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  #26  
Old 07-22-2012, 07:39 PM
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Some of the rumors seem to point towards a crippling amount of scholly reductions and a multiple-year bowl ban. Schadd tweeted that a 3-year ban would be "crippling." Pardon my naivete, but why is that additional 3rd year considered so much worse than a 2-year ban? Is it because only the current freshman class and future classes would be able to compete in a bowl?

Someone who knows more about this stuff, please educate me.
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  #27  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:39 PM
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First, if they're gearing up for a national championship run, these allegations would have done nothing to affect that year. It would have affected the team 3 or 4 years down the road when recruits actually find playing time (unless you a post-Tyrone ND Team, where there are no bodies in the Junior or Senior classes, so you have to see the field out of necessity as a freshman.)

Second, when was the last time you saw a school get punished for creating a competitive advantage by way of hiring or firing a coach? "Protecting a football program as a competitive advantage" is such a tenuous argument in this case made by emotional people acting like lynch mobs in the pre-civil rights South. Good job. You're lynching a program that gained no competitive advantage according to NCAA bylaws, yet you're allowing a governing body to punish a school where that body has no jurisdiction. Glad we live in America... Seems a lot more like North Korea. Sure... Do whatever you want. It's ok. Rules don't apply to the NCAA.

This is a publicity stunt by an NCAA organization that refuses to do dish out any real punishments to cheaters. Now, it's cherry-picking to curry public favor when we all know it's scary similarity to the UN and its refusal to do anything worth a damn is the nature of the beast.

Here's a simple question: On this issue alone, would you label PSU "cheaters" on first blush. Does covering up a coach molesting little kids make you say that school cheats? No. It makes you say that school is evil, yes; but does it cheat in football (when you look solely at this issue)? No.. Not at all. F the NCAA and every other lynch mobber out there who refuses to let the American court system provide rightful justice to these pricks while keeping the NCAA out of a place where it has no jurisdiction. F'ing political stunts...
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  #28  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishwavend View Post
First, if they're gearing up for a national championship run, these allegations would have done nothing to affect that year. It would have affected the team 3 or 4 years down the road when recruits actually find playing time (unless you a post-Tyrone ND Team, where there are no bodies in the Junior or Senior classes, so you have to see the field out of necessity as a freshman.)

Second, when was the last time you saw a school get punished for creating a competitive advantage by way of hiring or firing a coach? "Protecting a football program as a competitive advantage" is such a tenuous argument in this case made by emotional people acting like lynch mobs in the pre-civil rights South. Good job. You're lynching a program that gained no competitive advantage according to NCAA bylaws, yet you're allowing a governing body to punish a school where that body has no jurisdiction. Glad we live in America... Seems a lot more like North Korea. Sure... Do whatever you want. It's ok. Rules don't apply to the NCAA.

This is a publicity stunt by an NCAA organization that refuses to do dish out any real punishments to cheaters. Now, it's cherry-picking to curry public favor when we all know it's scary similarity to the UN and its refusal to do anything worth a damn is the nature of the beast.

Here's a simple question: On this issue alone, would you label PSU "cheaters" on first blush. Does covering up a coach molesting little kids make you say that school cheats? No. It makes you say that school is evil, yes; but does it cheat in football (when you look solely at this issue)? No.. Not at all. F the NCAA and every other lynch mobber out there who refuses to let the American court system provide rightful justice to these pricks while keeping the NCAA out of a place where it has no jurisdiction. F'ing political stunts...
The Freeh report has multiple quotes from multiple people that they kept Sandusky unreported to "protect the football program". That is what they thought they were doing. Whether the information becoming public or not would have had a negative effect or not isn't up for debate. The fact is, Paterno thought he was protecting the program by covering it up. Maybe there isn't an NCAA bylaw for that specific case, but there are probably a number of things that the NCAA doesn't have bylaws for that they never thought they'd have to deal with, that doesn't mean they can't act on it now.

I understand your argument of a lynch mob mentality, but this story broke over a year ago. The only thing that has changed recently is the amount of people that knew. It isn't like the report came out yesterday, the emotion is fresh and a penalty was made. People knew over a year ago that Paterno knew more than he was leading on.

Sure, the NCAA has possibly acted carelessly in the past on penalties, but they did penalized USC and Ohio St. Miami is likely next, along with North Carolina. It isn't as though they don't act when cheaters are caught.

Finally, firing coaches does have an effect on players and recruits. The lineman from Ohio followed Warriner to Ohio St. when he left last year. Anzalone left Ohio St. when he found out they had a potential sexual predator in touch with players. Those are two similar instances in the past year, one just a position coach and one just a fan/booster. You don't think a major program firing a defensive coordinator for molesting boys in the locker room would have an effect on players attending that school?

You are right, it might not have effected that year, but it would certainly have effects down the road, which is what they were trying to prevent.
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  #29  
Old 07-22-2012, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishwavend View Post
Here's a simple question: On this issue alone, would you label PSU "cheaters" on first blush. Does covering up a coach molesting little kids make you say that school cheats? No. It makes you say that school is evil, yes; but does it cheat in football (when you look solely at this issue)? No.. Not at all. F the NCAA and every other lynch mobber out there who refuses to let the American court system provide rightful justice to these pricks while keeping the NCAA out of a place where it has no jurisdiction. F'ing political stunts...
Yes and immoral sons of bitches...
You seem to be the only taking this road, other than the crazy PSU fans who still want it to be called Paternoville. I am part of the criminal justice system and I despise the court system, the school covered the ordeal and allowed him to recommit a crime because of the football program.

Your argument of them not cheating can be applied to numerous NCAA violations if given the right tone.

Keeping your team from getting a disadvantage by hiding crimes is an advantage in itself. "You can commit crimes here at PSU, we will just cover them up so we dont look bad." Do you realize that if they turned in Sandusky at the time of the crime, this would have blown over in a matter of weeks. "Bad coach at PSU gets arrested... life goes on." Hiding illegal activity is an advantage.

"We pay players/recruits because they come from poor families and need help to stay on campus, its not a competitive advantage." You can spin any NCAA violation if you try hard enough. Paying players has been established though and we are all familiar with it, hiding crimes to protect your program is unprecedented...
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  #30  
Old 07-23-2012, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishwavend View Post
First, if they're gearing up for a national championship run, these allegations would have done nothing to affect that year. It would have affected the team 3 or 4 years down the road when recruits actually find playing time (unless you a post-Tyrone ND Team, where there are no bodies in the Junior or Senior classes, so you have to see the field out of necessity as a freshman.)

Second, when was the last time you saw a school get punished for creating a competitive advantage by way of hiring or firing a coach? "Protecting a football program as a competitive advantage" is such a tenuous argument in this case made by emotional people acting like lynch mobs in the pre-civil rights South. Good job. You're lynching a program that gained no competitive advantage according to NCAA bylaws, yet you're allowing a governing body to punish a school where that body has no jurisdiction. Glad we live in America... Seems a lot more like North Korea. Sure... Do whatever you want. It's ok. Rules don't apply to the NCAA.

This is a publicity stunt by an NCAA organization that refuses to do dish out any real punishments to cheaters. Now, it's cherry-picking to curry public favor when we all know it's scary similarity to the UN and its refusal to do anything worth a damn is the nature of the beast.

Here's a simple question: On this issue alone, would you label PSU "cheaters" on first blush. Does covering up a coach molesting little kids make you say that school cheats? No. It makes you say that school is evil, yes; but does it cheat in football (when you look solely at this issue)? No.. Not at all. F the NCAA and every other lynch mobber out there who refuses to let the American court system provide rightful justice to these pricks while keeping the NCAA out of a place where it has no jurisdiction. F'ing political stunts...
Seriously? You think that it wouldn't influence anything? 18-21 year old kids would be unaffected at learning their D/C molested children? Yeah, sure...whatever you say man...

How about this fact:
In the five years(from 2000-2004) after Sandusky left, Penn State went 26-33, a winning percentage 44%, compared to the years when Sandusky was the DC they went 177-51 and had a winning percentage of 76%
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Last edited by piratey; 07-23-2012 at 12:50 AM.
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  #31  
Old 07-23-2012, 04:58 AM
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"The NCAA is taking unprecedented measures with the decision to penalize Penn State without the due process of a Committee on Infractions hearing.


The NCAA has a system in place in which it conducts its own investigations, issues a notice of allegations and then allows the university 90 days to respond before a hearing is scheduled.


Following the hearing, the Infractions Committee then usually takes a minimum of six weeks, but it can take upwards of a year to issue its findings.


But in the case of Penn State, the NCAA appears to be using the Freeh report -- commissioned by the school's board of trustees -- instead of its own investigation, before handing down sanctions."

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...aa-source-says

So, no due process, no 90 days, and magically this Freeh Report is gospel - not subject to questioning, criticism, or a proper evidentiary challenge... I mean, you'd think the Lord Jesus Christ wrote it himself.

If a board can simply dismiss all forms of due process at its discretion, what's the point???? What's the freaking point???? The NCAA is a sham... I mean, we've known it all along, but they're really reaching new heights, now. I hope PSU sues the **** out of them...
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  #32  
Old 07-23-2012, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishwavend View Post
"The NCAA is taking unprecedented measures with the decision to penalize Penn State without the due process of a Committee on Infractions hearing.


The NCAA has a system in place in which it conducts its own investigations, issues a notice of allegations and then allows the university 90 days to respond before a hearing is scheduled.


Following the hearing, the Infractions Committee then usually takes a minimum of six weeks, but it can take upwards of a year to issue its findings.


But in the case of Penn State, the NCAA appears to be using the Freeh report -- commissioned by the school's board of trustees -- instead of its own investigation, before handing down sanctions."

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...aa-source-says

So, no due process, no 90 days, and magically this Freeh Report is gospel - not subject to questioning, criticism, or a proper evidentiary challenge... I mean, you'd think the Lord Jesus Christ wrote it himself.

If a board can simply dismiss all forms of due process at its discretion, what's the point???? What's the freaking point???? The NCAA is a sham... I mean, we've known it all along, but they're really reaching new heights, now. I hope PSU sues the **** out of them...
From a due process perspective... I totally agree with Wave here.

The NCAA is acting in an arbitrary way, likely to curry favor with public opinion. The NCAA is a total joke. It has multiple issues with corruption at all levels in multiple sports. The NCAA does not tackle the issues for which it does have a process to address violations of its supposed ethics and values. The NCAA wants to jump on this bandwagon as it is easy to do so.

Not endorsing the apparent, imminent NCAA censure does NOT endorse PSU behaviors.

Thankfully to the Freeh Report, commissioned by the PSU Board of Governors, the Saint Paterno Cult can hopefully die its long-deserving death. At least PSU is acting (belatedly) to understand its culpability in a heinous crime all in the name of football and Saint Joe.

Civil suits will follow in short order and the PSU will also be financially crippled to an extent for its willful negligence.

The "best" immediate resolution in my mind is that PSU would sanction and censure itself... severely... in order to destroy the notion that the order of the universe is not "Football, Paterno, God, Country, Family"

I think the NCAA would do well to establish a standard and process for disciplining offending coaches and schools for violations of its stated regulations. The NCAA should require schools accredited by the NCAA to submit to a subpoena process in areas related to its jurisdiction. Ability to ban the coaches and administrators from earning a livelihood in college sports should be a good starting deterrent from violations of agreed regulations.
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  #33  
Old 07-23-2012, 11:37 AM
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this article pretty much sums it up for me...

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-foo...ky-mark-emmert
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  #34  
Old 07-23-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishwavend View Post
"The NCAA is taking unprecedented measures with the decision to penalize Penn State without the due process of a Committee on Infractions hearing.


The NCAA has a system in place in which it conducts its own investigations, issues a notice of allegations and then allows the university 90 days to respond before a hearing is scheduled.


Following the hearing, the Infractions Committee then usually takes a minimum of six weeks, but it can take upwards of a year to issue its findings.


But in the case of Penn State, the NCAA appears to be using the Freeh report -- commissioned by the school's board of trustees -- instead of its own investigation, before handing down sanctions."

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...aa-source-says

So, no due process, no 90 days, and magically this Freeh Report is gospel - not subject to questioning, criticism, or a proper evidentiary challenge... I mean, you'd think the Lord Jesus Christ wrote it himself.

If a board can simply dismiss all forms of due process at its discretion, what's the point???? What's the freaking point???? The NCAA is a sham... I mean, we've known it all along, but they're really reaching new heights, now. I hope PSU sues the **** out of them...
As a person who generally has an opinion on everything, just ask me, I find myself strangely agreeing with the points being rasied on both sides of this issue. Which leads me to wonder why if the reports are accurate, is the PSU BoT's not going to contend or appeal the pending sanctions. Yet they retained the top lawyer in the country for NCAA related infractions matters to review the process. No matter how you look at this situation there are no winners, only losers whether it be the victims, the students, the players and finally the fans. It just bothers me that the university would allow itself to castrated to the degree being discussed for the sake of restoring institutional integrity. As usually the case, there is far more to learn and like all on here, I will be following the internet closely to learn exactly what will in fact be handed down. Much more to come I am sure...
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  #35  
Old 07-23-2012, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishwavend View Post
"The NCAA is taking unprecedented measures with the decision to penalize Penn State without the due process of a Committee on Infractions hearing.


The NCAA has a system in place in which it conducts its own investigations, issues a notice of allegations and then allows the university 90 days to respond before a hearing is scheduled.


Following the hearing, the Infractions Committee then usually takes a minimum of six weeks, but it can take upwards of a year to issue its findings.


But in the case of Penn State, the NCAA appears to be using the Freeh report -- commissioned by the school's board of trustees -- instead of its own investigation, before handing down sanctions."

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...aa-source-says

So, no due process, no 90 days, and magically this Freeh Report is gospel - not subject to questioning, criticism, or a proper evidentiary challenge... I mean, you'd think the Lord Jesus Christ wrote it himself.

If a board can simply dismiss all forms of due process at its discretion, what's the point???? What's the freaking point???? The NCAA is a sham... I mean, we've known it all along, but they're really reaching new heights, now. I hope PSU sues the **** out of them...
I would agree with you if the penalties were based on some random I termed report. However, it appears the NCAA is using the Freeh report, which Penn St commissioned and used a person thy trusted. So if we can't trust that report, why do you think an NCAA run investigation would have any more merit?

Further, he basically just interviewed e eryone the NCAA would interview. Does the whole process need to be do e again just so the NCAA can use their own report?

Essentially it seems all the steps were more or less taken, just not directly by the NCAA.
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Last edited by corysold; 07-23-2012 at 01:26 PM.
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