someone who is poor should have the same right to aquire a decent education as someone who grew up in a wealthy family.

 

2. I never said someone should be taxed a higher percentage, you assumed. But okay, that has to do more with the standard of living of the country. Also, if your making the big bucks you should be happy that your paying the 35% or whatever it is right now instead of the 80-90% you would have been paying pre-1980's.

Edited by scintrigue
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well comrade... I am not really satisfied by those answers.

 

so you are right, alot is determined by your surroundings... and that boils down to the fact that life is not fair. The right to an education is not the same as "an education". you cannot make people get educated. Some people are born smarter, faster, prettier, than others... d'ems da breaks...

Some people are smart enough to value their childs education, some aren't.

in my opinion, the only kids who the US should be in charge of educating are the wards of the state.

 

and #2, you are going to have to forgive me for not "being happy" about how much of my own money the government deigns to let me keep. im sorry, but i find that point of view really disturbing.

 

How much of my income do you believe you (again, the royal you) are entitled to?

 

Would you suggest that i bring my standard of living down? would you enforce that?

 

When do i get the right to say no? that is more than i want to give? do you care if i say no?

Edited by jon33dn
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