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  1. While I get using draft capital as a measure, I think it's pretty flimsy. Of all the QB's drafted at the other schools you've mentioned, only three of them have made a meaningful impact (if you consider Baker and Kyler as making an impact, which is arguably a stretch). That's not to say there are valid arguments to be made about those programs and the impact their QB's have made on the field, I just think drawing from their actual collegiate production would be a more direct path to supporting the argument.
  2. If you're looking to talk about QB's at ND (or other schools) beyond ND's '23 recruiting effort, you should make a thread for it. If you label the title appropriately, I'm sure you'll get good engagement from the members of this community who have opinions to offer on it.
  3. I'm going to take a shot in the dark that you'd recommend changing our combination of coaching and scheme? ND has remained largely consistent in Kelly's tenure with about 150 QBR. Clemson and Alabama did not outpace before 2018 when both experienced sudden, significant upticks in QBR. Clemson's may be due to coaching/scheme but it also coincided with Trevor Lawrence, so it's possible it had something to do with that (Dabo had highly rated recruits prior to him that were also given their shot in the nfl but none of them threw up Trevor-esque QBR). Bama, on the other hand, has managed this with at least three QB's. Additionally, they've had A) a change in OC's and B) changes in scheme, shifting from a largely power O to more passing-based offense. So, sure, a change in coaching/scheme may flip the offense and should definitely be a focal point. But, we shouldn't be suggesting A) that the blue-bloods have all been throwing up heisman'esque seasons for the last 10 years and/or B) that any of these programs have been chock-full of can't-miss talent. Between OSU, Clemson, Bama and Oklahoma, they have put two starting-worthy QB's in the NFL in, what, the past 20 years? And, calling Baker starting-worthy is a streeeeetch. I think scheme and WR are the final two pieces for these teams. We have Mac Jones-caliber talent in our pipeline.
  4. Agreed, this is a great topic. I struggled with the initial question (had to count up the positions like 5 times) and couldn't realize why. After reading the comments, I realized it's because, in my haste, I was conflating 3-5-3 with 3-3-5. I don't see this as simply a 3-4 with a secondary player pushed up. But, I suppose your interpretation will depend on what you consider JOK. Clearly, the NFL is still trying to figure out what to call a "heavy safety" that plays up against the line. In college, I suppose it's easy enough to call him an LB but the fact is that his size and, more importantly, his responsibilities are a lot different than a traditional LB's, even WLB's in a 3-4. I think this is where you continue to see the EA-Gaming happening at the collegiate level out-pacing pro ball - these 3-5-3'ish, defenses take what have been unicorn novelties in the NFL (e.g., Belicheck's SB Run-n-Gun D scheme) and make them a go-to defense. Frankly, it's been long overdue given the prevalence of spread-option/wildcat offenses the past 10-20 years. Those offenses change the offense to the point to where traditional run defenses are just not applicable, IMHO.
  5. For me, it would be Kelly, hands-down, for the simple fact that for any headliners that Weis recruited, his track record of translating stars to performance was worse than Kelly's, IMO. Now, an argument can be made that Weis recruited the talent and either wasn't able to develop it, had a scheme that stifled it or didn't have time to develop it. IMO, those are largely theoretical exercises that I'm not going to try to account for. Recognizing that blue-chip-rich teams are positioned to compete for championships, at the end of the day stars don't matter much; at least not compared to the on-the-field product. I want to be clear, I'm not trying to engage the larger discussion of what proves or disproves how good/lousy Kelly truly is as a recruiter. I'm just answering this one question because, IMO, Weis was more focused on marketing the 'decided schematic advantage' of his recruiting prowess than he was turning those stars into a decided performance advantage. FWIW, the other post about his 4-sh!t recruiting in the trenches was spot-on and is relevant in this topic as well, even if it isn't central to it. ...the cupboard on both sides of the line was embarrassingly bare when he got 86'd. Almost as bad as what Ty left behind, which is saying something.
  6. Which schools are those? I don't see a pattern emerging.
  7. This was the concern with the last member of the staff we pulled from Tennessee and he ended up doing a decent job on the recruiting trail.
  8. No, you're confusing Recruiting Coordinator with a position/side-of-the-ball recruiter. A coordinator handles all of the organization and structuring around the recruiting program. ...Official Visits, academic eligibility, etc. In addition, Elston would also be responsible for recruiting his position group. In addition to that, ND (and most other programs) assign regions to each Coordinator/Assistant that is a geographic area of focus, in which they establish contacts with talent pipelines and support position coaches that recruit from there in a given cycle. In that final area, Elston may cross paths with offensive recruiting but he would not do so as a recruiting coordinator (other than the bureaucratic aspects of recruiting).
  9. It's not like Kelly and Co. haven't demonstrated the ability to recruit positions like Dline at this level ('11 for example). I think what we'll need to see is A) whether or not we can string together multiple years, B) we can recruit more than the 3-5 5*'s and C) we can recruit deep talent on both sides of the ball, across all position groups. The early returns on Freeman are promising and there's a valid question about whether or not that reflects an effort/aspiration issue in prior coaching groups. However, the questions I have won't be answered for 2-3 seasons.
  10. Just watched a bit of film since this is the first I've heard of him. We got a good one. Way to go staff (and congrats to keeley).
  11. Man, am I glad I didn't use this opportunity to waste more of my time tracking down the fallacy in the outrageous claims being made in December of last year. From a partisan report on The November 2020 Election in Michigan:
  12. To me, the most noteworthy part of this is that OL's in college are choosing us to raise their draft stock. Between beating LSU for Freeman and, reportedly, beating FSU for a high-profile grad transfer, ND is clearly muscling itself further into legitimacy.
  13. I went to High School with Mike Rosenthal. He was the same way. Mammoth and somehow slim at the same time. Hopefully Ty's career plays out the same way.
  14. All of these teams have 5-stars that don't pan out (We just had a former 5-star safety from OSU join us last year after an unremarkable career there). Additionally, we have young kids that earn playing time every year (hamilton, tyree, mayer, etc.). Anecdotally, I would share a concern that we're not A) getting enough 5stars and B) not getting enough of them to produce. But, I would dispute that ND is someone is a major outlier amongst blue-chips when it comes to this.
  15. JOK is going to buy some unwitting GM another year or two of work. Him falling out of the first can be chalked up solely to a lack of vision. He was hands down the best LB in the class and arguably in the running for the top defender but got pigeon-holed as a 'large safety/undersized lb' instead of "guy that sits on the field and makes plays and gives defense increased adaptability'. Tyrann Mathieu and Russell Wilson are two guys that were similarly pigeon-holed and I'm of the belief that JOK's impact will land somewhere between them. The lines get pretty blurry between him and Roquan Smith who has been productive at the NFL and wasn't similarly pigeon-holed (likely because he was less dynamic in coverage and thus, less easily labelled as a big safety). I'd say smith may be a bit better in the box while JOK is more electric and certainly better in coverage. Hopefully someone belicheck'ian nabs him in the next round and correctly deploys him as the Joker he is (Will early downs and Nickel LB/Dime Safety on passing downs). He's a great puzzle piece that you can just leave on the field regardless of the opponents formation, IMHO.
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