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Obamacare vs. the U.S. Constitution


NDFan4Life
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And the final thing i will say on this is

 

I pray you don't get horribly or sick or disabled

and lose everything you've worked so hard to get

because you can't afford the treatments, etc.

necessary to save your life.

 

If Obama has his way, I probably will do just that - lose everything I worked so hard to get. And the wait in line for any illness will be so long I'll die waiting or a bureaucratic government death panel will say "he's too old to keep him alive" and I won't be treated anyway.

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If Obama has his way, I probably will do just that - lose everything I worked so hard to get. And the wait in line for any illness will be so long I'll die waiting or a bureaucratic government death panel will say "he's too old to keep him alive" and I won't be treated anyway.

 

 

you can't really believe in that death panel myth, surely?

No one is that gullible.

 

But people today are deciding the same thing themselves. they can't afford the cancer treatments, so they are going to die. And that's not based on same myth created by the insurance companies (as yours most surely is) but an actual fact.

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you can't really believe in that death panel myth, surely?

No one is that gullible.

 

But people today are deciding the same thing themselves. they can't afford the cancer treatments, so they are going to die. And that's not based on same myth created by the insurance companies (as yours most surely is) but an actual fact.

 

It's in the bill. Read it.

 

I thought you promised your last word a few posts ago. LOL!

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It's not in the bill and i have read it. Yes, I was going to be through with this, but I cannot let stand these constant fallacies being promulgated as fact.

 

You say you don't want a death panel deciding if you live or die. Insurance companies do that on a daily basis. It's what actuaries do. My son is one. But he quit because he couldn't take it or did not wish to be a part of it. They calculate your chances of getting better versus the cost of keeping you alive. And if it's too expensive, they deny your coverage.

Simple as that.

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You say you don't want a death panel deciding if you live or die. Insurance companies do that on a daily basis.

 

Yeah, but I have a choice which insurance company. When the gubmint takes over health care, I won't.

So it's called a death panel when insurance companies are involved in this but not death panels when the gubmint gets involved in counseling and end of life decisions?

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Actually, all the healthcare plans that have been presented do indeed contain provisions for choice in insurance companies. Some contain a government option, but it's only one option.

 

Everyone knows that the so-called, only one government option, is a Trojan Horse where the government will eventually take over health care 100% with what Obama says he is for, "a single-payer system" - which effectively will drive private insurance companies out of business. No private company can compete with the government on a level playing field. The government can be inefficient and have cost overruns because it has an unlimited supply of taxpayer dollars and will effectively put everyone else out of business.

 

Even John Kerry admits this:

 

John Kerry admits single-payer will run private insurance companies out of business

“I’m personally for single payer,” Kerry told Single Payer Action.

“But we don’t have the votes.”

But if you fought for single payer, wouldn’t you have the votes?

“No,” Kerry said. “Some people are unpersuadable on the topic. They are ideologically in a different places and we don’t have the votes.”

Just admit it, Senator Kerry, single payer would put the insurance companies out of business.

“Yes it would,” Kerry admits as he gets on the elevator at the National Press Building.

And that’s the reason why you don’t have the votes.

“You make that determination,” Kerry said.

Instead of taking single payer to the American people, explaining that much of the world has what we don’t have, and fighting and defeating the insurance industry, Kerry and liberal Democrats keep repeating the mantra — we don’t have the votes.

Nor do they have the votes for a strong public option — or maybe any public option.

It’s a defeatist attitude that is bound to condemn 60 Americans to death every day from lack of health insurance.

 

 

And good ol' Barney Frank admits that such a public plan will lead to a government takeover of health care:

 

Barney Frank: Yes, a public plan will lead to a government takeover of health care.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/30/barney-frank-yes-a-public-plan-will-lead-to-a-government-takeover-of-health-care/comment-page-1/

 

Obama explains how his plan will eventually lead to the elimination of private health care plans:

http://www.breitbart.tv/uncovered-video-obama-explains-how-his-health-care-plan-will-eliminate-private-insurance/

Edited by RockneDrive
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you don't like socialism? So I take it you will be sending back your social security check when you retire. And of course, if you happen to get or be unemployed, you'll refuse your unemployment check. And of course there's medicare and medicaid that you won't be using when you're older. Not to mention food stamps, welfare, etc..If you don't think we already have many social programs in this country, you are sadly mistaken. What we have in this country is a mix of capitalism and socialism. The question is, what is the proper mix.

It's interesting that you bring up Margaret Thatcher as England has socialized medicine. As does every other major western "free" country in the world. And let's be honest here, there are already social controls in the medical profession. You have to have a degree to practice it. You can't just decide tomorrow that you will hang out a shingle and start writing scripts. Then there are all the regulations as far as what you can and can't do and all the testing that pharmaceuticals have to go through. These are all programs implemented for "social" reasons. If this were pure capitalism, I could claim these cool placebo pills will cure your cancer, heal your broken heart, and clear up that nasty genital rash.

I am all for capitalism in most things. Competition and survival of the fittest are economically sound principles. With most things, if you don't care for the prices, you can not buy it. Buy something cheaper. But health care is not optional. Currently, there are people in this country who are dying for basic healthcare, but cannot pay for it.

I know this for a fact. I know pelople whoa re making these choices.

This is unacceptable.

 

when you pick up your mail in the morning, (Tuesday morning as tomorrow is a governmental holiday-ahaha) remember that the mail service is also a "social" program.

 

me

 

 

You forgot to mention police and fire....but seriously there is a role for government in maintaining law, order, building for roads, etc. stuff that was outlined in the Constitution. Just because conservatives believe in less government doesn't believe they don't believe in government. The FDIC for instance was a good government program that stabilized banks.

 

I have personally declined unemployment when I was laid off but even if we accept some payments what is wrong with that? We've already paid into the system and that is the problem; people being forced to pay into government programs that always end up in debt. We HAVE to pay into SS why should not collect on it? I'd rather not be taxed for this and invest my money somewhere else where I would get a bigger return. Some say that there is a possibility of losing it and so what? That is the risk some of us are willing to take because the markets will almost always (if not always)give you a better return on your money than the government/

 

The problem comes in forcing individuals to pay for higher taxes in order to provide for the rest who can't/don't have insurance. Isn't that what Medicaid is for? And there is a tired old line about people dying because they have no health insurance but I have never seen or heard of a doctor refuse necessary services for someone that doesn't have insurance. It's a left wing talking point nothing more. 60 a day die? What's your source? In fact, I've seen bums in here in San Diego receive cardiac care in the cath lab. All they have to do is walk in to the ER, say they have chest pains, and they're in.

 

Lots of claims going out there but at least Rocknedrive provided some sources. I'd like to see some credible sources on how Reagan was a socialist/what circles was he considered a socialist, and how 60 Americans die every day because they have no insurance.

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It’s a defeatist attitude that is bound to condemn 60 Americans to death every day from lack of health insurance.

 

 

all you need to know, really.

 

Source?

 

Ridiculous. There is no way to know this and it's a myth that people are dying because they don't have health insurance.

 

Here is something I wrote last year:

 

Health Insurance vs Health Scare

 

Supporters of socialized health care are claiming that there are 47 million Americans who are uninsured. Where this number comes from is questionable but assume it's true. There is a big difference between the number of people with no insurance and the number of people who get no health care.

 

It has been reported in the news that of the 47 million uninsured Americans, the vast majority fall into three categories:

 

1. Illegal Aliens

2. Folks making at or above $80,000 who choose not to have health insurance.

3. Low-income folks who do not have health insurance but who nevertheless receive free health benefits such as from Medicaid and other government payments.

 

The folks who support socialized medicine try and confuse everyone into believing that 47 million people don't get health care. This is untrue. Every person listed above receives health care but they don't have health insurance.

 

So the entire debate is based upon a false premise that millions of folks don't receive health care because they are uninsured. And the democrats and Obama want everyone to believe that there are droves of people dying because they recieve no health care. This is a disingenuous and deceptive attempt by Obama and his minions to obtain more government control over our lives and has little to do with providing health services to people who need it.

 

This is Health Scare.

 

In summary, this scare tactic is being used by liberals, Obama, and the democrat congress who would have everyone believe that people are dying in droves just because they don't have health insurance. This is nonsense. We don't need a government plan that will drive out all private competition because of an unending supply of our taxpayer money. Then the entire medical system will be run like the Dept. of Motor vehicles or the VA Hospital (I know, I'm a veteran) which will lead to loss of choice, massive red tape, extremely long waiting times for critical testing and surgery, rationing of health care where the elderly are left behind because of cost/benefit will divert funds to younger, healthier people, and good doctors will choose other professions because their salaries will be capped and we will have "C" students doing surgery on us. All of this has been documented and we just have to look it up to see what other countries with government-run healthcare are like.

Government is the problem, not the solution.

 

We can reform health care without the aid of bureaucrats and put in place market-based solutions which will encourage competition, provide better service and lower health care costs.

Yes we need reform but the government needs to keep its stinking nose out of the process because everyone knows what will happen when the only choice any of us will have is the government – one size fits all – no other choice!

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Here's some interesting facts about healthcare costs and insurance-

 

http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/hiddencosts/index.html

 

 

That lower income people pay more for health care as a percentage of their income than higher income earners is not a huge news story. Obviously!! Duh.

 

So should the solution be to steal by coercive government power from those with higher incomes and give it to the lower income wage earners? That's essentially what our socialist-in-chief is proposing to do.

 

Or perhaps those folks on the lower end of the income scale could go back to night school to learn a trade or profession to increase their salary and better their lives. That is the way it should be, not confiscating wealthier folks' hard-earned salary. Many people at the lower end of the income scale made a decision that school was not fun and they chose to quit school or not pursue a higher education. There are consequences to making bad decisions. Why should I or any other taxpayer pay for those poor choices? Health insurance is not a right.

Edited by RockneDrive
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This has been an interesting read. So far we have Obama is not a socialist but Reagan was, 60 people dying each day because they lack health insurance, the recession is over due to the stimulus, and the healthcare bill submitted has a plan that enables us to choose insurance options but one option we won't have is to decline it.

 

There has to be a punch line somewhere.

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This has been an interesting read. So far we have Obama is not a socialist but Reagan was, 60 people dying each day because they lack health insurance, the recession is over due to the stimulus, and the healthcare bill submitted has a plan that enables us to choose insurance options but one option we won't have is to decline it.

 

There has to be a punch line somewhere.

 

:flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig:

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